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#4543998 - 11/08/20 09:49 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Maybe nothing interesting to show, but it is still interesting to read about the progress and what you are having to do to get this to fruition.
Many thanks for sharing this project with us.


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#4545775 - 11/23/20 12:21 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Hi, apologies for the late reply, but I've only just seen this. Lots been happening this week, preparing the workshop for the next phase. This is being done because I'm still working out some niggles with the rivet supplier, in terms of the tool-head dimensions. Until that's squared away I can't really get on with the CAD side of things for the extrusion and internal fittings for the standard geodetic joints. I'll be doing a film on the latter, as well as the workshop changes, in the coming days.

Basically I've moved the workbench to near the doors, which gives more room to the right of the bench, and put the displaced shelving where the bench previously resided. I also added several square feet of pegboard between the vertical shelf-rails - attached to inch square batten inboard of the rails - so I can hang all my tools above the new bench position. This form of workshop storage is really flexible, as it can be used as tool-hanging space with or without shelving, or just used as shelving. As needs change over the course of a big project like this that flexibility is really handy. Tomorrow I'm moving all the mini-draw boxes full of nuts and bolts etc to the window area, they'll not be in the way of the rotating-jig. There's also a bit of "lighting" revision to do, as the whole lighting set-up was designed for the old bench position. Never thought I'd had to move it! Heigh ho.

So after 10 days of utter chaos, with tools and stuff all over the place, I've now got it back in order, thank God. A long overdue clear-out was done concurrently liberating a good deal of space. The house is still a mess. but the workshop's becoming presentable again! With such a large airframe, in such a small workshop, I have to get a bit "creative" with storage/layout.
I've just put up a new film on youtube, covering the recent changes to the workshop in readiness for commencing metal-work, and a short look at the two types of standard joints on the Wellington airframe.



Last edited by Fidd; 11/24/20 07:12 PM. Reason: link addition
#4559419 - 03/11/21 02:13 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Hi all,

It's been a good while since I last posted. As the Australians put it, my workshop is "colder than a witch's tit" just now, so I've mainly been inside in the warm, working on the CAD side of the project, specifically producing a final set of drawings of the cross-section of the alloy extrusions of the geodetic members, and then drawings of the 4 different fittings required for the two types of joints which take care of over 95% of the metalwork joints on the airframe. During the course of doing this I sought quotes for producing these fittings via CNC machining, some 13,000 parts in all. I'd budgeted £1000 for this, so was greatly dismayed to recieve two quotes around the £17,000 mark, Ouch! Talking this over with some other chaps in the same racket, it looks as if I'll be sourcing a small number of the more complex and expensive parts, using these with a silicone mould, and then using the wax positives to investment cast batches of the fittings in alloy, filing and drilling them as required after the casting. It'll take a while, but be a HUGE cost saving. Most kindly, one of them has offered me the loan of a small forge. I don't mind doing this as it's always fun to learn a new skill!

I made a new film shewing how the extruded alloy will be curved, and how my miniaturised form of geodetic node (joint) will go together. In theory!

More to follow as things take shape later in the year.


#4559686 - 03/13/21 02:01 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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How come you don't work for Elon Musk designing spacecraft?

Seriously. I do so enjoy your amazing work, thanks for sharing it with us.


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#4559850 - 03/14/21 12:00 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Hehe, I don't think Mr Musk would be awfully impressed with 1930's technology, but I find it interesting, nor least because the advent of cargo carrying drones has put this engineering solution of geodetics right back in the speed-range where it thrives. I'm in no way trained as an engineer, I used to work on motorcycle engines, so I've a little mechanical common-sense, and a willingness to learn new skills, otherwise this is all new to me too. Not sure Mr Musk would employ me!

! Spent most of today on the PC trying out some alternative shapes and configurations for the V joint sheer fittings - the red and green ones in the film above. As it looks as if these will be cast, and then machined, I replaced all the 2mm and 1.66mm holes for the rivets and machine screws. respectively, to small "dimples" in the surface where I need to drill. The "dimple" should be much easier to mould, and I'll use it like a punched-centre when it comes to drilling them. I also need to design and 3d print a little "steady" into which these fittings can be clamped, with the required holes through the "steady", so that I can drop the drill through the hole onto the work, and get repeatably accurate hole spacing when drilling the shear fitting.

Pics to follow when complete, and of course I'll post a film when the casting gets underway, Things should start happening soon now. The extrusions will be done first, and then if needbe, the internal fittings can be adjusted in dimensions to the reality of the extrusion dimensions, before moulding and casting. That can't occur until lock-down is over in the UK, as I need to borrow a lot of the gear and be shewn how to do it all.


Last edited by Fidd; 03/14/21 12:03 AM.
#4559980 - 03/14/21 07:03 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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duplicate post deleted

Last edited by Fidd; 03/14/21 09:39 PM. Reason: duplicate
#4560036 - 03/15/21 03:07 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Fidd, don't sell your self short sir, this is some amazing work. On the hobbyist level it's on the moon.

You might enjoy this guy. He's a trained engineer, but his hands on skills and knowledge are truly amazing to me.

Like you, it's all about attention to detail. Just on a different scale.



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#4560334 - 03/17/21 02:41 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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I wonder if this bloke has thought through the implications of the cockpit being towards "air-tight", from the point of view of carbon-monoxide getting inside through the firewall. Hope he's got a good detector in there. I got CO poisoning, twice, flying a bloody French built Cessna 150 aerobat, which had a really bloody awful reputation for CO ingress. Happily I was able to open the windows on that in flight, stick my head out and take lungfulls of clean air, whilst landing with some alacrity. The silencer had fallen away from the exhaust manifold. Again!

There's a reason why light aircraft cockpits are not built "air-tight".

Last edited by Fidd; 03/17/21 02:43 AM.
#4560358 - 03/17/21 11:50 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Originally Posted by Fidd
I wonder if this bloke has thought through the implications of the cockpit being towards "air-tight", from the point of view of carbon-monoxide getting inside through the firewall. Hope he's got a good detector in there. I got CO poisoning, twice, flying a bloody French built Cessna 150 aerobat, which had a really bloody awful reputation for CO ingress. Happily I was able to open the windows on that in flight, stick my head out and take lungfulls of clean air, whilst landing with some alacrity. The silencer had fallen away from the exhaust manifold. Again!

There's a reason why light aircraft cockpits are not built "air-tight".


Crikey mate you were lucky to be aware of the life-threatening problem!
One reads accounts of the loss of Hawker Typhoon pilots due to CO inhaltion; though I can imagine the suffocating effects were more pronounced and quick with the volume chucked out by the massive Sabre plant!



#4560371 - 03/17/21 12:55 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123

Crikey mate you were lucky to be aware of the life-threatening problem!
One reads accounts of the loss of Hawker Typhoon pilots due to CO inhaltion; though I can imagine the suffocating effects were more pronounced and quick with the volume chucked out by the massive Sabre plant!


Got a few mouth fulls of exhaust while racing an inboard hydroplane. It was almost upchuck time. Thankfully it was of short duration.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4560576 - 03/19/21 04:19 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123


Crikey mate you were lucky to be aware of the life-threatening problem!
One reads accounts of the loss of Hawker Typhoon pilots due to CO inhaltion; though I can imagine the suffocating effects were more pronounced and quick with the volume chucked out by the massive Sabre plant!


No, just well trained. I only had a light dose of it, with symptoms of confusion and feeling "disconnected" from what I was doing. I was an AFI at the time holding the UK Basic Commercial Pilots licence, and the perils and symptoms of CO poisoning were taught to us even at that level, pretty extensively, I was later an ATPL/IR and QFI, still teaching on light aircraft, but lads who were going on to take their commercial GFT (included the NFT), Needless to say, I was a positive misery about CO poisoning, and the detectors being present, in good order, and in date, with the students there-after. CO poisoning is not unlike nitrogen narcosis for divers, one of the very first thing you lose, is the capacity for analytical thought such as "why am I feeling like crap?" for example!

The F150 we had was notorious for this fault developing, as so those of us who flew it were very much on the qui vivre for it occurring. There's no strong smell or fumes with it, so it's a bit of an insidious killer, which is why duff gas boilers are so dangerous. That said, cases of it in aviation are fairly rare, especially fatal ones. Anoxia is much more common, as a killer. Normally someone on board twigs and counter-measures taken with CO poisoning. Aside from the mother and father of all migraines after, I suffered no lasting ill-effects, excepting a determination never to experience it again!

#4565271 - 04/20/21 01:11 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Hi all,
It's been quite a while since I last posted. There's nothing much to show for the last few months, but a lot of parts of the project are developing nicely. The cost of using CNC machining to make the small internal fittings for the geodetic joints proved to be beyond my resources, so instead I'll get short runs of them done, without the holes, and cast them in alloy. But I have confirmed I can get a small batch done, sufficient for mould-making purposes. I'm now on the cusp of of ordering the alloy extrusions, which will be in a fairly soft, ductile (stretchable) alloy. Once they've been curved and notched as required, I'll return the lo the extrusion company who can then temper them to a stiffer form.

So, it's taken a few months of CAD, and talking to numerous companies to get to this point, but I now hope this summer to be making un-tempered test-shapes for destructive testing - high vibration environment - to see of the build method can withstand the likely engine vibrations. or not! In other news, I'm am seriously considering making my Mk IC Wellington an early one, still equipped with the F25 "mid-under" ventral turret, so may do some CAD work on that. A decision to build it will be taken right at the end of the build when the actual C of G is known, as the F25 is well aft of the C of G and so a lot will depend on where the airframe plus engines C of G comes out at, as to whether - or not - the F25 model is viable to add from a C of G point of view.

#4567104 - 05/04/21 01:49 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Thanks for the update Fidd.

Looking forward to more pics as you progress.


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#4567395 - 05/05/21 09:49 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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That's how projects go, eh? Looking forward to seeing the outcome of all the work you're doing now, I'm sure it will be worth the wait, Fidd. :-)


looks very modernishy-phoney-windows eighty-tabletty like

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#4578526 - 08/29/21 12:20 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Hi all,
Apologies for the very long interval between posts. I've had some personal issues to deal with which threw a sizeable spanner in the works of this project, however the end of all that is in sight. Mindful of the need to start getting my RC tickets sorted and to get lots of flying experience I started RC flying with a little electric E-flight "Apprentice", which I flew from ab initio for around 100 hours of flight. I had my first and only crash when I'd started flying aerobatics after a prolonged period of circuit-bashing to develop consistent circuit patterns with regard to the wind on the day. The crash occurred because having finished some aerobatics I forgot to change from "high rate" to "low rate" for the landing, and having made a bit of a hash of an approach "went around". The model went suddenly near-vertical and did a "beautiful" power-on spin-entry faster than you can say knife, and hit the ground hard from about 15 feet. A period in the workshop followed attending to a deformed motor-mount and a snapped fuselage just forward of the tail-plane. I've since flown about another 50 hours, with no further frights or prangs. What is becoming apparent is that this is not a model capable of intensive flying, as I've been having issues with the plastic covering of the tail-plane debonding and then fluttering itself to destruction very quickly. One such debond caused elevator flutter which tore away the starboard side of the elevator in seconds, so landed with half an elevator and bits falling off the model in flight. A new and disagreeable experience!

In order to keep up the flying whilst the good weather persists, I've bought a 2nd model, a Hawker Hurricane with a 1450mm wingspan. I chose the Hurricane because of it's inherent stability and forgiving flight characteristics, but primarily because of the wide under-cart, relative to the Spitfire. Retracting wheels will add some interest to flying it. Pic attached of a similar one in flight - mine's on back-order.

As regards the Wellington, I'm still trying to get my beans in a row to solve all outstanding issues to fabricate both straight and curved geodetics and the required internal fittings, the major hurdle currently is not the engineering side, it's the cost of getting the small fittings used in the two joint types made at an acceptable cost. The cheapest I've found so far is £16,000 which is orders of magnitude higher than I'd expected. So that tricky. But I'll keep bashing at it until there's a result.

Cheers,

Attached Files Hur4.jpg
#4578957 - 09/02/21 10:15 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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£16,000

for "small fittings"??

Ouch.


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#4583637 - 10/26/21 06:49 AM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
£16,000

for "small fittings"??

Ouch.


Some good news here. I've been looking at using CNC cut multiple layers of very thin plywood to make a 2d representation of the the geodetics. By making a laminate structures, and temporarily clamping them as they are fitted but before they are glued, I should be able to achieve the twist required as a well as the bend, and then glue them to make the channel under pressure. This gets rid of a great many of the required fittings, and more importantly, the ones which are 3d, as opposed to cut-outs of 2d metal sheet, can be done away with. It also means I don't have to try bending extruded alloy members. It will mean a ton of CAD work, but I'm more au fait with that these days, so it holds less horror than it did when I first went down the rabbit hole of extruded pieces.

The hurricane insignia is now gradually going on, pics to follow.

#4584249 - 11/02/21 04:02 PM Re: FN5 turrets for RC Wellington 1:4.5 [Re: Fidd]  
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Hi all,

The Hurricane is now completed, and salted away whilst I purchase the electronics and new Transmitter to work all the flight surfaces and the pan and tilt mechanism for the FPV camera later on. The painting went well, and I was very pleased with the way the 303 Sqn and Polish insignia came out using the stencils I did in CAD which were cut out with peerless service by chatura@expocncondemand.com . This guy was superb in resolving technical problems caused by the very very small and complex stencils, but also would not take any money for the materials that were wasted during the course of making them, right at the bleeding-edge of what is possible to achieve with a CNC driven drag-knife. I cannot recommend him highly enough for stencil work.

I'm gradually getting a little better at making films, now with adding text and doing a narration sound-track independent of the footage. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I had a go at using oil-paint to do a "pin-wash" on the panel lines near the engine, to emphasise the metal end of the Hurricane, and also added "chipped paintwork" to all the panels which routinely were removed for servicing or re-arming. All roundels and other lettering/insignia was painted via stencils, and the Dynham Hurricane "stickers" for same consigned to oblivion. The finished paintwork including all insignias is viewable on the film below. The Wellington project remains stalled for now, as I find a cheaper means of producing the internal fittings for the geodetics jounts.




303 Sqn Insignia

Polish National Insignia

Finished Hurricane

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