Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
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I could see there were two sets of SimHQ eyes on the issue -- thanks to you (a good thing).
So, I figured I'd just cut and paste copy things so both sets of eyes could see the information. I don't think I'm an expert -- I've just been reading a lot about W11 lately. I'm trying to "save time" for some SimHQ folks by posting the interesting stuff.
The information is so fluid that I really think we'll have to wait for non-speculative clarification. At some point, someone may post an article that clearly states/lists what devices are supported. And, Microsoft may even publish additional clarification. We'll see.
When I started this thread, I did not imagine W11 would become so controversial. I figured it would be an easy upgrade for everyone.
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
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Ohio USA
A minor restatement of the TPM situation -- that adds a bit of information:
Quote
Windows 11 to Ship Without TPM Requirement for 'Special Purpose' Systems
[Microsoft] will allow some systems to ship without the feature enabled. Unfortunately, normal users probably won't have access .. special builds are likely tailored for use in countries that don't use Western encryption technologies, like China and Russia.
Windows 11 requires either a physical TPM key, .. or support for fTPM, excluding a large swath of relatively modern systems
[Microsoft] clarified that Windows 11 would only support the newer [TPM] 2.0 revision [TPM 1.2 does not work].
Enterprising enthusiasts are already finding workarounds to install Windows 11 on systems without TPM support... Still, it is unclear if those techniques will work on shipping versions of the ISO.
A little more info in the attachment (red outline).
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
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Ohio USA
W11 advertises "better gaming". But, there seems to be a catch or two.
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Microsoft DirectStorage Walled Off from Windows 10, Now Needs Windows 11 and DirectX 12 Ultimate GPU
Microsoft's ambitious DirectStorage API, which attempts to solve the storage bottleneck in games, facilitating faster game load times, has been walled off from Windows 10. To use it, games now require the new Windows 11 operating system, and a GPU that supports the DirectX 12 Ultimate API. This limits the GPU choices to NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 20-series, RTX 30-series, and AMD's Radeon RX 6000 series.
The other hardware requirement intrinsic to DirectStorage is for you to use an NVMe SSD that uses Microsoft's "Standard NVM Express Controller" driver that's included with Windows. Another hardware requirement that's baffling is that the SSD should be at least 1 TB in capacity.
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,841
Ohio USA
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Windows 11 is due out this year, but the free update for Windows 10 arrives in 2022
We are still learning new bits of info about Windows 11, and that will likely be the case right up until it begins rolling out to PCs in a few months.
[When W11 is first released] There will still be the option to perform a clean install, and presuming you own a valid Windows 10 license, the same key should activate Windows 11.
If you are not wanting to perform a clean install [i.e. you merely want to "update" your existing W10 install], however, you will have to wait a little bit longer.
[Microsoft comment] " Windows 11 is due out later in 2021 and will be delivered over several months. The rollout of the upgrade to Windows 10 devices already in use today will begin in 2022 through the first half of that year."
So, the W11 news (positive and negative) may not affect a lot of us until "next year".
Allen
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Ohio USA
People upset that the Health Check App we've used the last couple days causes confusion and hopelessness.
Microsoft takes action
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Microsoft temporarily removes Windows 11 Health Check app - will be back before the public release this fall
"The intention of today’s post is to acknowledge and clarify the confusion caused by our PC Health Check tool, share more details as to why we updated the system requirements for Windows 11 and set the path for how we will learn and adjust," Microsoft writes in today's blog post.
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,841
Ohio USA
Regarding W11 compatibility: For what its worth -- my test results with my recent technology AMD CPUs:
All my recent AMD motherboards will run W11. 370 series, 470 series, 550 series, 570 series.
My AMD R5-1600 & R7-1800 CPU do NOT run it.
My R7-2700, R5-3600, R7-3800X, R7-5800X CPUs run W11. I imagine my former R5-5600X on a 550 motherboard would have run it -- but, I've given that system away.
Those results are consistent with recent articles and Microsoft guidance regarding "what works" and what "doesn't work".
I have a question about moving up to Win 11 if I decide to.I have an HP machine I bought in April and the product ID is a factory installed OEM Win 10 version.I seem to remember my previous machine M$ wouldn't accept the Win 7 Product ID because it was a factory installed OS.Can a factory installed HP OS from HP be updated to Win 11?? I'm not sure if I will upgrade maybe after a year or so but heck I'm 72 why even bother ??
I have a question about moving up to Win 11 if I decide to.I have an HP machine I bought in April and the product ID is a factory installed OEM Win 10 version.I seem to remember my previous machine M$ wouldn't accept the Win 7 Product ID because it was a factory installed OS.Can a factory installed HP OS from HP be updated to Win 11?? I'm not sure if I will upgrade maybe after a year or so but heck I'm 72 why even bother ??
I've used OEM PIDs for Windows 7 to install/activate Windows 10, so it does work - though I'm not sure honestly about your specific HP license. One thing to consider: If the HP license was for a different Windows type, then it wouldn't work. For example, if your HP used W7 Home, you couldn't use that PID to activate W10 Pro. Same goes for 32 vs 64 bit versions.
As to whether you should move to W11, I wouldn't - but what they do is force you, by getting to the developers writing code...for example, MSFS 2020 requires W10 (surprise lol). So, unless you're forced, I'd stay put. Windows keeps changing for one reason and one reason only: To make money for Microsoft. Yeah, sure, it was "free"...but anyone with any sense knows better than 'free' in this world. It's 'free' in the same way a heroin dealer often gives out 'free' dope to get people hooked. "Free" like TV and radio are free...(commercials)...I could go on and on...
The problem is people who are too misinformed or just plain lazy to wrap their heads around what they're sacrificing for "free"...they clamor for all this shovel-ware horse dung and line up like lemmings every time another technology producer releases another supposedly 'free' gizmo or app. Often, the people themselves are the commodity that's being marketed....the old saying is that "If you're not paying for the product, then you are the product".
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,841
Ohio USA
Originally Posted by rwatson
I have a question about moving up to Win 11 if I decide to.I have an HP machine I bought in April and the product ID is a factory installed OEM Win 10 version.I seem to remember my previous machine M$ wouldn't accept the Win 7 Product ID because it was a factory installed OS.Can a factory installed HP OS from HP be updated to Win 11?? I'm not sure if I will upgrade maybe after a year or so but heck I'm 72 why even bother ??
I build PCs for fun (7 operational in the house today -- and a few retired ones in the basement). I've used Vista, W7, W8, W10. Here's a FWIW:
Starting with W7, rather than buying a "full price copy", I bought OEM license keys -- presumably like the ones used on prebuilts (like HP).
Reason, cost. OEM keys are cheap -- but, they only apply to one machine.
Those OEM keys allowed the free upgrade (from W7 and W8) to W10 on the same machine. You can change the CPU or the GPU and its still the "same machine". However, change the Motherboard and you need a new key.
I also have used W10 OEM keys for current W10 builds. When I recently checked using Microsoft software, it said those machines (with W10 OEM installed) would get the free W11 upgrade (providing I don't change the Motherboard). However, one does need an up to date system (made in the last 3 years or so) for W11.
Meantime: Should you move to W11? That's not necessary for a few years. One can wait until they make a piece of software one wants that only runs on W11. Moreover, wait until it releases next year and check out the new interface and "teething" issues (reading on-line) -- you may like it -- or not.
A consideration: At 72, if you have no serious health issues today, you're likely to last to late 80s and have a 50/50 chance to hit 90 (they say). Hopefully, you are "on that boat". So, you'll have to procure at least one or two new Computers along the way
Thanks Allen any change to Win 11 will be a couple years away if ever.Things are running well now so no worries been doing the dance since the Dos days and kind of tired of changing over every few years.I will keep an eye on it and see how it works.
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,841
Ohio USA
Windows 10 Home and Professional OEM keys are selling at low prices now -- under $10 in some cases. One can also get cheap keys for full W10 versions that can be used on multiple computers one owns.
So, if one actually needs a working Key to upgrade or to build a new system, now could be a propitious time to buy (though OEM are usually under $20 at regular price -- so $9 is not a big deal in absolute terms).
Thing is I've found that if one "saves" an unused key for a few months, it sometimes doesn't work. So, buy it and use it soon. The legitimate dealers will replace a bad key -- if you get to them soon enough.
I assume since W11 will shortly replace W10, Key prices will remain low -- sellers have to get rid of their stock while W10 still matters.
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,841
Ohio USA
Assembled a high quality HDTV PC using new AMD R5 5600G APU, u-ATX MB, and very good sale-priced components. In a nutshell: Does TV and the APU plays Grim Dawn at 2K (1440p) with mostly ultra settings at 50+ FPS -- usually limits out the 60FPS 2K monitor (100% Max settings was around 30+). In my limited tests, the R5 5600G comes across as an excellent gaming CPU with decent entry-level gaming graphics -- for $259 plus tax.
More relevant to this thread: Needed a new copy of Windows 10 pro. Downloaded it from Microsoft. Bought the key from my favorite supplier (scdKey.com) for a good low price (not necessarily the lowest on-line). The install and activation was painless.
Last edited by Allen; 08/28/2112:41 PM. Reason: Made Performance Statement Clearer
Allen
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,841
Ohio USA
Quote
Microsoft to allow Windows 11 to be installed on older PCs through ISOs, but they might not get updates
According to The Verge, Microsoft is now leaning towards allowing millions of consumer and corporate PCs to be upgraded to Windows 11, despite previously announced hardware limitations.
The Windows 11 will now require a 64-bit processor with at least a 1 GHz clock rate, 4GB of RAM, and 64GB of storage.
this method of bypassing those restrictions will only apply to manually installing Windows through ISO, rather than an upgrade through the Windows Update tool.
Ryzen 1000 series will not be included in the official support list
We'll see if W11 will actually provide significant (to the everyday user) advantages on older hardware.
I *so* hope these yo-yos change their policy about older hardware.
Thanks, Allen, for the leg work to keep us posted BTW would you happen to have a link for that info? Thanks! (I could hunt for it, just being lazy ATM lol)
If you check the "Timeline" column today, you'll see where I "copy/pasted" from yesterday.
Typically, I ignore (for posting here) things that add no verified new information. Lots of speculative articles are not worth the time of "normal" folks -- only worth reading for guys with time on their hands (me)
Yeah...I was not really encouraged much reading more about what Microsoft has said now (or not said, as it were) concerning older CPUs and W11. It looks like now the story is "Well, ok, we'll allow the installation...but we're not going to support it with updates."
WTF? I mean, I get that updates cost money and more so over a larger installed platform base...but what the hell is the point in saying the older CPUs will now work but won't be supported in updates? If someone didn't care about updates, then they'd likely just keep running Windows 10 after it's support ends...ever since XP changed to 7, they've been basically forcing people to update because of 'security'. I really don't think Windows has improved so much in successive versions that it would be worth changing - if not for updates. If you can't get updates (not just security, but features and in some cases, device/mode support), realistically, there just doesn't seem much point in changing Windows versions - to me.
For example, I ran W 8.1 for a long time - but I actually only changed from W7 for basically one reason: Native UASP USB support. 8 did it natively, 7 only did it if individual manufacturers supported it (and even then, not very well). So, because I do a lot of work with large external volumes (drive images), I ultimately decided screw it, I'll just use W8. If it hadn't been for that, I'd have been running W7 right up until a couple months ago (when I changed my entire machine and - of course - W10 is necessary since I want to run MS FlightSim 2020).