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#4565159 - 04/19/21 03:38 PM Air turbulence maybe too much?  
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orbyxP Offline
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Feature: Implemented dynamic air turbulence which makes each craft look more real as the pilots jostle to keep formation individually

After watching a few videos of custom WW1 aircraft built and flown by folks, it seems this is slightly overdone in BH&HII. I didn't notice any WW1 aircraft bounce around in the wind like it is in the game. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it wouldn't seem the wind would cause these planes to bounce around while flying straight and level. Maybe flying through a thunderstorm would cause this exaggerated effect.

I would guess maybe the wind would affect these planes depending on altitude as well as combat maneuvers?

Last edited by orbyxP; 04/19/21 03:56 PM.
#4565163 - 04/19/21 04:40 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
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@Orbyx, while JJJ's MultiMod, as far as I know, is not yet compatible with BHAH.II - that mod. allows for changes in wind/turbulence settings - there is another solution but it takes some time and intuitive work, testing, etc.

See this link:

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4561942/re-wish-list-for-woff#Post4561942

Changing the bump settings in simulation.xml, and then loading the file via JSGME does the trick (can confirm that it works in my PE 5.03 and FrankenWOFF 4.18 installs). It overrides the MultiMod settings that way, and of course also works even if you are not using the MultiMod.

Try also setting the "wind smooth" period to something like 10 or 12 seconds, etc., for more variety - it's worth a test. I am using such tweaked settings in FrankenWOFF and am very pleased with the results - I even have nice side forces working against the fuselage, and slightly ruining bullet trajectories, in windy conditions - great fun when in a dogfight. Avoid going over a value of 300 with the localWindScaleHorz_pct entry or it may negate/cancel out the side-wind effects.

Same rule applies to the localWindScaleVert_pct entry. For the other entries, with the exception of "windsmoothperiod," feel free to expand them to about 350 or so - recommended is to try increments of +/- 20 to 50, or so, for the entries, until happy with the results. For windsmooth, I think anything over 20 secs. is probably too much (can be brought down to as little as 1 or 2 secs. if you want constant vibration, buffeting, and instability, as in RoF).

As always, make a backup of the stock simulation.xml file before changing things.

Happy flying,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 04/28/21 03:03 AM. Reason: Edited post.

// See WOFF on a Mac post for installation instructions regarding WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2 on Macs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4565164 - 04/19/21 04:55 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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I am far from an expert on this field, but last flights in formation April1917 , with AP on were bumpy to say the least, to the point that collisions were always a possibility in formation flying. I was amazed how IA managed to avoid them and mantain formation. The moment I disengaged AP I was able to maintain a much more stable flight path while my mates still struggled to fly level for a single second.

#4565165 - 04/19/21 04:56 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Creaghorn Offline
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Before tweaking things to death, you need to consider that what you see in airshows or replicas etc. is mostly under best flying weather. I wouldn't take out my selfmade vintage aircraft out on shaky weather. Then during the war it was something completely different because there is a war going on and tasks to fullfil.

Besides, did you try flying in formation good weather in BHAH2? You will notice that there is much less buffeting etc.

I have flown gliderplanes many times. Also with all kind of aerobatics etc. While glider aircraft look so gentle and calm when watching from the ground, you would be surprised how much it is shaking and buffeting and jumping around in real. Actually it's not overdone but could even be more than represented. So much that sometimes when landing into the wind you might get thrown backwards etc.

#4565167 - 04/19/21 05:10 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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All good points to consider before modding a solution Creaghorn! yep


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#4565169 - 04/19/21 05:29 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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busdriver Offline
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Originally Posted by orbyxP
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it wouldn't seem the wind would cause these planes to bounce around while flying straight and level. Maybe flying through a thunderstorm would cause this exaggerated effect.


I think this new feature is SUPERB, speaking as a guy that spent a decade IRL flying formation. Formation flying is dynamic even while flying in totally smooth calm air, which it rarely is. Air is a fluid, think of it like heating a kettle of water. Early in the morning, the air is calm (like a cold kettle) as the day progresses the sun warms the air, and reflected heat from the ground adds more heat to the air. This uneven heating causes updrafts and downdrafts. Glider pilots know this and typically get their best soaring in the afternoon. All this just to back up my opinion that this feature was a great addition.

I posted on another forum
Quote
A nice visual improvement is seeing airplanes in formation bob up and down and the wings rock gently. That visual makes me smile. Like @Trooper117 and @Adger mention the sounds are better, specifically things like the creaking of airframe and sputtering of engines.



Last edited by busdriver; 04/19/21 05:30 PM.
#4565183 - 04/19/21 07:04 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Becker01 Offline
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"Creaghorn:
While glider aircraft look so gentle and calm when watching from the ground, you would be surprised how much it is shaking and buffeting and jumping around in real."


Yes! And that you can also find out with small / sporting aircraft with little weight. It is difficult to see from the ground the shaking and buffeting the pilot has to work with.

Greetings

#4565184 - 04/19/21 07:10 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Polovski Online content
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As the guys say we think it's fairly realistic and it will vary depending on weather of course. If you personally don't like it you can turn it off for the player craft only in workshop for example. We'd recommend you don't but the option is there. No need to start hacking the sim at this stage but each to their own.

Attached Files Desktop Screenshot 2021.04.19 - 20.07.14.65s.png

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4565196 - 04/19/21 08:01 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Perfect! thank you all for your replies and sharing your experiences.

#4565216 - 04/19/21 11:03 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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While late to this party I will also agree that BHaH II has it right, based on my own ultralight flying experiences. As others here have noted, it may look smooth up there from the ground but it most certainly is not, even on a relatively calm day.

.


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#4565218 - 04/19/21 11:12 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Personally..i fricken love it, it's what i've been waiting for in WOFF for years. Triple J did a stellar job in his mod, OBD took it up another level.


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#4565224 - 04/19/21 11:51 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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catch Offline
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

While late to this party I will also agree that BHaH II has it right, based on my own ultralight flying experiences. As others here have noted, it may look smooth up there from the ground but it most certainly is not, even on a relatively calm day.

.


I concur Lou having done so when I was a fit and handsome young buck with long flowing locks. Fun like nothing else. And then I woke up one day after the passage of time and ... well ...

Ahem .... I find nothing wrong with the air turbulence. Modders! Stand down. Relax. Make a cuppa tea.

#4565235 - 04/20/21 01:54 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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77_Scout Offline
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I agree with other ... the turbulence is excellent as modelled and no need to change a thing.

#4565240 - 04/20/21 03:40 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Having flown the friendly skies in a 172 with my brother when he was stationed at Baden-Söllingen, I can tell you that said skies can be lumpy, even on a good day
Cheers,
shredward


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#4565358 - 04/21/21 02:32 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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It's perfect. I absolutely love how the air feels so alive.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

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#4565406 - 04/21/21 01:00 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Originally Posted by Ace_Pilto
It's perfect. I absolutely love how the air feels so alive.


I'm with you, Ace, There used to be complaints about a cardboard flight model. That feeling is completely gone now. I think it's brilliant just the way it is.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4565411 - 04/21/21 01:19 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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#4565744 - 04/23/21 08:47 PM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Becker01 Offline
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By the way ...
yesterday on the highway I have had the idea, that you can turn off the "Wind Effects Player" during deep winter-time to simulate no thermic turbulence (and in winter you have a little wind normally).
And then -like a second step- I have thought about the turbulence depending on the seasons.
Only for example (in a range off No, Less, Normal, More, High):
spring > normal/more thermic turbulence
summer > high thermic turbulence
autumn > less thermic turbulence
winter > no thermic turbulence

I like the new wind/turbulence-factor in BH&H II very much, because it is much more realistic. And to be honest I haven't had time enough to test the wind/thermic turbulence during different weather and different seasons thoroughly so far. It is only an idea to make more differences depending on the seasons (and I don't know, whether it is possible with the system to make such differences between wind / thermic turbulences or between the seasons in relation to thermic turbulence).

Greetings!

Last edited by Becker01; 04/23/21 08:49 PM.
#4566011 - 04/26/21 12:24 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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VonS Online grunt
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
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Hello fellow WOFFers,

As per Becker's interesting advice, have now finished with my little tests with different bump values in the simulation.xml file, in FrankenWOFF 4.18 - for those who are running UE/PE WOFF, make three copies of the simulation.xml file, set up to be loadable via JSGME, etc. - and implement the following three changes, per weather type:

for spring/summer

<Bumps
windSmoothPeriod_secs="3"
localWindScaleVert_pct="190"
localWindScaleHorz_pct="280"
localWindFieldPerAircraft="y"
clearTurbulenceScale_pct="260"
cloudTurbulenceScale_pct="350"
groundBumpsVerticalScale_pct="330"
groundBumpsPitchScale_pct="170"
groundBumpsRollScale_pct="380"
/>

for autumn

<Bumps
windSmoothPeriod_secs="8"
localWindScaleVert_pct="170"
localWindScaleHorz_pct="250"
localWindFieldPerAircraft="y"
clearTurbulenceScale_pct="210"
cloudTurbulenceScale_pct="330"
groundBumpsVerticalScale_pct="290"
groundBumpsPitchScale_pct="140"
groundBumpsRollScale_pct="360"
/>

for winter

<Bumps
windSmoothPeriod_secs="12"
localWindScaleVert_pct="120"
localWindScaleHorz_pct="210"
localWindFieldPerAircraft="y"
clearTurbulenceScale_pct="150"
cloudTurbulenceScale_pct="240"
groundBumpsVerticalScale_pct="230"
groundBumpsPitchScale_pct="90"
groundBumpsRollScale_pct="280"
/>

All three settings were tested with BB's few small clouds variant, and also BB's large dark majestic clouds variant. Winds/turbulence vary by weather/cloud type, further changed by JJJ's MissionEd if you use it - but the three settings above seem to give good variety, more specifically, different levels of amplification. Also take note of subtle side-winds pushing left/right against the fuselage with the modified settings above, more so in spring/summer, less so in the winter. Bullet trajectories are also slightly affected by the wind, especially in spring/summer. The settings will probably work okay in BHAH.II as well, but make a copy of the stock simulation.xml file in BHAH.II before attempting the tweaks above, to load via JSGME - and also be aware that BHAH.II turbulence/winds are already amplified in stock form.

Some bonus info. for those running specifically UE/PE WOFF:

for slightly different gun-jam values and varied frustration, try:

gunsJam="y"
unjamProbability_frac="0.35"
unjamMinInterval_secs="5"

for individual fighter_v_fighter settings, to have them still fighting you even if lightly/moderately damaged, before turning home, try:

fightThreshold="-2"
withdrawThreshold="-3"

for slightly more varied AI maneuvers/responses, with novices sometimes being more clumsy, try:

<Maneuvers
acePlusEffort="1"
aceEffort="0.95"
veteranEffort="0.9"
noviceEffort="0.8">

And that will be it for my tweaks suggestions for a while - have to finish up with some things in FE2, and also to spend more time flying and less time tweaking.

EDIT: Several entries in the bumps section of the simulation.xml file are changed after a flight in WOFF, even after the settings specified above are loaded via JSGME - however, the windsmoothperiod setting remains as loaded via JSGME, as do threshold values for fighter_v_fighter AI - so best is to use such side-loading of relevant values anyway, via JSGME, in conjunction with the wind/turbulence settings in JJJ's MultiMod (and which change some of the bumps values) - for the full effect to be present in missions in WOFF.

Cheers all and enjoy the turbulence,
Von S smile2

-----
Dead-sticking it in FrankenWOFF 4.18 through some subtle winter turbulence; medium-winter textures are a mix of full and medium, stock PE winter textures, for variety

[Linked Image]

Attached Files midwinterfrankenwoff.jpg
Last edited by VonS; 04/27/21 11:54 PM. Reason: Embedded pic. for representational purposes.

// See WOFF on a Mac post for installation instructions regarding WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2 on Macs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4566013 - 04/26/21 12:38 AM Re: Air turbulence maybe too much? [Re: orbyxP]  
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Very nice detective work, von S! The simulation file contains a lot of interesting goodies, but as he says, always make a backup first before editing!

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