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#4573737 - 07/05/21 07:41 PM Formula 1  
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Any fans here? I thought I'd start a thread to discuss the finer points, controversies, drama and event results of the Formula One season. We're nine races in to the current season. Here's what I posted about yesterday's race on a different forum. It lacks context maybe since this thread is only starting. If you're a fan of the sport, jump in and give your thoughts and opinions.

Another clinical victory for Max, I guess, since he's out in front so much he doesn't actually appear on the broadcast I watch. If I saw his car for more than four minutes yesterday I'd be surprised. So judging by the margin of victory I'd say he probably drove it well haha. Clearly he's in the fastest car, but he is making that count. To illustrate how good he was, his fastest lap was 1.5 seconds faster than the second-best (Norris) and nearly 2 seconds faster than any other car.

Perez showed poor judgement with the attempt to go around Norris in turn 4. Too early to be trying something like that, and so hard to make it stick. But if you can get alongside you're then on the inside on the entrance to turn 5 so it can work.

As to the penalty-fest, that's not what I want to see. But my view is that if another car is alongside you must leave a lane. Norris' left front was on the red and white kerb on the exit and there was no track, let alone a lane. I don't see how anything else is acceptable, and the commentators in the broadcast felt it was hard racing and legit. I think the car on the inside must leave a car's width. This is nothing to do with it being a Red Bull, but just what is needed to ensure cars aren't pushed in to traps, walls and run-offs. The stewards seem to agree. No matter how harebrained, aggressive or stupid the other driver is, he has to be given room to stay on the track.

Ricciardo had a good run. I've been critical, but he looked good yesterday and scored the car and good points. McLaren need both cars in the mix and got that yesterday.

Alpha Tauri didn't justify my expectation. Maybe because they started on softs, but just a P9 after their excellent qualifying is a disappointment. Ferrari again did well. They'd love to be a little higher in the finishing order, but scoring both cars week in, week out is the primary objective as they try to hunt down the Mclarens. Still, they went backwards this week, with Lando's great drive to the podium. Lando's 101 points are not far away from both Ferrari's total of 122. If Ricciardo had hit the ground running this season McLaren would be out of sight.

Gutted for Russell, who came oh so close. His points are surely coming. Kimi nearly finished 11th, but didn't. Alonso scored, taking that point away from Williams, and he seems to be on a streak. Must be four or five races straight now. The Alpine is the best sounding car on the grid too.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
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#4573752 - 07/05/21 08:57 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Max looks more and more like WDC material. He has matured a lot as a driver imho.

Mercedes seem to be stumbling; having diffficulty with strategy for the last couple of races. Back in the day when teams consisted of about 10 people, including drivers, team owner and principal, mechanics, and wives doing the time-charts, it was accepted wisdom that winning a Championship was a massive effort and that it was very hard, and almost unheard of winning back to back Championships. Has Mercedes finally lost their winning ways?

Hamilton seems to have lost his focus, not interested in working in the simulator. Back in the day when Rosberg was his teammate, Hamilton relied heavily on advice from his pits; which buttons to push on his steering wheel. Originally, Lauda was the one who told Hamilton to stop partying and to put in the work required. Now Lauda is gone and perhaps Hamilton is too distracted by other agendas?

Come on Bottas. Carpe Diem!

Another protegé has not fared too well since his mentor was incapacitated. I’m thinking of Vettel who has had certifiable melt-downs while at Ferrari. As we know, Michael Schumacher was a great inspiration for Vettel who seems to be less at ease with the current crop of cars, than he was while at Red Bull during the double-diffuser era.

In one sentence and only in my opionion of course, but I think: all the old guys should retire and let the young ones have a go.

Haas: Oh my word word. What a sad story.

Last edited by McGonigle; 07/05/21 08:59 PM.

Jens C. Lindblad


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#4573765 - 07/05/21 10:49 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Mercedes this year have been an interesting case. I think their drop is due to a number of reasons.

It's difficult to say how much to one or another. They seem to be affected more than other teams by the spending cap. Or looked at another way they are devoting more of that pie to 2022. After all they started the year on fire, and up to Spain were easily the class of the division. But it also seems true that they have done very little to improve the car. They say parts are in the pipeline, but they've put on fewer than Red Bull have to this stage. And they are still ahead of everyone else aside from the Red Bulls and Lando maybe, on pace. So in essence their car has stood still (more) than those around them, but it started at the front. And it could very well pay off next season, if this is true.

Since Spain, Red Bull have stormed ahead. Partly it's due I think to Max becoming more clinical and focused. I mean, if his left rear hadn't blown at Baku he'd have won five straight. He has been brilliant after the first couple of races when he seemed to be trying a bit too hard. He must have felt hard done by at Bahrain, getting tagged for track limits when Merc had been running wide there all day, although not to overtake. And you could sense his frustration and eagerness since he finally had a car that could match Hamilton and Bottas for pace. But each week Red Bull fell a little farther behind. It didn't help that Perez was struggling. not just for the points, but because having two cars in the mix up front opens up strategy options while limiting what Mercedes can do. Spain was the worst of the lot, with max hung out to dry as Hamilton stormed past. But starting with Monaco, Red Bull have been fantastic.They're hitting the rights notes on strategy while Merc aren't, as you said. But pace is king and Red Bull have it right now. So while Mercedes have more or less stood still, Red Bull, and even McLaren have moved forward. And Checo has been much better and the protection and points he provides are helping Max and the team.

So Merc's issues are partly due to them and partly to the competition, in my view. I think Hamilton is still at the top of his game honestly. I don't see him as unfocused, matter of fact I think the challenge of this year has perked him up if anything. It's just that Max has too much pace at the moment. It's interesting you mention the simulator, as Hamilton is notoriously adverse to it. But I just read something yesterday about how he is putting in a lot more time. He is surely frustrated that his machinery is no longer superior, but he still impresses me with his demeanor. He is gracious in defeat and a good team player on the radio. You listen to Kimi or Bottas and that's a lot different lol. I'm no fan of his, but credit where it's due.

We'll see how it shakes out. You'd expect Mercedes to be better at Silverstone, but this is the first race with sprint qualifying and anything can happen with that.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4573782 - 07/06/21 03:07 AM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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About penalties: same as DBond: for me, if a car is half a length or more on your side, you need to give space.

Not let through, but give space.

Same topic: if you put any wheel outside the white bands, and your lap is not at the minimum 1 sec slower than the previous you did without exceeding track limits, and no one pushed you outside the track limits, you should get a drive through. Apply this one strictly and you 'll get much, much less controversies very soon, and no need for license points penalties, and much less damaged parts.


On the subject of who will win the championship, unless Mercedes finds a trick soon, I can't see Max not crowned. Lewis is very talented, but so is Max. Lewis is mature, but so is Max since last year. And Max clearly has the faster car now. Not by this much, if Lewis and Merc play their top game, but still faster. And Merc seem to not play their top game right now they're under pressure. Add in Mc Laren and Ferrari at times, plus the occasional Gasly, and we're in for a great championship year (finally !).


Last edited by rollnloop.; 07/06/21 05:17 PM.
#4573805 - 07/06/21 12:30 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah good post rollnloop. But I'd change your rule to all four wheels over the line.

Max is looking good no doubt and it's his title to lose. Even though Perez has been better of late, he still needs to tighten it up. The second race at the Osterreich RIng, I mean the A1 Ring, sorry, the Red Bull Ring was a mess for him. A podium was there for the taking but his rash overtake attempt on Lando killed his race and cost the team those points.He's been better than Gasly or Albon were, but I need to see more consistency and patience from him to ensure he is in the mix near the front in the latter stages of the race.

Speaking of Gasly, he has been really good this year, especially on Saturdays. Alpha Tauri have quietly put together a good package. Their one-lap pace is excellent. Now they need to match that for race pace. Tsunoda has shown flashes but I think it will be better to judge him in his second season. Both cars retreated Sunday and they'll want to get a handle on that. This season has separated in to four team battles.

Mercedes and Red Bull
McLaren and Fez
Aston Martin and Alpha Tauri
All the rest

The McLaren and Ferrari battle has been great. This one could go down to the wire, unless Ricciardo picks it up. Norris has been highly impressive this year and seems to get better every race. Ferrari are hard to judge. it seems whenever their one-lap pace is good they fall off in the race. When they qualify lower they run great in the race. They need to get both of those things working at the same time if they hope to challenge for podiums. If they can then they'll give McLaren a proper fight to the end. If they don't, and Ricciardo figures it out, then McLaren will pull away.

Long way to go. Red Bull are looking really good right now, and we'll see how it goes.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4574257 - 07/12/21 04:25 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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I believe this thread will devolve to me talking to myself, but in an effort to keep it going.....

Silverstone this weekend. As mentioned it is the first F1 race with sprint qualifying, which is a massive change, and honestly I don't know what to make of it. I really enjoy the Q1/Q2/Q3 format, but sprint qualifying is a major shakeup and I think should provide gobs of drama. No stops, just pure racing. Now how are the grids set for the sprints? Championship order? Inverted? No, inverted is too radical at this point I am sure. Need to learn more detail. It will be interesting too to see the reactions of any driver dropped down to the back of the Grand Prix grid because someone knuckleheaded him off the track in sprint or something.

Merc is bringing some upgrades and they will hope that narrows the performance gap to Red Bull. Red Bull has looked superior in straight line speed over the course of the last few races, and Silverstone is a high speed track. So it will be interesting if they have indeed narrowed the gap. With no traditional qualifying, one-lap pace is out the window and race pace is all that matters this week.

Last year there were tire issues here, and we'll see if that is sorted by Pirelli. I'm expecting Max to be strong, if he can avoid mayhem in qualifying. I'll make my way too early prediction of this podium

Max
Lando
Checo


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#4574262 - 07/12/21 04:36 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I believe this thread will devolve to me talking to myself, but in an effort to keep it going.....




While I have a TON of fun playing F1 racing sims I just can't get into watching the real races. I've tried it though several times but I usually switch the channel after about 30 minutes or so. I think part of it has to do with the race commentators. They are pretty dull in my opinion.


Then again, I also lost interest in watching NASCAR several years ago even though there were some great race commentators in that league. I think once all of those major rule changes were made and once many of the famous drivers like Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt Jr. retired I simply lost interest.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/12/21 04:37 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4574268 - 07/12/21 05:29 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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I can understand, but I love it and never miss a Formula 1 race. It's a spectacle. True, the racing can become more like a parade, and for those who just want to see close racing, I can understand tuning out at times. These cars are so aero-sensitive that the unfortunate side-effect is they become slower in dirty air. So the closer they get to the car in front, the harder it is to go fast. This is why I see ERS and DRS as necessary evils. Without these, overtaking would be even more rare. And the technical disparity plays a big part too.

For those fans who support a team or driver, the series takes on something extra I think. It's not the best racing division for neutrals, but for those with a horse in the race it is a lot of fun. The midfield battles, the fight up front, the drama of DNFs and mechanical issues, the strategy. The tracks are iconic. We were talking a bit in a different thread, comparing F1 to Indy Car and the racing is closer in Indy Car, no doubt. But I still prefer F1 (Indy Car is great). My reasons are a bit esoteric perhaps, but for me Formula One is the best racing series.

Maybe try picking a driver to support and following it all from that perspective?

OK, the way qualifying is to work is to have traditional three-session qualifying on Friday, which sets the grid for the 100-km sprint (no stops or tire restrictions). Then the sprint sets the order for the Grand Prix.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4574269 - 07/12/21 05:38 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond

Maybe try picking a driver to support and following it all from that perspective?

.



On a related note, I find it pretty embarrassing that there are no US drivers in F1 and I can't even remember the last US driver of any note in F1. It speaks volumes that the last US driver to win a F1 championship was Mario Andretti in 1978!

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/12/21 05:38 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4574271 - 07/12/21 05:45 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Fair point, but they are looking. And there is an American team. They are by far the slowest, but 2022 has big regulation changes and who knows how that will shake out.

A few Indy Car drivers are getting looks in F1. Pato O'Ward is getting a test. Alexander Rossi has been mentioned. Haas is the American team, and they want an American driver. Stars must align, but there's a real possibility of it happening in the next few seasons. Who it might be is a matter of speculation.


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#4574272 - 07/12/21 05:49 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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The last US F1 driver was probably Alexander Rossi.

Maybe in a not so distant future Logan Sargeant could be in F1. He finished 3rd last year in F3 Championship.

#4574274 - 07/12/21 05:57 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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So it seems F1 is similar to football (soccer) as far as the US goes. Maybe one day the US will be competitive but don't hold your breath. biggrin


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4574277 - 07/12/21 06:36 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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True, but we have the enduring credit of having fielded the most glorious F1 car of all time, the Eagle-Weslake TG1. It stands still as the only American built F1 car to win a race (Spa '67).

Gurney for President!


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4574278 - 07/12/21 06:39 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
True, but we have the enduring credit of having fielded the most glorious F1 car of all time, the Eagle-Weslake TG1. It stands still as the only American built F1 car to win a race (Spa '67).

Gurney for President!


I found the Eagle to be too slow in Grand Prix Legends so I mostly stuck with the Lotus and the Ferrari. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4574287 - 07/12/21 09:17 PM Re: Formula One [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
So it seems F1 is similar to football (soccer) as far as the US goes. Maybe one day the US will be competitive but don't hold your breath. biggrin


The woman's team is the top team in football.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4574289 - 07/12/21 09:45 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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And the men team has no real palmares yet, but last time I saw them play I thought they were quite good, they're on the rise imho.

Back to F1: this is the most unpredictable season since ages, I hope Merc/RB and Ferrari/McLaren wil last the whole season, with the occasionnal AT/AM blurring the lines, and the odd Alpine once in a while.

#4574310 - 07/13/21 01:28 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, exactly right. Great season so far. Merc will need to get a handle on it if they are to prevent Red Bull from continuing to extend, and they may do starting this weekend. Friday's qualifying should be enlightening.

McLaren have a Ricciardo problem. He looked much better in Austria, so maybe he has finally turned the corner. You expect a certain bedding in period when a driver moves teams. But this has gone beyond what seems reasonable. It was the same situation at Red Bull with Perez struggling early, but he's come good after Monaco. Ricciardo needs to do the same. It's not just the points, but having both cars in the mix opens up strategy options while limiting what your rivals can do. If McLaren are to pip third they need both drivers in that mix. Fez have their own troubles, but have looked much better than 2020 and are right there, 19 points back. Should be a great battle all year, or I hope it is smile.



No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4574315 - 07/13/21 02:34 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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It took a whole season for Ricciardo to adapt to its Renault when he moved from RB.

Edit: And Norris is, in my opinion, a better driver than Hulk and Ocon.

Last edited by Roudou; 07/13/21 02:38 PM.
#4574317 - 07/13/21 03:04 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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If Daniel can't regularly be between 2 and 6 on quali soon, that will hurt his career badly.

Ocon and Hulk were about the same in 2018 but give time to Ocon, he's still young and missed a full year. I have faith in him.

Sadly, he is too tall, hopefully he won't get impaired by a change of rules that would favor the dwarfes, like a few years ago.

Max being quite popular and not too small himself, rules should stay as they are for a few more years at least.

Norris has indeed stepped quite forward, next years he should be on max's level, as well as charles and george, probably slightly better than carlos and pierre but by thin margin.

#4574328 - 07/13/21 04:38 PM Re: Formula One [Re: DBond]  
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Lando has been driver of the season for me so far, and I'm a Max fan. But Lando has been so impressive. While many of the more experienced drivers struggle with this or that, Norris has just gotten his head down and performed. And when you compare his results to those of Ricciardo, it is that much more impressive. I want Max to win the driver's, and Red Bull the constructors', but I am secretly pulling for Lando to steal second or third. Probably too much to ask in the McLaren, but if he can keep it up....


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