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#4571386 - 06/10/21 07:36 AM We aim ... but where?  
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Taal Offline
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Taal  Offline
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Poland
Hello

Every now and then I knock an enemy plane out of the sky. But the hit stats are weak ...

A / I would like to ask if you know how far the toe-in is set in WoFF planes?
In order to hit the target accurately, the ballistic curve on which the projectile is flying should cross the pilot's line of sight at a predetermined distance. So if I am closer to the target, the projectile (it still has high muzzle velocity) will hit just below that point. However, when the distance is clearly greater, the falling trajectory of the projectile will make it possible that I will not hit the plane at all (the missile has already lost speed).
The pilots set the toe-in of the weapons according to their own fighting style (closer - further), so that all projectiles hit one point. Is this distance known in WoFF or do we shoot intuitively ?

B / I am happy to hear a n y advice (out of 175 shots fired, 23 hit ... Yes, this is not the master's path, certainly not).

greetings

#4571389 - 06/10/21 09:07 AM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Polovski Offline
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You mean convergence ? Generally around 100m but often you have only 1 or 2 guns so hardly worth bothering with. In WW1 there is a lot of vibration and so on, so the advice is to just get in very close - fill more of your screen with the enemy now you cannot miss.

Use the tracer effect to see where you are shooting. Aim for the engine/pilot and lead where necessary.

Go to the Credits in WOFF main menu, you hear various pilots talking, there's one pilot complaining about his "idiot" observer firing from too far away.

Oh and if you do not have, head tracking makes a lot of difference to getting on the tail and tracking an enemy to keep there.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4571480 - 06/10/21 11:12 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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It should also be helpful if they manage to get dx11 effects in as the the tracers will have some end-on glow effects and will be easier to see.


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4571494 - 06/11/21 07:45 AM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Taal Offline
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Taal  Offline
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Poland
Hello

A / I have put my career aside for now. I focused on the developed quick fights. I attack formations 2-3 R.F. 8 or Sopwith "Strutter".

I applied a patch Effectwithtracers. I am after the first fights. This is obviously not historical truth. However, it allows you to observe the missile's flight and correct the angle of fire.
I'm getting into practice.

B / I think you are right. They just m o u n t e d a machine gun on the plane.
Nobody thought about the rifle of the gun barrel and the pilot's line of sight. That is why they did not use sights - I flew Halberstadt D II, now Fokker D II. Even if the sights were there, they were placed ( probably out of habit ) on the barrel of the weapon ... attached to the side of the plane.
The tactic was just to get close to the target and - shoot! They flooded the enemy with a stream of missiles.

greetings

#4571495 - 06/11/21 07:53 AM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Wodin Offline
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Shame we can't adjust convergence.

#4571505 - 06/11/21 11:09 AM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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kaa Offline
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Did thzy actually set their twin cowling machine guns to a convergence oint when both MGs are 30 cm one from the other ? i thought that was relevant for planes with the armamment in the wings.


"Anyone can shoot you down if you don't see him coming but it takes a wonderfully good Hun to bag a Camel if you're expecting him."
Tom Cundall.
#4571547 - 06/11/21 10:09 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Taal Offline
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Poland

kaa - read carefully what I wrote for the first time in point A.

It's not about the horizontal alignment of machine guns, but the vertical alignment of your gun. The missiles don't fly in a straight line.
If you do not know this distance in advance, you may find that most of your missiles will pass u n d e r the target.

#4571693 - 06/13/21 09:39 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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AlbrechtKaseltzer Offline
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Just be glad you're not flying an early series Nieuport.

#4576700 - 08/06/21 07:08 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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One Post Wonder Offline
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Originally Posted by Taal
B / I am happy to hear a n y advice (out of 175 shots fired, 23 hit ... Yes, this is not the master's path, certainly not).


What IS a normal strike rate? If I had that performance on a mission it would be one of the best I'd ever had.

I'm in a Nieuport 16. Even with high accuracy shooting and unlimited ammo on, a stat like 300 shots fired with 16 hits is not unusual for me and most of my shots are taken from right behind the opponent. I'm almost crashing into the back of the enemy a lot of times, I'm so close. But if I didn't cheat with shooting I would never hit anything. I've actually had more luck when taking deflection shots at a banking opponent, where I can establish a firing point and have them fly into it, than when I'm on their tail.

It might be the way my PC renders them, but I'm suspecting that tracers don't accurately show where the fire is going. When I watch them, it looks like my wingtop gun is pointing slightly downward, so that you'd have to be higher than the target in order to hit it, but trying to walk the tracers onto the target has made my accuracy worse, not better. Before I'd hit 7% of my shots and now I hit 4%. Maybe this is something that throws off new guys.

#4576703 - 08/06/21 07:36 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Burning_Beard Online content
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I think the gun is actually pointed downward so it will cross you aiming point at a given distance (150 to 200 yards is my guess). In real life, it was probably set by the ground crew to the pilots specifications, like the convergence point of wing guns in WWII.


More Scotch and Stogies for my Wingman!
#4576709 - 08/06/21 08:34 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Burning_Beard]  
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One Post Wonder Offline
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That would make sense but if you look at the tracers on an early war Nieuport, the downward angle seems to be a lot sharper than that. I'll have to get a video of it if I can figure that out.

Thinking about it, it might even be related to the track IR view. A lot of times I'll be shooting at something and trying to see over or under my windshield frame to find out where the tracers are. But with TrackIR I might be sitting far higher than pilots were IRL, which would throw off my impression of where the Lewis gun is pointing. I'll have to do some one off missions and practice firing in a less tense situation.

Last edited by One Post Wonder; 08/06/21 08:39 PM.
#4576779 - 08/08/21 11:05 AM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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33lima Offline
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These experiments on dispersal of MG rounds from a Camel-mounted Vickers Gun are interesting (from about 16:40 on):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAktSWz55zY

There's also the story told by an RFC Camel pilot - might have been in 'Into the Blue' by 45 Sqn's Norman Macmillan - of Trenchard visiting the squadron and being impressed by one pilot who had improvised two or three sets of sights for his Vickers. Trenchard invited the pilot to describe how he used the sights, and his enthusiasm was somewhat dampened when the pilot replied, 'Oh, I just point my nose at them and spray.'

Last edited by 33lima; 08/08/21 11:30 AM.

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#4576789 - 08/08/21 03:37 PM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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carrick58 Offline
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I wonder if they even knew of convergence ? while worrying about keeping the guns firing

#4576815 - 08/09/21 03:38 AM Re: We aim ... but where? [Re: Taal]  
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Boom Offline
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Just a suggestion to help you gain a better hit rate.

I'm not a great shot, and found getting directly behind the enemy usually resulted in seeing the bullets fly between the enemies wings. From directly behind the enemy profile is quite small. Best to come at a slight angle, either from slightly above or below. Creates a broader enemy profile. While the time available for shooting will be shorter, the target is actually larger, and provide a better chance of scoring hits - especially on pilot or observer.

My favourite tactic at present is to attack an enemy single seater from the side i.e. offset to one side (at 4-5 or 7-8 o'clock). But rather than turn into them, I just kick rudder and shoot, which lets me keep him in my gun-sight for a reasonable period. But do note there are a couple of shortcomings with this tactic. It can take some manoeuvring to gain an advantageous position (which I'm quite happy to do). A more serious shortcoming is that once applying rudder you create a far amount of drag, and lose speed. If your attack is successful no problem. If not, centre controls and dive away to gain separation before deciding what to do next. smile


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