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#4566028 - 04/26/21 03:22 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: VonS]  
Joined: Oct 2019
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orbyxP Offline
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Washington State
Originally Posted by VonS

for spring/summer

<Bumps
windSmoothPeriod_secs="3"
localWindScaleVert_pct="190"
localWindScaleHorz_pct="280"
localWindFieldPerAircraft="y"
clearTurbulenceScale_pct="260"
cloudTurbulenceScale_pct="350"
groundBumpsVerticalScale_pct="330"
groundBumpsPitchScale_pct="170"
groundBumpsRollScale_pct="380"
/>

for autumn

<Bumps
windSmoothPeriod_secs="8"
localWindScaleVert_pct="170"
localWindScaleHorz_pct="250"
localWindFieldPerAircraft="y"
clearTurbulenceScale_pct="210"
cloudTurbulenceScale_pct="330"
groundBumpsVerticalScale_pct="290"
groundBumpsPitchScale_pct="140"
groundBumpsRollScale_pct="360"
/>

for winter

<Bumps
windSmoothPeriod_secs="12"
localWindScaleVert_pct="120"
localWindScaleHorz_pct="210"
localWindFieldPerAircraft="y"
clearTurbulenceScale_pct="150"
cloudTurbulenceScale_pct="240"
groundBumpsVerticalScale_pct="230"
groundBumpsPitchScale_pct="90"
groundBumpsRollScale_pct="280"
/>

for slightly different gun-jam values and varied frustration, try:

gunsJam="y"
unjamProbability_frac="0.35"
unjamMinInterval_secs="5"

for individual fighter_v_fighter settings, to have them still fighting you even if lightly/moderately damaged, before turning home, try:

fightThreshold="-2"
withdrawThreshold="-3"

for slightly more varied AI maneuvers/responses, with novices sometimes being more clumsy, try:

<Maneuvers
acePlusEffort="1"
aceEffort="0.95"
veteranEffort="0.9"
noviceEffort="0.8">



Interesting, I'd like to learn how you go about testing these values, especially the maneuvers? Is there a range you've established on the minus and positive sides or are these random numbers? ditto for the gun jam and wind bump values.

If you don't want to post it here, then I don't mind continuing this discussion via PM when you have time.

#4566032 - 04/26/21 04:07 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Joe,

I originally discovered (after OBD, of course) that the fightThreshold and withdrawThreshold had an effect on the AI's willingness to fight. The normal setting is 0 and -1, I think, but this makes the AI more timid. I found that settings of -2 and -3 made the AI more willing to stay in the fight for a longer period of time. Of course, this was all tested on WOFF UE and PE, so I don't know what effect it might have on the more aggressive AI in BHaH2. You can also try -1 and -2, if you wish. Keep in mind that these are global settings, so it will effect the behavior of all AI fighters (there are separate settings for recon and bombers).

I even made a mod so you can set the scout AI to either timid, normal, or bold, but I don't know how to program it to randomly choose which level to set. JJJ could probably do it, but he has been very busy, so I haven't asked him.

VonS is the expert on the wind settings, although I know a little about them. I can tell you that these are NOT random numbers.

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 04/26/21 04:12 AM.

“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4566041 - 04/26/21 07:28 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Posts: 382
Becker01 Offline
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Hallo @vonS,

thank you for this very interesting work! I will try it in a quiet moment (to avoid mistakes ... ).
I have only one question: is there a connection between all these factors / parameters to the windspeed in the briefing? I suppose not, the "wind affects player" is a way "to feel" wind / turbulence, independing on the briefing. Right?

Greetings!

#4566042 - 04/26/21 07:32 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: Becker01]  
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Posts: 936
VonS Offline
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Originally Posted by Becker01
Hallo @vonS,

thank you for this very interesting work! I will try it in a quiet moment (to avoid mistakes ... ).
I have only one question: is there a connection between all these factors / parameters to the windspeed in the briefing? I suppose not, the "wind affects player" is a way "to feel" wind / turbulence, independing on the briefing. Right?

Greetings!


Hello Becker, from what I've been able to test in QC mode and also in campaign flghts, these parameters (specifically the bumps section) affect wind and turbulence when flying, but wind speed in briefings, also wind direction, etc. - are all determined either by WOFF, or further by JJJ's MissionEd if you follow/allow for the custom wind settings within the MissionEd, in conjunction with BB's clouds mod. (ver. 2.9 or 3.0) that should also be activated via JSGME in order for the full variety of winds and wind speeds, and weather types, to be accessible.

My comments, by the way, are only with reference to UE/PE vers. of WOFF - I am assuming that the directions will all work similarly in BHAH.II too, but there may be a further amplifying effect to the bumps section because wind/turbulence effects, judging from the posts in this thread, are already stronger in BHAH.II when compared to stock settings in UE/PE. Always make a backup of the stock simulation.xml file in whatever ver. of WOFF you are running, before attempting the tweaks. I recommend setting such tweaks up to be JSGME-friendly (much easier to load/swap things out that way).

Cheers all,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 04/26/21 07:41 AM. Reason: Edited post.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4566047 - 04/26/21 08:54 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Becker01 Offline
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@vonS:
Okay, thanks for info.
OBD has made a great work with " wind affects player" in BH&H2; no real reason to change anything. It was more a question of perfectionism. I will keep your interesting work in the background.

So I end the topic for myself now.

Greetings and happy flying!

#4566053 - 04/26/21 10:02 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Polovski Offline
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Posts: 8,138
Really the default setup in WOFF BH&H II is now pretty good, no really need to fiddle with wind or bumps in this version. Bear in mind bumps can effect various aircraft at various fields differently on take off and landing too in any version.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4566199 - 04/27/21 02:46 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Washington State
Thank you for the detailed explanation, but now....I'm at a loss....

I compared the simulation.xml file between PE and BH&HII. There is basically very little difference in wind and combat maneuvers. However, gun jams seemed adjusted. Which makes me think that a large portion of the features/changes are not in the files, but maybe hardcoded.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Attached Files wind.jpgGun Jam.jpgcombat.jpgcombat.jpg
Last edited by orbyxP; 04/27/21 02:51 AM.
#4566202 - 04/27/21 03:10 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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VonS Offline
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@Orbyx, I am 99% sure that fundamental changes in winds, turbulence, and of course the new FM/DM changes - have happened under the hood, so to speak, in BHAH.II (I am assuming via code in the WOFF.exe itself). Pleased to see that my own gun jam/unjam adjustments in FrankenWOFF are closer to default specs. in BHAH.II - regarding winds, there is some difference in terms of cloud turbulence scales, I see from those pics., and also in the bumpsrollscale values - I would guess that turbulence scales have been reduced in the xml file since already stronger under the hood in BHAH.II. Groundproximitythreshold I haven't touched in my files. I am assuming that it works in conjunction with AI minimum alt. that I set via JJJ's MultiMod (have set the latter to 50 meters in my case).

Groundbumpsrollscale is somewhat of an ambiguous entry - it does not necessarily result in immediate rolling, left or right, but instead seems to be a kind of buffeting effect that very gradually turns an aircraft's left or right wing slightly up, so that it veers in one or the other direction - based on my observations in WOFF 4.18 and 5.03. I can't comment more thoroughly on any of those other numbers in the BHAH.II pics. that you have kindly provided since I have yet to purchase it.

Happy flying and tweaking,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 04/28/21 02:59 AM. Reason: Edited post.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4566214 - 04/27/21 05:47 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Wind turbulence data is overwritten in simulation.xml file before each mission in respect to mission weather state (light/medium or heavy). However, I do not want to reveal more to do not spoil your immersion. I am going to update Multimod for BHaH2 compatibility, so you will get a chance to adjust wind turbulence levels per your wish. For example, Global Wind Scale Horizontal Value in heavy weather is rather too high by my taste (or aircraft roll damping value is too low) now resulting in excessive roll oscillations.

#4566250 - 04/27/21 04:27 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Wodin Offline
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I think the wind is very under powered when it comes to flying into a strong headwind etc. Many pilots experienced a horrible time trying to get back across entente front line due to strong winds. This I don't experience in game.

#4566251 - 04/27/21 04:28 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: Polovski]  
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Wodin Offline
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Originally Posted by Polovski
As the guys say we think it's fairly realistic and it will vary depending on weather of course. If you personally don't like it you can turn it off for the player craft only in workshop for example. We'd recommend you don't but the option is there. No need to start hacking the sim at this stage but each to their own.


Far more real feeling now.

#4566258 - 04/27/21 05:26 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: Wodin]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Originally Posted by Wodin
I think the wind is very under powered when it comes to flying into a strong headwind etc. Many pilots experienced a horrible time trying to get back across entente front line due to strong winds. This I don't experience in game.

Yes, wind is underpowered, because otherwise the lateral turbulence would be unflyable and kill AI pilots. That is why I implemented the wind speed control to Mission Editor and turbulence settings to Multimod. I personally prefer higher wind speeds and low or moderate turbulence bumpings.

#4566261 - 04/27/21 05:59 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: JJJ65]  
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Wodin Offline
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Liverpool
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by Wodin
I think the wind is very under powered when it comes to flying into a strong headwind etc. Many pilots experienced a horrible time trying to get back across entente front line due to strong winds. This I don't experience in game.

Yes, wind is underpowered, because otherwise the lateral turbulence would be unflyable and kill AI pilots. That is why I implemented the wind speed control to Mission Editor and turbulence settings to Multimod. I personally prefer higher wind speeds and low or moderate turbulence bumpings.


OK I see.

#4566301 - 04/28/21 12:42 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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VonS Offline
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Thank you JJJ for those clarifications - I have also noticed that some of the bumps entries are modified further via missions, also via the MultiMod, whereas other entries, such as the windsmooth entry, in secs., stays the same after a modified simulation.xml file is loaded via JSGME. So, in short, those who enjoy tinkering should modify/load simulation.xml files via JSGME for good measure, and also toggle wind settings in the MultiMod, to make sure that you are getting customized wind effects in missions in WOFF UE/PE. By the way, for convenience, below is a pic. that includes the settings I currently use for spring/summer, autumn, and winter winds/turbulence, via JJJ's excellent MultiMod (I use such settings in conjunction with loading the different simulation.xml files via JSGME, as specified in my various posts above, in this thread).

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2

[Linked Image]

Attached Files WindSettingsWOFFUEPE.jpg
Last edited by VonS; 04/28/21 03:04 AM. Reason: Edited post.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
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