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#4568529 - 05/15/21 03:42 PM About Early Victories  
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vonBaur Offline
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I began my first career, as I often do, in Jasta 2 on 1 September 1916 and noticed "no operations scheduled". No problem, I'll just see if I can get myself and my shiny new Fokker D-II into some trouble on my own. Well, no problem there, either, as three Nieuport 17's crossed the middle of Bertincourt airfield before I could even start my engines. My first thought was, "This should be fun", and my second was, "If I live through it".

Being either very brave or very foolish (that's a good line, someone should put that in a movie), I took off anyway. I broke away from the Nieuports to try to gain some altitude, and predictably they turned and headed back towards me. To make an already too long story shorter, I managed to shoot one down, which crashed just off the airfield, and chase another one away before the third put a couple of holes in my fuel tank and a big old crack in my goggles*. I landed safely, although thankful that WOFF hasn't yet incorporated a dressing down from the CO about discretion being the better part of valor or angry looks from the chief mechanic.

When I exited the mission I didn't see any "Congratulations on your claim(s)" in the debriefing, and in the details I was shown how many rounds I fired and how many were hits, but it didn't show an airplane shot down, even though the mission review clearly indicated that I had shot down the Nieuport and where it crashed it should have been seen by the entire squadron. A couple of 'days' later I had a similar occurrence with a BE2 that had bombed Bertincourt after I took off. I even filed a claim citing a nearby (less than two kilometers) observation balloon and ground troops as possible witnesses. And although that regularly worked with PE this claim was rejected due to lack of witnesses.

Which brings me to my question. Is it even possible to have a recognized victory if you're on a solo flight? Or was the fact that the squadron wasn't flying actual missions yet the reason they didn't register? I like the idea that if you enlist in a squadron before it's fully operational you don't have any missions assigned. That seems very realistic. But if it's not possible to score a victory during that period, no matter where it's shot down, there's no point in engaging if you do run across an enemy. You risk everything with no potential reward...other than the deep satisfaction that you have served the Fatherland. (ooo, that's another good line...I'm going to have to write these down before someone steals them wink )


*I really like the goggles (as well as the new terrain, and many other things which I've seen others comment on). I was afraid they'd have that cheesy, movie binocular look, but these are beautiful. Very much like wearing heavy-framed military goggles...only really noticeable if you look for them. The bulge at the nose reminds me of how much farther I'd have to look down to see my altimeter on HALO jumps than sport jumps. It might be interesting if they could be made increasingly dirty the more one fires his machine guns. And/or random oil or coolant smears, particularly when one has engine trouble.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4568533 - 05/15/21 04:26 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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trustworthykebab Offline
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Enemy planes flying above you in Lone Wolf missions seems to happen quite often. My best guess is that if there's no witness the chance of the claim being confirmed is extremely low, but I'm unsure if it's possible or not. My best guess is that there's still a thin chance of it happening, being the enemy sending a report that confirms that the machine you supposedly took down has indeed been destroyed/damaged. But I can't really tell.

#4568536 - 05/15/21 04:51 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Albert Tross Offline
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Hi vonBaur,

Did you have claims set to normal or easy in settings?

If normal, you don't see 'congratulations on your claim' in the debriefing screen or numbers of aircraft shot down.

These are only visible with the setting on easy.

If you're on normal settings you have to enter a claim in the normal way but in your case select 'no witness's and hope for the best.

I've had claims accepted when flying on my own and the squadron is non operational.

Cheers

Albert


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4568539 - 05/15/21 05:02 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Creaghorn Offline
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N�rnberg Frankonia
Quote
It might be interesting if they could be made increasingly dirty the more one fires his machine guns. And/or random oil or coolant smears, particularly when one has engine trouble.


Dirt does increase within time but currently not because of shooting the guns. Smears because of broken engines are in. Not always though but it happens, that suddenly your vision is obstructed by large smears if your engine is damaged

#4568542 - 05/15/21 05:26 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: Creaghorn]  
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vonBaur Offline
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Originally Posted by Creaghorn
Dirt does increase within time but currently not because of shooting the guns. Smears because of broken engines are in. Not always though but it happens, that suddenly your vision is obstructed by large smears if your engine is damaged

Ah, thanx. I haven't had an engine failure...yet. But I'm sure it will happen.



I just checked, Albert, and I had them set to 'normal'. I had them at 'easy', in PE because I got tired of having claims denied for lack of witnesses when I cited a nearby pilot in the box and one or two more, along with nearby balloon observers and ground troops in the body of the report. I'm ok with requiring more than just my say-so to have a claim approved, but I think requiring a general or above to sign off is a bit much wink . I've switched it back to 'easy', and hopefully that will do the trick.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4568543 - 05/15/21 05:32 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Creaghorn Offline
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N�rnberg Frankonia
One reason, and as history shows not an unrealistic one (just think about MvR's last flight) is that not only you are shooting at the enemy but ground units as well with plenty mg nests and rifleshooters. Especially near airfields or balloons it's therefore likely that the last bullet came from the ground, which means no claim for you unfortuntely. Even if you actually did the job.

#4568549 - 05/15/21 06:09 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Polovski Offline
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Of course if shooting aircraft down in campaign you can always put in a claim. It doesn't matter that you are your squadron is not active whatever.

Also note claims on 'normal' means you have to actually manually put the claim in, so on the debrief screen, bottom right there's a claim button. If you forget to do that no claims will be processed. If you do claim correctly, it will take some time to come through even if you do fill in the form.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4568568 - 05/15/21 09:35 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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vonBaur Offline
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So the 'normal, easy. easiest' has nothing to do with whether or not a claim is confirmed? Because it seemed that I had many more rejected when it was set to 'normal' even though my claim forms were filled out basically the same on both, as far as the crash site and extra witnesses.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4568570 - 05/15/21 10:01 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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VonS Offline
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@OP, as far as I know, setting claims to "easiest" does not require filling of claim reports and should (always?) result in a confirmed victory (good for lone wolf missions). "Easy" requires that a claim form be written up, but claims go through more frequently than if claims are set to "normal." "Normal" claims require not only a written claim report but there is greater chance, if all details are not included in a report - that the claim will not go through. We casual campaigners swear by the "easy" setting - works nicely for immersion and still results in a few rejected claims, for historical frustration. To be on the safe side when "lone-wolfing," maybe switch claims to "easiest" for that particular run, then go back to "easy" for regular missions, etc. Good luck getting claims confirmed if you are "lone-wolfing" with claims set to "normal." Personally I like the "easy" setting best, for balance, but tweak to taste and as per level of desire for self-punishment vis-a-vis claim reports. biggrin

Cheers all,
Von S


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4568573 - 05/15/21 10:15 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Claims on “normal” are neither logical nor fair. They’re random. We do it to make the sim more challenging. We’re not logical nor fair.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4568576 - 05/15/21 10:29 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Polovski Offline
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Not sure where that came from.

Anyway normal put in a decent description (been covered many times in various threads), and it's more likely.

Easy means you get told you had kills in the debrief for a start, (normal hides the hit stats for the player) and more likely to get approved. However, you do have to fill in the actual claim form still.
Oh and yes they are more likely to be awarded.

Easiest means kills are awarded no claim needed.

Last edited by Polovski; 05/18/21 05:17 PM. Reason: Answered another question

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4568578 - 05/15/21 11:02 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Fullofit Offline
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At normal setting you can put whatever you want in the claims description, even your grandmother’s favourite cookie recipe and it won’t make any difference. It’s random I tells ya. Random!


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4568579 - 05/15/21 11:14 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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.

I agree with you Fullofit. Over the years I have tried typing anything, everything, and nothing in the claims form descriptions on "normal" setting and there appears to be no difference whatsoever. So yes, random.
As a matter of fact, in the current DID campaign for my second pilot I have been entering only the witness, (or lack of same), and the plane types, and nothing else, and there has been no significant percentage difference overall when compared to my first pilot where I was filling out complete descriptions of the encounters.

.


[Linked Image]

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_________________________________________________________________________

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#4568580 - 05/15/21 11:18 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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NotRelevant Offline
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Still pretty fun to fill them out though, eh?


"Those who survive a long time on the battlefield start to think they're invincible.
I bet you do, too, Buddy."
#4568581 - 05/15/21 11:22 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Fullofit  Offline
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Lou, I really wish there was a better mechanism for claims in WoFF of BHaH2 for that matter. Show us a map. Ask us to place a pin on said map to show the location of the kill - the closer to the actual place the plane went down the better the percentage of a successful claim. Ask for time. Give us a choice of different witnesses for each kill. TaKe into consideration which side of the “fence” the kill occurred and adjust probability of a successful claim. Let us call balloons and infantry as witnesses. Is it so much to ask?
Heh heh! Thanks Lou I needed to vent.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4568582 - 05/15/21 11:25 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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L'Etoile du Nord
.

Too much to ask? Not at all, Fullofit! I'd add that we should have the Model T back as well so we can drive out to the nearby crashes and collect souvenirs of our victories. biggrin

.

#4568583 - 05/15/21 11:32 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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And NotRelevant, it is still fun to fill them out.

.

#4568584 - 05/15/21 11:51 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Panama Red Offline
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RAF_Lou:
I agree that OBD should bring back the Motel T that they had in the original BH&H, that way we could drive it around like back then (even though "J" almost does the same thing though).


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#4568590 - 05/16/21 12:52 AM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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vonBaur Offline
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Regarding claim forms, I fill them out the same, give or take, all the time...crash site as near as I can judge, witness box if I could identify a nearby flight member, and ground witnesses (nearby balloon observers and nearby ground troops with approximate distances to the nearest town or airfield, railyard and/or airfield personnel, as appropriate) in the body of the claim. And as I said, I've had several rejected due to lack of confirmation on 'normal' even with plenty of witnesses around, while on 'easy' they go through sometimes with even fewer flying witnesses. I don't think it's random, by any means. I do think that 'normal' is unrealistic. But that's just my opinion. Plus, everything I've heard indicates that confirmation from outside the squadron carried far more weight than your flight mates. Who, realistically, probably would have been a bit too busy to notice who shot down what in most cases.

And as I also said, I got hit stats (assuming you meant number of bullets fired and number of hits) even on 'normal' setting and my hits and the kill showed up in the mission review. I did notice that there was an 'N/A' in the claims column. Maybe that's what you meant by hit stats, Pol. And the claim form didn't show up without my prompting it, unlike what I was used to in 'easy'. I just put that down to the N/A.

Anyway, I'm about to restart my career with it set to 'easy'.

**edit**
On 'easy' there were 0's in the claim column. Can't speak to any of the rest because I'd turned off 'forced encounters'. I'll turn that back on after a couple more flights, unless I get some action without it. I've got 'regional activity' set to historic, so 1916 might be a little slow.


@Lou:
Just make sure you sign it out and drive it yourself. The enlisted men have better things to do with their time.

Last edited by vonBaur; 05/16/21 01:19 AM.

SALUTE TO ALL!
#4568628 - 05/16/21 12:37 PM Re: About Early Victories [Re: vonBaur]  
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Becker01 Offline
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Hallo,

IMHO a claim with "normal claim" is no random. But the problem is, that the claim-system is very complicated and for the user it is not clear how it works. It's like a black box. So the user doesn't understand the decision from the system. He gets the feeling of good / bad luck. So maybe this setting should be more clear, more transparent, or equiped with a new special feature to make your claim.

The advantage with "easy claim" is the simple fact, that you must not ask yourself if you have made a claim or not.The system says it to you. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN, THAT THE SYSTEM CONFIRMS YOUR CLAIM AUTOMATICALLY! You must know, what you write for your claim. If you write "waste" it is possible, that the system rejects your claim. I have tested it sometimes and not every claim was beeing confirmed.

So "easy claim" is a good middle-way with this system at the moment.

Greetings!

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