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#4567816 - 05/09/21 02:12 PM Opinions needed, please vote!  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Crashin' Jack Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Crashin' Jack  Offline
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Illinois, USA
I am working on making historically correct, high resolution cockpit instrument panels, and I have found myself in a dilemma. Your input would be appreciated!

Looking at British aircraft, the historically correct airspeed gauge looks like this (for a Typhoon, but others are similar)

Image A:
[Linked Image]

Notice that the gauge goes full circle using the outer rim numbers, before it doubles on itself to use the inner numbers, to reach speeds up to 550 mph. The gauge displayed in our game for the same cockpit looks like this:

Image B:
[Linked Image]

This gauge uses only one revolution for 0 to 500 mph. It's not historically accurate, but it is the default set up.

I CAN tweak the gauge to overlap as it should in the first image, but only a small amount, somewhere between the 350 to 400 mph marks as shown on the first gauge.

What are the preferences? A, or B?


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4567862 - 05/09/21 07:42 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Rotton50 Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Rotton50  Offline
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Posts: 4,859
Cape Charles, Virginia, USA
A realistic gauge would be great, especially one that operates the way you describe.

But it sounds like you'd have to 'squish' the hash marks on the gauge to squeeze in the MPH numbers, which would make them less accurate.

OTOH, I don't think any of the speed gauges on any aircraft in the entire EAW inventory are all that accurate to begin with, more of a general idea about whether you are at landing, cruise or max safe speed so maybe for historical esthetics you should do it.

Maybe you should give it a go with this one gauge and show us how it looks in the cockpit.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4567877 - 05/09/21 09:52 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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Crashin' Jack  Offline
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Here is the new Typhoon, though the airspeed gauge is incorrect.

[Linked Image]

The second gauge in the first post has the default game gauge. It is pretty darn close in showing the actual airspeed, as compared to the data in the lower left of your screen. This is easily set, and can be adjusted, in the cockpit editor or hex edited after the fact.

The needle can be made to go past zero, though, but only to about the 8 oclock position. This would be a bit more accurate historically speaking, but only marginally so. I am leaning towards using the default style; you only really need it when landing, and to be honest not overlapping seems clearer.

But every other gauge is historically correct, I need a push off the cliff to let this one go, LOL!


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4567890 - 05/10/21 12:06 AM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Dec 2000
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Boom Offline
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Boom  Offline
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Culcairn
My personal opinion is that if the new gauge (first photo) cannot accurately function to it's full potential in EAW, then leave the default one in place.

Now if you could improve clarity on that, that would be a big step forward.


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#4567896 - 05/10/21 12:59 AM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Crashin' Jack  Offline
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Thanks for the comment, Pips.

So here is the alternate. I think it will do the job.

[Linked Image]

There were gauges like this in use, but they were pretty rare, I've only found one Spitfire picture I think with this gauge in.

A note about the behavior of the gauge: If you enter a mission via instant action, it will not initially read correctly. This only seems to happen with the airspeed, when airstarting. If you dive and max out the speed, it corrects. Likewise, because it begins at zero, groundstarting causes the gauge to read correctly.

Now I just have to move the #%&*$# gunsight cable !


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4567907 - 05/10/21 07:03 AM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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MrJelly Offline
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MrJelly  Offline
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I agree with Pips wink


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#4567917 - 05/10/21 10:05 AM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Rotton50 Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Rotton50  Offline
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Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Cape Charles, Virginia, USA
One thing.

I think you should move the whole gauge cluster closer to the player. There's a lot of empty space around the edges.

I did that with all of the aircraft in the 1.6 inventory and it made the old gauges a lot better.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4567938 - 05/10/21 01:32 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Oct 2003
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Crashin' Jack Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Crashin' Jack  Offline
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Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2003
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Illinois, USA
I have completed building the gauge sets for the British default aircraft, plus the Mosquito. I have also made new gunsights for all, which in some cases involved other parts of the cockpit (Ray, I'll be sending you these shortly). After a lot of deliberating on the rest of the cockpit detail, I am going to forego, for the time being, any changes other than the instrument panel elements themselves. So the next step will be splitting the cockpit into v and w combinations for the tpc and 3dz files, repaint the panels in the correct black colors, which will also mean painting the gauge background colors to match. That will be super simple as the background is a single layer in Photoshop.

At that point, I think I can fine tune the placement of the gauges. This can include enlarging the elements, as well as pulling the cluster closer as Ray suggests, but that can also make them fuzzier if they are too close. I'm really trying for a correct feel, as per photos from inside cockpits, in regards to clarity versus size of the gauges.

Cheers,

CJ


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4567939 - 05/10/21 01:39 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Rotton50 Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Rotton50  Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Cape Charles, Virginia, USA
From my experience the gauges didn't get noticeably fuzzy when bringing them closer. With your much improved ones I doubt this is an issue.

On the clarity vs size, you will have to decide between historical accuracy and playability.

For my creations, I lean towards playability.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4567947 - 05/10/21 03:30 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Crashin' Jack Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Crashin' Jack  Offline
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Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Illinois, USA
Just did some tests with different distances, this is what found.

With default gauges, moving them closer does make them more readable, but the pixilation is more noticeable - this is what I was thinking of when I said they were fuzzier.

With the newer gauges, moving them 20 clicks closer gives a slight fuzziness, but it is only noticeable when compared side to side, making Ray's point of clarity essentially true.

However, doing so causes the gauges to take up more space horizontally and vertically, causing them to overlap the sides of the cockpit. Now you need to push the gauges closer together, which works to an extent, but makes the panels historically inaccurate if they are pushed too far together.

I have also started to run into rendering issues, with even a modest push of 20 increments closer.

So, I can achieve the same effect by simply making the gauge elements a bit larger. If the panel is further away from the pilot's sitting position, you can make an element 6 increments wide, instead of 3. This gives you finer control over the different sized gauges. For instance, the 6 gauges on a typical blind flying panel are up to twice the size of a radiator temp gauge. If the artificial horizon is in it's default position, it is 3 increments wide - but the radiator temp is too big at 2 increments, too small at 1 increment. Move the panel back, double the size of the artificial horizon to six, now the radiator gauge is 3 and the correct size. Since the image used is now a 512x512 bmp instead of a 256x256 pcx, the gauges can remain clear, and be a bit further away, allowing for many more non-functioning gauges to be placed on the panel for a historically correct view.

My whole purpose in this endeavor is to take advantage of the larger format to give us clear gauges in a historically correct view. The images I post don't perhaps give it justice, but the instruments are very crisp in game for me at 1920x1080.

It's a lot of fiddily bits now, playing with the sizes of the gauges and the distance from the pilots view point


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4567954 - 05/10/21 05:29 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: MrJelly]  
Joined: Aug 2000
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Moggy Offline
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Moggy  Offline
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Originally Posted by MrJelly
I agree with Pips wink


I agree with Jel

#4567966 - 05/10/21 06:08 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Sep 2004
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SkyHigh Offline
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SkyHigh  Offline
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Ireland
I'm on the Pips side. Functionality is primary. I have every confidence you will find a nice graphic result without compromising that functinality. Thanks for all your efforts. And how's your shoulder problems? I hope you can lift a pint on your breaks from all this creativity!

#4568044 - 05/11/21 01:14 PM Re: Opinions needed, please vote! [Re: SkyHigh]  
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RIBob Offline
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RIBob  Offline
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Concur with others that full functionality is essential.


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