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#4564960 - 04/18/21 06:13 AM Re: DCS [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
If Falcon 4 which was released in 1998 failed to make enough of a profit then the decline of the mainstream market for hardcore flight sims started much earlier than most of us thought.


1998 was the high water mark, and death knell, of realistic combat flight sims. A bunch of great sims were released around that time (Falcon 4.0, European Air War, Janes WWII Fighters), splitting the market, and ensuring few if any made enough money to justify gaming companies continuing development in that genre.

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#4565193 - 04/19/21 07:48 PM Re: DCS [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
If all you’re interested in flying is the F-16 then you are already good to go. There’s need to get anything else!


For sure...I get that. Myself...I'd rather have one fully functional fast mover with an engaging and immersive dynamic campaign than a dozen half done ones in a static environment.

It's worth noting...one of the big reasons Falcon's campaign engine took so long to complete was that it had to run on the minimum specs on the box. Imagine that for a second...we have serious advancements in hardware and software today, yet nobody
can make something to rival an engine that was made to run on a Pentium 166 Mhz with 32mb of ram. Crying shame really.


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#4565211 - 04/19/21 09:30 PM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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#4565214 - 04/19/21 10:01 PM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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f16 driver goes too far and runs into 6 SA6 sams....

The dude deserves a few beers.

Hes up to his ears in it...


Hud footage of what these dudes really see.

Dcs cant show me this because their world is scripted...

Btw hands down the viper is an amazing jet...

#4565254 - 04/20/21 07:55 AM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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What amazes me is the amount of effort Falcon 4 BMS fans spend complaining about DCS. If you love Falcon 4, go fly it and have fun - nobody is stopping you, nobody is taking it away from you. I, personally, am happy that you find satisfaction in the game and wish you well.
Personally, I enjoy DCS despite the shortcomings.

#4565263 - 04/20/21 10:34 AM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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+1 FlyingToaster


I will concede though that if you are going to play a single-platform flight sim then the F-16 is a great choice since it is a multi-role fighter. You can pretty much do almost any kind of mission with it.


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#4565266 - 04/20/21 11:17 AM Re: DCS [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
+1 FlyingToaster


I will concede though that if you are going to play a single-platform flight sim then the F-16 is a great choice since it is a multi-role fighter. You can pretty much do almost any kind of mission with it.


I agree with that. It's one reason the F/A-18 is my favourite platform in DCS. It can do pretty much any type of mission, and do them all quite well. I'll grant that the F-16 is better at AA, primarily due to speed.

#4565292 - 04/20/21 06:11 PM Re: DCS [Re: FlyingToaster]  
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Originally Posted by FlyingToaster
What amazes me is the amount of effort Falcon 4 BMS fans spend complaining about DCS. If you love Falcon 4, go fly it and have fun - nobody is stopping you, nobody is taking it away from you. I, personally, am happy that you find satisfaction in the game and wish you well.
Personally, I enjoy DCS despite the shortcomings.


No mystery why this happens. Easy answer is because a lot of Falcon flyers also have decent investments in DCS modules...modules that they are still waiting for the core experience and immersion to be improved. The kinda improvements that everyone has been telling
us to be "patient" for the last 10 years.

It's a flight sim forum...comparisons are going to be made. If you enjoy it...awesome...go fly it and have fun - nobody is stopping you, nobody is taking it away from you. (see what I did there). Why do you care so much that everyone doesn't share your opinion and feel they got their money's worth?

The OP's vid is a decent analogy of ED's approach to flight sim developement...it's gonna spark these kind of comparisons.


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#4565308 - 04/20/21 07:20 PM Re: DCS [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
.Why do you care so much that everyone doesn't share your opinion and feel they got their money's worth?


I can't speak for Flying toaster though I had the same thoughts. I don't give a #%&*$# if someone has a different opinion than me but it does grow wearisome to be reminded time and time and time again the failings of this sim. We fooking know. This is the active thread of this forum, Are you kidding me? lol Not really the place to come and engage in discussion regarding DCS

#4565311 - 04/20/21 07:54 PM Re: DCS [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
Originally Posted by Force10
.Why do you care so much that everyone doesn't share your opinion and feel they got their money's worth?


I can't speak for Flying toaster though I had the same thoughts. I don't give a #%&*$# if someone has a different opinion than me but it does grow wearisome to be reminded time and time and time again the failings of this sim. We fooking know. This is the active thread of this forum, Are you kidding me? lol Not really the place to come and engage in discussion regarding DCS


I guess sometimes folks need to step out of their own bubble...just looked at the threads from the last year on here and there's like 3 that have hard gripes about ED. But when one pops up occasionally you get people that can't handle it.
I realize today's culture is about shielding people from unwanted opinions cause of "feelings"...but let's try to be adults shall we?

"Not really the place to come and engage in discussion regarding DCS"? You mean not the place to discuss ONLY positive things and have the 15% of the threads that are negative censored for those that have a delicate emotional threshold.

Of course you're tired of hearing it...we've been immersed in this for longer than I care to remember. But here's a newsflash: There could be new players looking for information on the sim before they spend possibly hundreds of dollars and ALL opinions should be able to be weighed...not just opinions from heavily censored forums. Maybe investing in a sim that's always going to be in a constant state of unfinished-ness isn't what they're after...or maybe it is. Let them read everything and make an informed decision for themselves.

Last edited by Force10; 04/20/21 08:01 PM.

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#4565314 - 04/20/21 08:22 PM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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Jeez, a news flash, thanks Force, condescending but expected.

Force quit dumbing down the conversation .Where did I mention 'positive conversation' This is not part of my narrative so please do not try to make it so. This is rigid thinking on your part

Believe it or not there are DCS forums that do not require moderation and there is a nice combination of positive feedback as well as critical thinking. The posts here read more like victim statements than anything to do with critical thinking

I have lost count of how many times that readers have been told in this forum that anybody who has supported this sim is responsible for it's current (bad)state. Not a nice message for newcomers. Never mind with the shaming statements just give the facts please smile










#4565317 - 04/20/21 08:43 PM Re: DCS [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
Where did I mention 'positive conversation' This is not part of my narrative so please do not try to make it so.


So you're saying I mis-understood this statement?
Originally Posted by bisher
Not really the place to come and engage in discussion regarding DCS
If you were talking about positive and negative discussion...the rest of your post doesn't reflect this. Neither does your posting history really in the DCS section.

Seems you only come in occasionally to defend ED in a negative thread...while completely ignoring the positive or "engaging" discussions in the thread above or below that you allegedly want to take part in. Seems you don't want to be part of the solution.

But here's the thing...you're entitled to your opinion here. What is bothersome is YOU telling people they shouldn't post their opinion because YOU'RE tired of hearing it. That's not how it works.

Originally Posted by bisher
The posts here read more like victim statements than anything to do with critical thinking


LOL...yeah...all the "critical" thinking at the ED forums has really made a difference on ED's half-baked half-finished approach to flight sim development...right?


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#4565319 - 04/20/21 08:57 PM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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I have some DCS modules, I pick and choose the odd one I fancy in a sale, and have to say I fire them up from time to time and quite enjoy the experience... they are after all flight sim 'games' and like all games, they have good and bad points.
DCS, IL2, RoF, WoFF, FC, WoTR and others that I play, I can honestly say are not perfect, but they all fulfill some great gaming time when I do play them. No complaints here...

#4565320 - 04/20/21 09:12 PM Re: DCS [Re: Force10]  
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I prefer to not come to this forum at all but I can't help myself like a bad car accident I can't resist! And I definitely prefer to post nothing in this forum and I knew I'd regret getting involved in this conversation.

You did a search of my posts. Ew, I feel violated. But a little empowered


You seem to be disconnected from the conversation Force. I have never been to an ED forum so I would not know if there is even critical thinking going on there. I made no correlation between a simmers ability to think critically about this sim and impact on development. Right? lol




#4565322 - 04/20/21 09:31 PM Re: DCS [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
I made no correlation between a simmers ability to think critically about this sim and impact on development. Right? lol



That was kind of my point...no amount of niceities and critical thinking/posting about ED will bring about change...not as long as they continue to profit from their lack of competition and lackluster approach towards innovating the combat aspect of the sim.

But that's just my opinion and not really what we're talking about.

If you think I'm enjoying this conversation with you...you're wrong. I seldom post in here myself since I'm not really an active DCS flyer and am still waiting patiently for my investment to pay off...10 years and counting! (any day now their gonna turn it around...I'm sure of it!)

The only thing that will bring me out of my cave is someone telling another they shouldn't share their opinion cause they're tired of hearing it/don't agree with it etc. If you could refrain from taking that position...we won't end up here. What do ya say bish?


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#4565326 - 04/20/21 10:10 PM Re: DCS [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
The only thing that will bring me out of my cave is someone telling another they shouldn't share their opinion cause they're tired of hearing it/don't agree with it etc. If you could refrain from taking that position...we won't end up here. What do ya say bish?


Yes and here we are, engaging in a conversation neither of us want to be having

In regards to opinions, I prefer them to be sim focused not poster focused. And that is my opinion on opinions. Hence I did not suggest to Phoenix to take his opinion else where

I need a beer












#4565328 - 04/20/21 10:28 PM Re: DCS [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
Originally Posted by Force10
The only thing that will bring me out of my cave is someone telling another they shouldn't share their opinion cause they're tired of hearing it/don't agree with it etc. If you could refrain from taking that position...we won't end up here. What do ya say bish?


Yes and here we are, engaging in a conversation neither of us want to be having

In regards to opinions, I prefer them to be sim focused not poster focused. And that is my opinion on opinions. Hence I did not suggest to Phoenix to take his opinion else where

I need a beer


Agree...you didn't come right out and say that...maybe just inferred. But who knows...I might have read more into it than there was...I'm rusty at throwing myself into these type of conversations.

Cheers cheers


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#4565329 - 04/20/21 10:43 PM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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Yes it has been interesting despite being out of my element

Cheers Force smile

#4565388 - 04/21/21 10:22 AM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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Price on steam right now :
DCS: F-16C Viper
73,99€

A review from a simmer that got burned,,,

My first DCS title was A-10C back in 2013. I don't quite have the veterancy of some other module owners but I've seen more than my share of Eagle Dynamics' behavior to know to tell people to be extremely weary. the TF-51 and Su-25T that come with DCS: World for free are a decent taste of what to expects but do little to show players what the average play (that is to say, study sim jets) is like. If you enjoy either of these I do actually suggest considering a paid module, but be aware that "early access" is a dirty word among the DCS playerbase.
Anything carrying the EA curse can be expected to be lackluster at best and just flatly broken at worst. ED does very little to assuage player complaints, as well; furthermore while it may be tempting to play on open beta to have access to newly-launching aircraft or participate in specific servers I highly suggest against it as it it painfully apparent that ED's internal testing is simply nonexistent. Things are pushed to beta with no testing beyond "it works sometimes".
Another major issue is performance. while some high-end desktop and workstation machines may hold a constant 60 maxed out in DCS the vast majority of configurations will require some degree of settings tweeking and mid-low or worse machines might as well consider 45 a high point. In all cases expecting a constant framerate in multiplayer is a wish and a prayer. These are not relatively new problems, either; DCS has had significant performance problems since the release of the Edge engine and has only gotten worse over time. Maybe with the release of 2.7 in several days this might change, but as of this writing don't expect a smooth time if you're running any flavor of older hardware.
In short: the game is beautiful and arguably the best combat sim out, but highly flawed. Be aware that the developers, both of first and third party modules, will lie, cheat, and scam, and that you should watch reviews of modules you're interested in before progressing past the free aircraft.

Nuff said.

#4565404 - 04/21/21 12:52 PM Re: DCS [Re: mdwa]  
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I doubt it is 'nuff said smile

Anyone remember what Falcon 4 was like on release, and for a long time after? Not the perfectly performant article you might imagine given its praise. That's not any kind of criticism btw, I always enjoyed it fully whatever its level of release & completion, but it was a slideshow with many missing pieces for the longest time. And in those days you had to hunt down patches.

And I'm not accepting the "lie cheat and scam" accusation, it's obviously and blatantly rageblamequit and makes me disregard the entire opinion piece. Especially as my own experience is completely different. Complaining that it doesn't run well on ultra on a potato is disingenuous also.

But, people like to leer and sneer, what are you going to do. :/


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
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