With regard to the OP, I played with many D&D groups over the years and to be fair, some were not very much interested in the role-playing aspects of the game anyway but instead were far more interested in just exploring some ancient tomb, wacking undead along the way and finding interesting loot. Particularly with the advent of D&D fourth edition for them it was more of a "tactical fighting" game than a roleplaying game.
I played Cyperpunk 2020 back in high school but that was it for pen-and-paper RPGs, too much hassle compared to CRPGs.
As far as actually role playing a character, I don't do it aside from basing in-game decisions on what I think a real life personality that I've known like a boss or ex GF would do, it makes for amusing situations.
Other than that I'm mainly good with exploration, combat and politics.
I've never seen a true RPG on the PC. Combat games that followed an RPG's ruleset, sure. Maybe Deus Ex came closest, but if you truly want to roleplay a character, do it with pen, paper, and friends. Of course it's also important to realize that not every RPG system befits just any type of story to be told. There are huge differences in the way your character develops along the way (and what's actually possible) if you compare D&D, Call of Cthulhu, or Warhammer (the latter two of which are both based on BRP, but substantially different in mechanisms still). I've never been a stickler for extensive rules (a game session of Rolemaster would probably be my ultimate horror where there's probably even a table for chewing gum), so BRP with its percentage rolls are just my thing. (Gumshoe is another nice system for investigative scenarios.) While I still think that story trumps rulebook, I have come to accept that rules have their place and can be of quite some importance. The Call of Cthulhu ruleset wouldn't work for a heroic fantasy type of game session, just like the D&D rules just don't work even with extensive modification if applied to confronting Cosmic Horror and its cultists.
Computer games simply lack the freedom for the player to go and explore a world and still have depth of interaction with NPCs and own character development. I mean, I like killing time with open world games like Fallout 3 and later, but by and large most missions can be summarized as "go to X, kill what's there, loot the place, and get item Y to NPC Z (or keep it for yourself, kill Z, and loot him too)". Even when like in Mass Effect you are given different options in dialog, your options to develop your character are much more limited than in the fluid environment of collaborative storytelling.
Okay, you just compared/described CRPGs vs. Tabletop RPGs and points are valid. I wonder if there's a question in this thread at all?
CRPGs need to have "rails" as the whole adventure needs to be "programmed in." The art there is disguising the rails as best possible. I've not played much CRPGs but my favorites are Fallout 1 and 2, wherein there are so many possible "rails" that it doesn't feel like the player is being railroaded, if that makes any sense at all!
I've played a few tabletop RPGs, from 3.5 to Pathfinder to 4E, a bit of GURPS, and currently, Star Wars RPG by Fantasy Flight games. This last one has quite a unique dice system that promotes a bit more roleplaying and storytelling compared to the standard D&D "You need 15 to hit," "I roll a 14," "You miss."
That's not the intent however. What you're describing was how people you played with and/or watched chose to play. Unfortunately not many players- or DMs for that matter- took the small leap to using a bit of imagination and instead of making it a book-keeping exercise. The DM could roll the dice himself, for everyone (or pretend to roll!) behind the DM screen or equivalent, and say things like, "Your sword slices off a lock of Nelburt's hair, doing no harm", or "Sir Alphard leaps back at the last second and your blow misses".
Instead it was "Louie, roll to-hit for your Paladin"." "I got a 16!". "You miss". "What?? #@&%!".
Those game sessions got old and boring very quickly.
When I DM'd, the players never saw what die I was even rolling. Sometimes they'd hit or miss on a d20. Their opponents would be using a d4 and I'd multiply by 5, if the player was being stump-dumb, like fighting 10 opponents at once. So many critical hits! On the other hand, if the player had done something clever to give himself an advantage, they'd be getting the benefit of a d10 multiplied by two sometimes. They never knew because they never touched the dice. DMs needed a healthy dose of subversive leanings.
What kind of car is that? What does it matter? When I drive it, I'm Steve McQueen
I'd hardly consider the console tainted semi-open world games with lite role playing elements of recent years as true RPGs though, that's like comparing the Twisted Metal games with Steel Beasts since they both involve vehicle combat.
Uggh. D&D sucked. While it had it's own problems Runequest was a much less problematic ruleset, which delivered better gameplay with no additional complexity.
Modern RPGs can be very engaging - I'd recommend Kingdom Come Deliverance, once the current performance and stability issues are resolved in Beta.
It really depends on what you want to get out of it. Runequest is a great system, don't get me wrong (BRP is, after all, a direct offspring), but it works best for player who like to plan their action in great detail simply because combat is so deadly - for both your own character and the opponents. If you have a group of people who just want to storm in and create a lot of mayhem in chaotic situations, D&D is a better choice (not that the system saves you from just any stupidity).
The kind of RPG I meant was going from sitting around a table playing D&D in a group to text adventures on pc. When PC games were on 5.25" floppies in the 80's. All of a sudden, you could play this type of game on your own. Until then, the only option were those "Choose your own adventure" books that came with dice and had you flipping around the book.
Do you actually remember the beginning of E.T?
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
That's not the intent however. What you're describing was how people you played with and/or watched chose to play. Unfortunately not many players- or DMs for that matter- took the small leap to using a bit of imagination and instead of making it a book-keeping exercise. The DM could roll the dice himself, for everyone (or pretend to roll!) behind the DM screen or equivalent, and say things like, "Your sword slices off a lock of Nelburt's hair, doing no harm", or "Sir Alphard leaps back at the last second and your blow misses".
Instead it was "Louie, roll to-hit for your Paladin"." "I got a 16!". "You miss". "What?? #@&%!".
Those game sessions got old and boring very quickly.
When I DM'd, the players never saw what die I was even rolling. Sometimes they'd hit or miss on a d20. Their opponents would be using a d4 and I'd multiply by 5, if the player was being stump-dumb, like fighting 10 opponents at once. So many critical hits! On the other hand, if the player had done something clever to give himself an advantage, they'd be getting the benefit of a d10 multiplied by two sometimes. They never knew because they never touched the dice. DMs needed a healthy dose of subversive leanings.
Oh, trust me, I see your point... but after the 8th or 9th swing of the fighter and this being your 25th game session together, well... plus, I don't think I like the GM rolling my dice for me. The SW RPG mechanic allows for better storytelling as each dice isn't just a success or failure, it could be a success but with a critical downside... or a failure but with some advantages.
Also, while some people are ROLE-players, others are ROLL-players.
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,474PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,474
Miami, FL USA
Wow. Nice necro-threadding Blastman and yes, I remember getting that achievement in W 3.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet. I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.
"There's a sucker born every minute." Phineas Taylor Barnum
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 6,406Uther
Aviation Coordinator
Uther
Aviation Coordinator
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,406
Upstate NY
Originally Posted by 462cid
In a good session of classic pen and paper role playing such as D&D, AD&D, Top Secret, Traveler, etc, you didn't even need dice. The game master had a feel for how successful or ineffective the players' actions would be, and would just make decisions.
The earlier medieval combat game you mention was 'Chainmail"
The advantage of the computer game was no bored players starting the classic (but often fun) inter-party rumble, at the expense of a loss of immersion.
Try to find PC games like 'Pool of Radiance'. It was made by SSI.
Don't forget Twilight 2000, World of Greyhawk,Star Frontiers!
