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#4570069 - 05/27/21 06:00 AM OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB  
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trustworthykebab Offline
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Today I woke up to a mail from 777...
For the first time since the end of development for RIse of Flight, they'll be working on completely new models for two collector planes: the Sopwith Snipe and the..Siemens Schuckert D.IV!
At lest for me this is amazing news, and I'll be rather curious to see how they'll work on them.

#4570072 - 05/27/21 07:07 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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jeanba Offline
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Originally Posted by trustworthykebab
Today I woke up to a mail from 777...
For the first time since the end of development for RIse of Flight, they'll be working on completely new models for two collector planes: the Sopwith Snipe and the..Siemens Schuckert D.IV!
At lest for me this is amazing news, and I'll be rather curious to see how they'll work on them.

Those planes made a very short appearance historically (to say the least).
They confirm that the development focus of FC is "dogfight arena", and this is not my cup of teas.
Un less there is a significant change in this policy, I will not consider buying FC1 or 2.
C47 / Li-2 for ww2 are much more interesting !!!

#4570085 - 05/27/21 09:01 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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trustworthykebab Offline
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Those are indeed interesting, I love those! The Sniper and the SS D.IV were rather saltuary in WW1, but I find them fascinating nontheless. True, FC is not as great as WOFF, but one must admit their FM and the feeling of flight is top notch. I'll follow them with interest and I might get only those two for their amazingness

#4570094 - 05/27/21 10:07 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Baxter Offline
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I get really embarrassed when I think about how much I spent at the Steam store a couple of months ago before working out that my internet connection is not stable enough for multi player. Therefore FC is a non starter. Looking forward to an upgraded WoTR though.

#4570120 - 05/27/21 12:25 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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JFM Offline
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I support all WW1 aviation sims so look forward to this. Plus, their mention of an “FC3” suggests long-term vision. Coupled with BHaH2, #winning.

#4570131 - 05/27/21 01:55 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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trustworthykebab Offline
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Hope they'll follow what they did with Vol2 so they'll go back year by year. Possible 1915 pack in volume 4? Possible new early war planes? Who knows, the hope is still there!

#4570233 - 05/28/21 01:31 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: JFM]  
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catch Offline
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Originally Posted by JFM
I support all WW1 aviation sims


This ^ ....

I fly WOFF, ROF and FC. They all have their good and bad points. But at least we have them to scratch that itch for WW1 flying. It's better than nowt.

#4570250 - 05/28/21 09:48 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Trooper117 Offline
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I think for the next three, possibly four years the main effort will be importing the rest of the RoF series into FC... and as we have seen, they will introduce new content on occasion.
People 'ooh and ahh' at the new eye candy, and it is good, but there are still problems to be fixed...

#4570478 - 05/30/21 11:49 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: Trooper117]  
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jnhoward Offline
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somerset
Originally Posted by Trooper117
I think for the next three, possibly four years the main effort will be importing the rest of the RoF series into FC... and as we have seen, they will introduce new content on occasion.
People 'ooh and ahh' at the new eye candy, and it is good, but there are still problems to be fixed...


I've been playing ROF since its release.
The hours I put in must be Well into 4 figures.
Then I found WOFF about 10 months ago [ I had heard of it but thought it was multi player only] and have never loaded up ROF since.
It is a good sim but always looked so lifeless on the ground.
As for 'Flying Circus', It looks very good. But needs to be renamed as ''THE GREAT AVIATION SWINDLE''.
Volume 1 was over priced. Now those thieves want to rip us off 3 times over AND charge for extra aircraft.
I have Volumes 1 & 2, but wish I had saved my money.
So unless you have recently won the national lottery Stick with WOFF..

#4570483 - 05/30/21 01:22 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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trustworthykebab Offline
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I'll begin paying for full volumes once they begin adding new birds. Until then I'll stick to new collectors only

#4570484 - 05/30/21 01:33 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: jnhoward]  
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Originally Posted by jnhoward



As for 'Flying Circus', It looks very good. But needs to be renamed as ''THE GREAT AVIATION SWINDLE''.
Volume 1 was over priced. Now those thieves want to rip us off 3 times over AND charge for extra aircraft.
I have Volumes 1 & 2, but wish I had saved my money.
So unless you have recently won the national lottery Stick with WOFF..


So what you are saying is that you blindly purchase WWI flight sims and then complain after the fact and before the completed product is released? FC I delivered everything they promised. FC II promises a lot more(Career that will retro FC I, map expansion, new planes + collector planes) and we will have to see how that turns out. The DM and AI still need work and hopefully 1C will address this soon, but thieves they are not. FC I is the only modern - ish engine WW I flight simulator in production. WOFF is king but having more choices is always a good thing. I suggest you learn to study new sim offerings before you pull the trigger prematurely and then feel you have been ripped off. With all the Forum input, official reviews and YouTube vids there is no reason that anyone should purchase a sim without feeling pretty confident that they are making the right choice. FC II is not even 1/10 complete and you are complaining. Don't purchase in early access and wait until the product is released before you spend your hard earned money to make sure it is really what you want. Then if it sucks you have a right to complain. Opinions are like ass-holes, everybody has one, but what you posted above is simply not true and prematurely stated to be honest.

S!Blade<><




Last edited by Blade_Meister; 05/31/21 01:39 AM.
#4570493 - 05/30/21 02:32 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Trooper117 Offline
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I have lots of flight sims... they have their own problems and niggles and none are truly perfect.
On the WWI side I have WoFF (all products purchased)... also RoF, everything purchased... FC1 and pre purchased FC2.
I've played them all and enjoyed them all despite those problems and niggles.
If DCS ever go into WWI you can bet your boots I'd snap that up as well... I've never gone down the road of saying this one is better than that one, because of the reasons stated above.
If we could take all the best bits and roll them into one perfect game, let me know, I'll buy that as well... biggrin

#4570499 - 05/30/21 03:43 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Albert Tross Offline
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I also bought everything ROF had to offer. This was before I knew WOFF even existed.

ROF could and should have been an absolute world beater, but they developed it to make maximum money rather than for the maximum WW1 experience. That was their choice and you can hardly blame them but once they stopped developing it, because of the lack of depth, it was dead.

OBD could walk away from WOFF today and never touch it again* and in 5 years time it would still be a great game, because it was developed with the experience of WW1 in mind as much as a money spinner.

FC seems to be going a similar way to ROF but at least they are being upfront with saying it is more multiplayer aimed. That's fine, it's just not my cup of char.

* Please don't stop touching it OBD!!! Keep on keeping on! It was just an example.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4570504 - 05/30/21 04:13 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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jeanba Offline
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As a single player experience, I loved two-seaters missions with RoF :
- Artillery spotting were great
Same for reconnaissance missions with the camera.
Bombing missions with the bomb sights were ok too, but a WoFF mod should allow to do it, except I did not find a good way to train as we do not really know the outcome of a bombing.

#4570519 - 05/30/21 06:21 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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VonS Offline
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Interesting posts gents'. I suppose it comes down to how many sims. one enjoys supporting at any given time and how much room one has on the SSD/HDD. Imagine if you could be an octopus and running multiple WW1 sims. on multi-monitor setups, at the same time, and with multiple rudder bars and joysticks? Such a scenario would eliminate the need to pick and choose among sims. In the meantime we may resort to crude charts, as indicated below.

Personally, I like to use my "cheapness meter" and "run for the money" metrics biggrin when purchasing software, including sims. Having said that, I think the best stretch of one's dollar, and simulation goodness, may be - perhaps - set up as in the following (very crude) chart below (since I don't do multiplayer or VR, my list of course is set up with the non-VR single player in mind):

No. 1 Spot: WOFF (any of the latest iterations, such as UE, PE, BH2); a fully-fleshed out sim, strong AI, delicious-looking terrains, best campaign system, and I've always found the FMs just fine, particularly with little tweaks (also good is the healthy option of various mods. available); good at full price, especially good when on sale; choose this one if you only want to own one WW1 sim. (and especially if you never had the pleasure of owning/flying the UE or PE vers., then definitely look into getting BH2 - it is a noticeable improvement over the stock UE and stock PE versions)

No. 2. Spot: FE2 (July 2010 patch, latest one); crude in stock form but a one-time purchase; decent AI, good FMs (when modded), nice skies and clouds; terrains are "acceptable" but not nearly as good as those in WOFF; campaign system seems scripted and I think that FE2 is better for quick missions or "rolling single missions," not for campaigns; fully-modded, it is a good investment for those who want to have a second WW1 sim. on their computer; make sure, after having set up fully-modded installs of FE2, particularly various theaters (Italian front, middle eastern front, etc.) - to make backups of all of the theaters, since it is time-consuming to start from scratch and to re-mod everything if your SSD/HDD crashes (if you do not like to mod. things heavily, particularly when installing a sim., I would not recommend FE2 - it is not user-friendly initially but, for those who like to tinker, may be transformed into a good, second choice of WW1 flight sim.)

No. 3. Spot: RoF (United Edition); it is what it is; a "free" download, but if you want to set up a fairly good hangar of aircraft, it will cost about 45-50 USD (I am speaking of prices when aircraft are on sale for about 2 USD per aircraft); I would not recommend buying the aircraft when they are at full price (collect slowly when they go on sale); heavily-modded, it is an acceptable, third WW1 sim. to have and does have nice terrains, aircraft modelling, also good FMs (although, personally, I find the aircraft a bit too twitchy in RoF, as I do in my IL2- BoM install); it has the best "engine management" of the classic WW1 sims. but, again, this depends on taste (I don't care much for extreme realism with engine management); stock AI in RoF is awful, with the possible exception of default behavior of two-seaters when flown by the AI; I am currently tinkering with an AI improvement tweak (see the relevant RoF thread here on SimHQ) that seems to have improved the AI some, and I will work a bit more on that tweak, so that we owners of RoF (when aircraft are on sale) can get a bit more of our money's worth from it (but no promises that the AI will be magically transformed into WOFF/FE2 AI)

No. 4. Spot: the FC series - still in (experimental) development; considering that my rankings system is geared towards frugal fliers such as yours truly, this is a no-go at this particular point in time; we cheap fliers might revisit the FC family in the future, once it gets to around the FC3 level, providing that Pat Wilson's campaign generator is still around, or that the default campaign generator has greatly improved by then, and - yes - we will still wait for the FC series, even then, to go on sale biggrin

No. 5 Spot: RB3D; for the super-cheap crowd, I recommend grabbing the free, German copy of Red Baron II, and, using relevant instructions found on the internet - to upgrade it to the RB3D standard; with the relevant Glide wrapper installed, some of the RB3D patches are, I suppose, minimally acceptable even today (such as the Hell's Angels patch); recommended is to load the GreyBeard FM mods. for RB3D installs, since those were quite historical and challenging; RB3D also works well in WineSkin on Macs, and on Linux too (personally, I don't bother with RB3D anymore, and haven't since about 2013 or so - with WOFF available, or even modded FE2, there is no reason to stay in RB3D unless feeling very nostalgic or unless running an old computer from the 1990s, early 00s - although be aware that graphics in it are primitive by today's standards, even with a Glide wrapper loaded)

Thank you OBD for creating an excellent series/history of WW1 sims. that also goes great with classical music (I recommend Classical Radio Venice).

Oh, to sing
the praises of OBD,

Who have nailed
their flight sim.
to a tee,

With aerial
jousts at a
galloping pace,

And castor oil
in my face.


Cheers all and happy flying,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 01/04/22 10:47 PM. Reason: Tweaked post.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4570522 - 05/30/21 07:27 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Great little chart VonS... makes a lot of sense! biggrin

#4570535 - 05/31/21 12:00 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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VonS Offline
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
Great little chart VonS... makes a lot of sense! biggrin


cheers Thanks Trooper. Yes, the chart is largely intended for the frugal flier but even in that context I think that WOFF is still the best bang-for-the-buck WW1 sim. Dollars to dumplings, and to wing-struts and spanners, WOFF is a complete package that is great even without mods. added. It is well baked - and at a reasonable price (a fine sim. for all ye-olde-school SP simmers; I even like the old CFS3 modified engine; tamed with GPU Tuners and other performance tweaks, it doesn't suffer from indigestion and behaves well, and gives those nice clouds that look like a painting).

Those who prefer multiplayer should obviously disregard my chart in the post above - not much choice for modern MP in WW1 except for the FC series, which I hope succeeds for the sake of MP fliers out there.

Happy flying all,
Von S

Last edited by VonS; 01/04/22 10:46 PM. Reason: Edited post.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4570538 - 05/31/21 01:59 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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Just to qualify, I own everything ROF and really enjoyed it, but agree that 777 went after money rather than really buckling down and fleshing out the contents of what they had created. That still pisses me off when I fire up ROF to this day but it is what it is. They were quite close to owning the title of best WWI Combat Flight Sim, but they missed the mark. Hopefully the FC Series will not end up the same way, but it could very well happen the same way. If they don't separate the WWI & WWII DMs pretty quick(as Jason suggested they would need to do) and set FC straight in this matter of damage models, I fear they are really going to be Hammered by the Community and that will kill sales for 1C with FC. 1C had better wake up because the rumblings are already being posted over on the IL2 Forums from some of the Old school guys that made the transition from ROF to FC. I have had WOFF back during the 2nd and third Iterations(what was it called back then? dam-n, I am getting old!) and then took a hiatus until WOFF UE released, and I have highly enjoyed and appreciated what OBD have done to enrich the WWI Combat Flight sim experience. The only real misstep that I have experienced with OBD is the release of PE at a premium price and then the release of BH&H II at a premium price so close after PE. Other than that, as said earlier, I consider WOFF the King of WWI Combat Sims and I am sure I will enjoy BH&H II once I do buy it. As someone else said, if DCS did WWI I would be all over it, even as screwed up as ED is. Each WWI Combat Flight Sim has its' place on my SSD and I always try to enjoy the positive aspects of each of them. My 2 cents. yep

S!Blade<><

#4570561 - 05/31/21 02:22 PM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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JFM Offline
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Re: DCS, I took it up the highway via that WWII Kickstarter years ago. They never made right on it for me, and now seven years later I just don't give a scheisse anymore. Plus, people think ROF's planes were pricey! rofl

#4570613 - 06/01/21 03:37 AM Re: OT: new WW1 planes after years in Il2:GB [Re: trustworthykebab]  
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catch Offline
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I tend to agree. DCS planes are way to pricey for me and I think you need a pretty hot rig to run it well. Which I don't have. So I don't give a scheisse either. As for FC and FC2/3 preorder, while I don't regret buying them I won't be purchasing any WW1 "collector planes" until the reviews are in. If at all. We shall see. Anybody who knows anything about FC knows the issues LOL. I'm really waiting for the SP career. MP is a kinda no go for me because of my timezone and/or daylight trackir issues and/or committing to a certain time and/or atrocious ping (250+). All popular online events are of course US or Euro based. But the few times I made an effort in the wee small hours I enjoyed it. But SP is far more user friendly. And that's why I'm here folks. smile

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