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#4575791 - 07/29/21 09:26 AM Nieuport 28  
Joined: Jan 2017
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Dryjo Offline
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Dryjo  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 82
Prague, CZ
Hi guys,

do any of you have a good idea how to fight in N - 28? It seems to me, it is not well suited for either boom and zoom or turning dogfight. It climbs relativelly well, but dives badly and the turn is not on par with anything Germans fly against it. Any ideas?


"Per aspera ad astra!"
#4575806 - 07/29/21 12:10 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Dryjo]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 384
Burning_Beard Offline
Member
Burning_Beard  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 384
Red Bluff, CA
Get above your enemy, and peck at him in shallow dives (this requires practice and a lot of cussing). When diving on an enemy much lower than you try to sideslip to avoid ripping off the wing coverings or the bottom wing which are quite fragile, I have practiced these types of maneuvers and have managed to live from the introduction of the US forces to the change over to the Spad XIII, then of course I was jumped by a D VII and was killed.


More Scotch and Stogies for my Wingman!
#4575809 - 07/29/21 12:34 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Dryjo]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Polovski Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Don't forget the N28 is pretty fast too, so keep your speed up so you can extend away depending on the enemy.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4575839 - 07/29/21 02:38 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Burning_Beard]  
Joined: Apr 2013
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Blade_Meister Offline
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Blade_Meister  Offline
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Posts: 2,079
Atlanta, GA, USA
Originally Posted by Burning_Beard
Get above your enemy
This is imperative! Also you have to get very close, until you can see the white of there eyes. Try to come at your foe from a slight angle as opposed to directly behind. Shoot for the engine and the pilot. I would suggest practicing against the enemies your are facing in your Campaign by using the QM generator. The wings are not as fragile as one might think and in the QM you can get a good feel for when your crate is beginning to come apart. She will dive quite steeply and very fast, but your pull out from the dive is key. Easy does it and she will hardly ever shed her wings. This lass likes to be handled with kids gloves when pulling out of a high speed dive, otherwise at normal speeds you can yank her around if desperately needed. As Pol said, when all else fails the Neup 28C1 will dive and run away from most enemies when needed. Sometimes you just have to live to fight another day. She is an awesome little Scout when handled correctly and flown to her advantages. It just takes some stick time to take advantage of her pros and recognize her cons and thereby get the most from her. Good Luck Sir! salute

S!Blade<><

#4575843 - 07/29/21 03:36 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Dryjo]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Rick_Rawlings Offline
Senior Member
Rick_Rawlings  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Dryjo
Hi guys,

do any of you have a good idea how to fight in N - 28? It seems to me, it is not well suited for either boom and zoom or turning dogfight. It climbs relativelly well, but dives badly and the turn is not on par with anything Germans fly against it. Any ideas?


I am currently sharing your struggles:

So...solidarity, if nothing else! It apparently helps to run into a sucky Albatross pilot! thumbsup


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4575866 - 07/29/21 05:39 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Dryjo]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
@OP, best is to take advantage of the N.28's speed (about 205 kph near SL on the version modeled in WOFF) and to stay above opponents. Excessive diving not recommended unless you increase the "robustness" settings in JJJ's excellent MultiMod by a value of "10" or so (there are about four entries for robustness, such as OverG values, wing tip damage, etc.) - keep in mind however that this will most likely make all aircraft in WOFF more robust simultaneously, since I think that those entries work across the board. (I will eventually get to upgrading my WOFF UE/PE FM packs to BHAH.II standards since those packs include a tweaked N.28 that behaves slightly better in dives and also has a slightly improved rate of climb when compared to stock - but I'm still swamped with real work - hopefully I'll find more "tweaking-time" as the summer winds down.)

The other solution is just to stick with the N.27, if possible, via JJJ's MissionEd. biggrin

Cheers all and happy Nieup-ing,
Von S smile2


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4576003 - 07/30/21 06:33 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Dryjo]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Rick_Rawlings Offline
Senior Member
Rick_Rawlings  Offline
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Posts: 3,707
It also apparently helps to fly against Pfalzs...


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4576188 - 08/01/21 02:47 AM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Rick_Rawlings]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,498
Boom Offline
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Boom  Offline
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Posts: 3,498
Culcairn
The Nieuport 28 is an interesting aeroplane.

On first glance it would appear to be a first rate aircraft. Like all Nieuports it was very manoeuvrable, had a good turn of speed, a rapid rate of climb, was armed with two MG and being rotary engined it appeared to be a reliable mount (unlike the Spad XIII's Hispano 8B)

Yet it was plagued by some disturbing design flaws which lead it to be turned down by the French Aviation Militaire.
One was the tendency to shed the upper wing fabric in a dive, traced to the inferior grade of glue used to secure the fabric to the wing frame. Field modifications did much to resolve that problem.
Another being the Gnome 9Nc being prone to catching fire due to leaks in the fuel system. This usually would occur during landings. Being a rotary, pilots would use the blip button to slow the aircraft during approach. However if the pilot forgot to cut his fuel while shutting off the ignition, raw fuel would spill out of the exhaust valves onto the hot engine, with dire results.
And the third was Gnome's rigid fuel lines tendency to crack due to engine vibration, which often resulted in a major conflagration

The newly arrived USAS also wanted the Spad. But given that the Société Pour L'Aviation et ses Dérivés couldn't produce enough for Aviation Militaire use (it's first priority), the Americans bought 297 Nieuport 28.

In it's initial use by the 94th and 95th Pursuit Squadrons, it achieved good results. Given the USAS was new to combat, in May it was allocated to the Toul area, generally considered a 'quite' area. It's opponents were the unremarkable Jasta's 64 and 65, equipped with Albatross and Pfalz fighters. In June the 27th and 147th Pursuit Squadrons joined the 94th and 95th to form the 1st Pursuit Group.
During this period Douglas Campbell, David Peterson and Edward Rickenbacker each made ace, and ten other pilots claimed 14 victories between them. On the loss side 6 pilots were killed (including the great Raoul Lufbery) and two wounded, and 9 additional aircraft lost to accidents. (from J.J. Hudson's excellent Hostile Skies)

On the 29th June the 1st Pursuit Group moved to the Chateau-Thierry on the Marne Front, in response to the German Offensives.Here they were in for a very rude shock, as they would be facing the some of the best German Jasta's, many equipped with the superb Fokker D.VII. Losses were heavy, with 22 pilots killed/POW and three wounded, whilst gaining twelve victories (again from J.J. Hudson's Hostile Skies)
It was in this environment that the combat shortcomings of the Nieuport 28 were driven home.

The positive factor was that from late July transition to the Spad XIII commenced, although not completed for the Group until mid August.

====================================================================================================

And if I may comment on Ricks two excellent vids. The video's certainly shows how the Nieuport 28 outclassed the Pfalz, as proven with the actual USAS experience over the Toul front. And that it was less effective against the Albatross.

But to my mind "tail chasing combat" is the least effective form of fighting, unless one is flying an extremely manoeuvrable fighter eg Camel or Tripe. The best feature of the Nieuport 28 is it's climb rate against all opponents other than the Fokker D.VII. Use that to gain height from an opponent, then short swooping dive to attack and again climb (but pull out smoothly, don't yank). Be patient, position and attack. If the opponent you have selected is waltzing and turning madly, look around for one that isn't.

If fighting against the Fokker D7, don't!. Unless you can gain a height advantage first. In that event dive, shoot and keep going with a long smooth pull out. And hope your wing doesn't disintegrate.

Last edited by PipsPriller; 08/01/21 02:52 AM.

"Somewhere out there is page 6!"
"But Emillo you promised ....... it's postpone"
ASWWIAH Member
#4576191 - 08/01/21 04:14 AM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Boom]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Rick_Rawlings  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by PipsPriller

And if I may comment on Ricks two excellent vids. The video's certainly shows how the Nieuport 28 outclassed the Pfalz, as proven with the actual USAS experience over the Toul front. And that it was less effective against the Albatross.



Thanks! We can also take a look at Rick's excellent almost-losing-his-wing-fabric-in-what-he-thought-was-a fairly-shallow-dive at idle engine settings and blipping here:


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4576235 - 08/01/21 05:19 PM Re: Nieuport 28 [Re: Dryjo]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Rick_Rawlings Offline
Senior Member
Rick_Rawlings  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,707
Also, for anybody well read up on it, did no one ever put even a ring sight on that bad boy? "I know we are in a desperate war and all with the Germans, but I'm just going to eyeball it..."

Here's a link to a panoramic cockpit view if anyone is interested...
https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/10115pjpg
The brass collector obscures even more of your view!

Last edited by Rick_Rawlings; 08/01/21 05:19 PM.

The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...

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