Not sure I agree with the 99.9 percent claim. BUT, if these pilots/accounts are to be believed, then I doubt even the US would have the technology to have craft that can travel at these speeds and the ability to manoeuvre the way they do.

I think ultimately we are going round in circles so the question should be, do we believe these pilots/radar operators/back seaters etc accounts or not? If we do, then it seems to me quite obvious what the answer is. If not, then yes, the answer could be very terrestrial.

Funny, we trust these guys/girls to be in control of 80+ million dollars worth of kit but when they put themselves in the spotlight and say what they've seen - certain keyboard warriors seem to know better.

I honestly think that some closed minded people on this site and in society are scared of even contemplating we are not the apex of evolution. Drones, could be. Russians, could be. China, could be. Aliens, no way!

I wonder how many opinions are clouded by religious beliefs. And no, I don't want this going PWEC.

RossUK, you'd be surprised but some of the naysayers aren't religious at all.

I think there's an equal spread between religious and non-religious who don't believe in aliens, based on my own anecdotal encounters.


Some folks just don't, do not want, or can't believe in aliens, for whatever reason.

The general public doesn't have any evidence, other than photos, video and heresay. I do know that if a human being were in a craft that accelerated such as these accounts describe, their organs would be liquefied and they'd be dead. There's ways around this--conventionally, even, but I don't think we have all the necessary components to make this work, yet. We have most, though--for helping a human sustain 30+ gs, but the methods would seem bizarre and unfathomable to many.

If we did capture alien tech with the military, then maybe we'd be able to attempt to produce such engine/drive technology that propels these craft. Otherwise, I'm very doubtful these are man made. I can't claim this with certainty, though.

Can't add anything to that post Blastman. Perfect.

This post is poorly worded at best, or shows a lack of understanding for most of the counter points here at worst.

First of all, I'm pretty sure no one said they don't believe in aliens, they just don't think it's likely that these craft are alien, and that's a big difference. And it goes against your point of them not wanting to believe. I fully believe it is likely that there is alien life, possibly intelligent, and possibly more advanced than us. That doesn't mean that I have to accept these sightings as alien spacecraft.

Second, you talk about what would happen to humans in craft pulling 30+ Gs, but it's very possible these craft are not manned (or aliened), and have no life on board, whether of alien or human origin. Air-to-air missiles can pull 20 Gs, from what's been released, so there are certainly human-built craft that could handle something like what you're seeing there, from a force perspective.

On top of that, you're really at the point of having to prove two things - first, that there are aliens capable of building such craft, and second, that these craft are built by them. Since we have no evidence of either, it seems quite a stretch to jump to the conclusion that they are alien spacecraft.

When I was a kid, I remember looking up in the dark, night sky and seeing a yellow glowing ball of light with red and green blinking lights in a couple of spots around it. I was fascinated by it, but then realized that I was seeing a military helicopter with blinking lights turning on final to the near-by base, and the yellow ball was the residual light from when I looked at a street light a moment before I saw the helo. It was then that I understood how people could mistake common things for strange craft in the sky. When you're looking at something through a camera, from moving craft, with zoom lenses, optical factors like parallax and lack of context can make things look like they are moving in ways they are not. I think it is very possible that if you took a remote drone that was maneuvering in ways manned aircraft couldn't, and then threw in a couple of optical factors that added confusion, even a trained military pilot might not understand what they were seeing.

None of that proves that these are *not* alien spacecraft, but when trying to decide what something unexplained is, I can either choose to base my analysis on things we know [people's senses being easily confused, poor conditions making things difficult to make out accurately, the development of secret vehicles that fly at night and may not be well-known] and things we don't know [whether there is alien life at all, whether alien life could be intelligent, whether intelligent alien life is visiting Earth], I am going to skew in favor of the things we know. If someone wants to leap over the unknowns, why not just choose that they are Atlantians, or time travelers, or just highly evolved beings that have been locked under the earth for eons and are just now getting out. Why are any of those less likely than extraterrestrials?

If these objects in the sky are US vehicles, wouldn't one think the US would using them against their enemies in one way or another?

Not poorly worded, but in the spirit of denigration, which your reply seems to be, dumbed down so the average folks could understand.

I'd rather not nerd out unless I have to.


I am skeptical of remote control from human sources because in some accounts these craft have entered the sea and emerged elsewhere. Water is wonderful at breaking up radio transmissions, so this alone is reason to give pause at them being remotely operated.

Also, the craft ability to change direction suddenly, without propellant trails or wake disturbances suggests an engine technology beyond anything known to man.

There's clues in the footage and the accounts, so take what you will from them.

I'll trust the accounts of our armed servicemen and women--I see no reason for them to lie, particularly when their records, ranks and pensions are on the line.


As I said at the end of that post,



We just don't know.

Very fair point.

If any denigration is going on here it's from you. All I'm saying is that when you said "Some folks just don't, do not want, or can't believe in aliens, for whatever reason" you either didn't word it accurately or weren't understanding what other people said. They weren't saying they didn't believe there were aliens, just that these sightings probably weren't aliens. I wasn't sure if you meant they didn't believe in aliens in general or just these craft being of alien origin. If you meant they didn't believe aliens existed, you were wrong, and if you meant they didn't think they were alien spacecraft, your reply was poorly worded.



OK, so maybe they are flying a pre-programmed routine, or perhaps using VLF frequencies, which may be enough to be used under water, or it could use a hybrid system using radio above the water and a piezo electric transducer to convert radio to acoustic signals when under water, perhaps controlled through a buoy connected to a near-by sub. Any of these things would seem to be much more likely than unknown aliens flying around.


Exactly - we just don't know, so jumping over other more plausible options to aliens seems like too large of a jump to make, in my opinion. Similar to what I've said in other discussions, we don't immediately assume that gnomes we have never seen hid the remote when we can't find it, we start with the most likely scenarios and go from there.

Not necessarily. The US has not been faced with an imminent existential threat recently.

You can look at the F-117 and B-2 programs for examples of the US holding back from revealing technology; the F-117 was IOC in 1983, and the HAVE BLUE program was flying in 1977, but the plane was not revealed until 1988.

So you think the US wouldn't have used this mysterious technology to do something about N Korea's nuke and missiles, for example?

I was just thinking about that the other day too. I believe in God, angels, spiritual beings, and I believe they are present on Earth. So I guess Im qualified to speak for the religious community.

So if people told me, hey I saw a bunch of angles hanging out at the local McDonald, and *only* at McDonald's, I guess I'd be a little skeptical and ask, why are angles only being spotted at McDonald's?

I think people who believe in aliens, should have the ability to brush aside their beliefs too and ask some hard questions. The first being, why are these things only being spotted near military targets and bases for decades now? Is our primitive technology that interesting and that amazing that an alien race needs decades to monitor it?

I'm sure there are far more interesting things to monitor in our world. That vast sprawling cities, the numerous wonders of the world, the skyscrapers and towers reaching 1000's of feet into the air, the Kennedy Space Center, the mass of airports and hubs for the largest airplanes in the world, sporting events, music concerts, and rallies that draw tens of thousands of people at a time, the many monuments and structures sprawled throughout our world, etc, etc..

But no, more interesting than any of that, is a lone warship in the middle of the ocean off the coast of San Diego...Come on man!

No, they might find it far more interesting than the mental shoving match in a Forum discussion on whether they exist...

I respect your beliefs but I could argue that there is more proof of aliens than there is of angels. But you believe in them yet aliens not visiting cities proves their lack of existence?

Get out of bed the wrong side today?

You could argue that, but notice I didn't say anything about my veracity in the a belief of God or your veracity about the belief in aliens.

I'm simply pointing out that we need to take a very objective approach to these events, and ask some very simple, yet difficult questions.

With that on mind, how would you make the argument that these advanced aliens have spent over 20 years monitoring military bases and targets, while literally ignoring everything else in the world?

You are someone I would very much like to talk to over a glass of wine/whatever you drink.

About the military targets idea. I agree it does seem to be a recent thing. And from my career I would say these installations have CCTV far better than the stuff domestically available. But then I bet there is issues with military CCTV being released.

I've said before, I'm an open minded skeptic. I'll say I lean sightly towards believing due to what I've read, but I'm no hard liner.

It's a fascinating subject.

Not at all, I just sense a little shall we say combativeness in some of the back and forth.

Ok, guess writing stuff instead of talking, you lose the context. Strange times!

Stay safe.

How do you know it is only military bases and targets and ignoring everything else? UFOs have been seen for 1000s of years.