#4567543 - 05/07/21 01:54 AM
Re: Viper seems to have better stealth than comanche
[Re: Reticuli]
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 49
Hijongpark
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 49
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I haven't noticed the Viper any less vulnerable to detection than the Apache A or the Kiowa. Then, why they spot Apache D and comanche extremely well ?
Last edited by Hijongpark; 05/07/21 01:54 AM.
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#4567547 - 05/07/21 02:43 AM
Re: Viper seems to have better stealth than comanche
[Re: Hijongpark]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,132
Reticuli
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
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The enemy shouldn't spot the Comanche well at a distance if she's all buttoned up, the EFAMS wing stubs aren't attached, and the radar is off. The issue is that Comanche gives themselves away too easily and quickly when you turn on the radar or fire on anyone. The FLIR isn't working so great anymore. You also can't call in artillery or air strikes or really even designate targets well for wingmen in later portions of campaigns when flights are more mixed. The AI seems to become rapidly omnipotent and there's not much you can do about it yet. Then there's the issue of SAM detection of aircraft in general. Change logs indicated this was made more nuanced, but it still seems quite rapid and all-seeing. It certainly isn't an easy sim. Have you found the Viper is better to get in close to SAMs than the Comanche? If I use the Comanche just for recon and don't engage targets, I seem definitely able to get closer to SAMs without being shot at. Viper seems like a vulnerable target to me when I'm in it, particularly with its glitchy FLIR. I did, however, increase the durability of the Viper in my GWUT: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n3DUCoXDh0JvFSObCKLLLtqZnI6lPRzS/view?usp=sharingHere's my ini again, too, and obviously your joystick config will be different. I am using FM 0 and all in-sim dynamics settings ON. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tXP7UzHE4r_dbfTfqzYNDBE_rIBpzRpU/view?usp=sharingMy in-sim Realism settings are as follows: Novice On Realistic Hard On
Last edited by Reticuli; 05/07/21 03:07 AM.
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#4567557 - 05/07/21 05:06 AM
Re: Viper seems to have better stealth than comanche
[Re: Reticuli]
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 49
Hijongpark
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 49
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The enemy shouldn't spot the Comanche well at a distance if she's all buttoned up, the EFAMS wing stubs aren't attached, and the radar is off. The issue is that Comanche gives themselves away too easily and quickly when you turn on the radar or fire on anyone. The FLIR isn't working so great anymore. You also can't call in artillery or air strikes or really even designate targets well for wingmen in later portions of campaigns when flights are more mixed. The AI seems to become rapidly omnipotent and there's not much you can do about it yet. Then there's the issue of SAM detection of aircraft in general. Change logs indicated this was made more nuanced, but it still seems quite rapid and all-seeing. It certainly isn't an easy sim. Have you found the Viper is better to get in close to SAMs than the Comanche? If I use the Comanche just for recon and don't engage targets, I seem definitely able to get closer to SAMs without being shot at. Viper seems like a vulnerable target to me when I'm in it, particularly with its glitchy FLIR. I did, however, increase the durability of the Viper in my GWUT: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n3DUCoXDh0JvFSObCKLLLtqZnI6lPRzS/view?usp=sharingHere's my ini again, too, and obviously your joystick config will be different. I am using FM 0 and all in-sim dynamics settings ON. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tXP7UzHE4r_dbfTfqzYNDBE_rIBpzRpU/view?usp=sharingMy in-sim Realism settings are as follows: Novice On Realistic Hard On I think losing FLIR lock is related the smokes hiding the target, I'd try smoke = 0.0 in eech.ini
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#4567620 - 05/07/21 05:09 PM
Re: Viper seems to have better stealth than comanche
[Re: Hijongpark]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,132
Reticuli
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Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
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I think losing FLIR lock is related the smokes hiding the target, I'd try smoke = 0.0 in eech.ini
I didn't expect that to do anything, and smoke effectiveness to zero didn't. Happens with everything in newer EECH mod versions, including trying to track helos that are high above the ground and don't emit smoke. It's like someone wanted to make the FLIR auto lock less effective at distance and they way overdid it. Seems worse on the Kiowa, Zulu/Viper, and Blackshark, but the test I just did was from the Comanche and it still kept flickering off the target. Even at a range of 1500 it was still flickering some. Heck, I'd be fine with us removing the radar from the Comanche in theory, but obviously with the state of the FLIR targeting right now that'd be unwise. I seen no indication of ground stabilization working anymore, either. Also, the light hazy horizon is really annoying. Not sure why someone made it light colored when it can be made dark in the FLIR. It's even light colored at night! Not an issue in EECH2. Wonder if that somehow is part of the FLIR calculations, though. Certainly it reduces visibility in the FLIR itself. And I'm getting pretty frequent CTDs in 1.16.2 in Cuba right now after returning back to this version after trying Messy's BH pit. I mean, his had problems, but I'm getting similar problems just with the stock 1.16.2 exe, too. Just ran the debug version of 1.16.2 and it came up with some ASSERT paths terrain nodes thing from a mystery J drive. This is way less stable than it used to be prior to the BH additions. The FLIR problem was a pre-existing issue, though. Hell, it CTDs just clicking on a Cuba save game even before jumping into it. Now I got another one on the Lebanon map just flying around. At least I got into that map... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A8FFU_UxkJTHSyC3j_80Qh8cvO_q_IHI/view?usp=sharing
Last edited by Reticuli; 05/07/21 05:57 PM.
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#4568460 - 05/14/21 10:33 PM
Re: Viper seems to have better stealth than comanche
[Re: Hijongpark]
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,883
messyhead
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I noticed this line in the 1.16.0 release notes, so maybe that's done something to have an undesired effect? New way of stealth factor calculation for helicopters There's also this in the 1.15.2 notes New way of stealth factor calculation (radar detection range multiplier) : - Closed weapons bay (Comanche only) decrease stealth factor 40%
- Detached stub wings (Comanche and Kiowa Warrior) decrease stealth factor 35%
- Raised landing gears (helicopters with retractable gears) decrease stealth factor 10%
The Viper code is based on the Comanche's.
Last edited by messyhead; 05/14/21 10:38 PM.
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#4568491 - 05/15/21 08:19 AM
Re: Viper seems to have better stealth than comanche
[Re: messyhead]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,132
Reticuli
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Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,132
Dayton, OH, USA
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I noticed this line in the 1.16.0 release notes, so maybe that's done something to have an undesired effect? New way of stealth factor calculation for helicopters There's also this in the 1.15.2 notes New way of stealth factor calculation (radar detection range multiplier) : - Closed weapons bay (Comanche only) decrease stealth factor 40%
- Detached stub wings (Comanche and Kiowa Warrior) decrease stealth factor 35%
- Raised landing gears (helicopters with retractable gears) decrease stealth factor 10%
The Viper code is based on the Comanche's. Weird... a mildly-LO Kiowa in the sim. I recall seeing that new stealth stuff before. I'm wondering if perhaps this badly-worded description of the new altered LO modeling might not apply to the Viper if it is indeed based on the Comanche code. Maybe the Viper is based on the older code and the older code might have been not just simplistic but more liberal in the LO aspects of the Comanche. Could explain what Hijongpark is seeing. However, if the Viper is not only based on the Comanche but also the newer LO, then perhaps it's a glitch in how the sim 'knows' the Comanche stub wings, bay, and gear are all exposed on the Viper.
Last edited by Reticuli; 05/28/21 09:30 PM.
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