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#4563425 - 04/09/21 05:30 PM Pricing policy...  
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Dornil Offline
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I will probably regret this, but I cannot help but ask: is everyone OK with this?
I mean, I personally was well prepared to pay 25-30$ for another "expansion pack" as I did for UE and PE, but 60$ for a game that I essentially already have, it is just a bit over the top.
Some might say that the price of the heavily truncated Flying Circus was more or less the same, but 1C did provide a discount for RoF owners back then.
There sure is a number of nice new features there, but no - not at a price of a full game, which is twice as high as that of WotR. Maybe someday... Although OBD Software is not known for frequent discounts:(

#4563432 - 04/09/21 05:46 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Personally? I’m fine with it and I’ve owned everything OBD have ever done. Imo it’s not an expansion pack it’s like a brand new sim.

It’s got wayyyy more content than WOTR, EA release Fifa, Madden ect every single year, charge a fortune for it with very little changes (I know my lad has it). In fact in a World Cup year they release 2 versions of Fifa. Il put it like this..The new Spitfire (1 plane only that’s all you get) for MSFS 2020 is around $26 that’s right $26 for a single plane..BHaH II has New FMs,DM..scenery, skins 80 flyables?? Plus so much more.imo it’s worth $60 and then some.

Only you Dornil know what it’s personally worth, there’s nothing wrong with UE/PE. You could fly that version for many years..For me though BHAH II is worth every penny, I’d never go back to PE and that was also an incredible sim but this version?? It’s Absolutely outstanding mate.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563442 - 04/09/21 06:11 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Originally Posted by Dornil
I will probably regret this, but I cannot help but ask: is everyone OK with this?
I mean, I personally was well prepared to pay 25-30$ for another "expansion pack" as I did for UE and PE, but 60$ for a game that I essentially already have, it is just a bit over the top.
Some might say that the price of the heavily truncated Flying Circus was more or less the same, but 1C did provide a discount for RoF owners back then.
There sure is a number of nice new features there, but no - not at a price of a full game, which is twice as high as that of WotR. Maybe someday... Although OBD Software is not known for frequent discounts:(


Yes, 1C did provide a discount. Down from $80 to $70, if I remember correctly when I got it. $70 for fewer planes (10) and less maps (1) than owners had in the previous version, RoF.

By contrast, OBD is charging $60 - (thats $10 less even with the discount for those keeping score) than what 1C charged and it has ALL the Features, planes and maps that the previous iteration had plus 80 or so more new things added or improved. So by my math, I paid $70 to get fewer planes and maps for FC and $60 to get all the same planes (but upgraded) plus tons of other new Features in BHaH II.

TL;DNR
Without a discount, OBD is charging $10 less and giving way more Features and Improvements without losing ANY content or planes. 1C charged more and drastically reduced the amount of actual content in their newest version.

Someone check my math on that, please?

Last edited by Hellshade; 04/09/21 06:30 PM.

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#4563449 - 04/09/21 06:35 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Originally Posted by Dornil
I will probably regret this


No one is going to have a go at you for voicing your opinion as long as it's done honestly and in good faith, rather than by asking rhetorical questions in an effort to be sarcastic as some have done.

If you look at Rise of Flight in it's prime, the game cost around £25 and then additional aircraft cost around £4 to £5 each and another £2 for each, if you wanted the add-ons. That's well over £100 if you only bought even half of the aircraft.

WOFF BHAH II has 80 flyable aircraft and you get them all with the one purchase. Add in the unequalled immersion into being a pilot in WW1 and to be honest I think £50 odd is not bad at all.

OBD have essentially built a whole new game around the WOFF framework. The improved aircraft, landscaping, FM and DM and all the other improvements have taken WOFF to a whole new level.

OBD have already confirmed more aircraft and other stuff will come once they've worked on WOTR and those aircraft and add ons will only be available to work on BHAH II I would imagine.

So my purchase of BHAH II is an investment in the future of WOFF as much as the massive improvements in the new version.

The choice is always with the punter but for me, it was a no brainer.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4563454 - 04/09/21 07:00 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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It is ok if you are working and have a good income, myself I am 77 and on state pension I have supported WOFF from the beginning but now this is beyond me so I will just stick to what I have.

I did put up a post asking the cost in the UK and it turned out it is £52.00 at the end of the day my wife and I need the heating more than I need BHAH 11.

Thank you Dornil for asking the question, now I am going to put the cat amongst the pigeons after all is not BHAH 11 just a revamped basic 20th century flight sim ok a very good one.

#4563455 - 04/09/21 07:02 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Yes I am. I think Albert covered the salient points so I won't embellish.

I'll only add this:

WOFF/BHaH2 is 1 of 1. It's a Unicorn. There's no other product on Earth that does what it does.

Quality costs money, and for my money BHaH2 is well worth it, and would be so at an even higher price.

#4563456 - 04/09/21 07:05 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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The OP already has a great game... He has WoFF PE, as we all do I suspect. He can still have years of enjoyment with it if he doesn't like the idea of spending more money.
Me, I trust OBD when they say it's essentially a new game, that, and seeing all the screenshots and videos of what was on offer.
I bought into BH&H2 and I haven't been disappointed... it has so many improvements I would have kicked myself if I didn't buy it... I'm one happy customer biggrin

#4563457 - 04/09/21 07:09 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Everyone is absolutely right to choose to buy or not by when its right for them. If something is not worth it to them, it's their money and only they have the right to decide that. Fully agreed.

I simply challenge the idea that when OBD charged less money and delivered more content, that was the less fair way to do it and when 1C charged more money and delivered less content, that was the better or fairer deal.

Last edited by Hellshade; 04/09/21 07:11 PM.

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#4563464 - 04/09/21 07:38 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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I'll throw my hat in the Ring,too.

I perfectly understand the concerns you, Dornil have.

One month ago, I bought WOFF UE, with a DVD and PE. Just to realize a few days later, that BH&H2 is about to released. OK, I could have wait for BH&H2. my fault.

I have had other OBD products before, and they were all worth the money. I happily support OBD with my purchases because developers with this attitude to quality are very rare.

For the math of ROF, I spend way more from 2009 on this, as 60€, all the Planes, maps and addons, you know it by yourself. WOFF PE is a great Sim, you dont need BH&H2.

All the development done for the last Iteration has its price. It was Just to much for a simple addon. Look at the features list. The AI ist nearly brilliant, compared to ROF, its genius! That is just one example.
Look at it and compare it to ROF, or IL2 FC.

And the best at least! This community! It is priceless, warm, mature and welcoming. You can still Join the DID campaign with WOFF PE or any other Iteration and no one would judge you about it. Or all the other campaigns. Its perfectly fine to wait for a sale. How and when do you buy BH&H2 is Up to you, but my recommondation is, NOW!

Hope to See you in the skies and your Posts and pics here!

Last edited by LtCasey; 04/09/21 07:43 PM.

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#4563466 - 04/09/21 07:41 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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If you have the UE/PE version of WOFF then you have an excellent sim that will provide endless hours of enjoyment. Getting BHaH2 is for me, honestly, a 'luxury' purchase. I could happily stick with the older version ... two weeks ago UE/PE was a truly fantastic flight sim and that doesn't change just because something new comes out. Have fun, then get the newer version later when it goes on sale or you want to treat yourself. All good!

#4563467 - 04/09/21 07:42 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: olddog]  
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Originally Posted by olddog
It is ok if you are working and have a good income, myself I am 77 and on state pension I have supported WOFF from the beginning but now this is beyond me so I will just stick to what I have.

I did put up a post asking the cost in the UK and it turned out it is £52.00 at the end of the day my wife and I need the heating more than I need BHAH 11.

Thank you Dornil for asking the question, now I am going to put the cat amongst the pigeons after all is not BHAH 11 just a revamped basic 20th century flight sim ok a very good one.



Are you flying PE at the moment Olddog? Is so you’ve still got an incredible sim. Could you put a little aside each week until your ready to purchase? ( I’m certainly not here to tell you what to spend your pension on). Whatever you choose to do I sincerely hope you have fun flying.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563506 - 04/10/21 12:42 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Originally Posted by Dornil
I will probably regret this, but I cannot help but ask: is everyone OK with this?
I mean, I personally was well prepared to pay 25-30$ for another "expansion pack" as I did for UE and PE, but 60$ for a game that I essentially already have, it is just a bit over the top.
Some might say that the price of the heavily truncated Flying Circus was more or less the same, but 1C did provide a discount for RoF owners back then.
There sure is a number of nice new features there, but no - not at a price of a full game, which is twice as high as that of WotR. Maybe someday... Although OBD Software is not known for frequent discounts:(


More than happy, worth every penny.

#4563534 - 04/10/21 09:46 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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just wait.....

let others find the bugs. wait for the patch's. Wait for any mods.

And then one day it will be on sale anyway. Thats what I'm going to do (but then I'm not flying at the mo)


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4563563 - 04/10/21 02:05 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Everyone has a comfort level and a budget regarding buying things. No one is forcing anyone to change from what they have.

WOFF BH&H II has an extensive range of NEW features and improvements - only a fraction of which are really covered in the features list if we look into the detail of these new additions.

It took 18 months round the clock work we think it's a decent price for what is in there compared to many other sims out there. We cannot even list the massive amount of features in WOFF.

We believe the all round experience now is superb in BH&H II- and is above many other sims (even "AAA" titles) in scope, detail, immersion and more.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4563565 - 04/10/21 02:18 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Well having just flown a few missions, I can say it is well worth the money. The new ground textures are worth it alone, and then add in all the upgraded eye-candy, like the improved cockpits and other things I have not had a chance to notice yet it is all a plus. Of course the engine vibration/rocker animation, improved charging handle animation, muzzle flares when flying at dusk or dawn (just saw this the first time in a quick combat), rain on the goggles, increased aircraft activity in furballs (which is absolutely insane). The AI seem to be more aggressive (or it may be there are so many more of them), make it all worth more than the price.

Beard

Last edited by Burning_Beard; 04/10/21 02:20 PM.

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#4563594 - 04/10/21 03:55 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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in my opinion (from my point of view) it's worth more than $60.
This type of sim and the dedication that the very small dev team have toward their project is hard to find. On top of that, its a great product!

I enjoy ROF and the new IL 'flying circus'. But this sim has aspects/features that those games don't even scratch the surface of.

Quite simply. BH&H II has gameplay in a sim that I can't find anywhere else.
If any part of my $60 helps keep a project like this alive, then it's definitely worth way more than that to me. smile

#4563597 - 04/10/21 04:20 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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You all seem to be part of the business. The changes incorporated by BH & HII do not justify paying $ 60.
Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers. They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft - the reality is that ROF has more models. WOFF boasts content, and does not have a dauphin, a Pfalz XII etc. ??.
It is not fair to compare it with other video games, we are talking about flight simulators. DCS, Cliff of Dover, Il2 BOS, incorporate regular updates of the game, improvements in all aspects of various gbs, and do not ask for more money to download them. Money is requested to incorporate a new scenario. Aircraft package and missions and campaigns for that new scenario. OBD asks for a lot of money for small modifications. They are within their rights, but it seems to me a way to deceive customers. I don't care what attacks I get from you. I know that I am right.
Greetings.

#4563599 - 04/10/21 04:43 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Asam this isn’t the 1st time you’ve posted in different threads regarding cost. I understand that English isn’t your native language but..Do you think that those of us that have purchased are stupid enough not to know what we are paying for? Yes it is ok to compare to other video games because..that’s what it is a video game.

You mention DCS haha you mean the DCS that charges £64.99 for one plane or £40 for a single map. Or FC that has 10 flyables.., So if you want to compare then....

Deceive customers?? Absolute nonsense..How have we been deceived? Please tell me? The devs haven’t said oh..your getting this extra map and these extra planes and then pulled them at release have they? No ones been deceived in any way whatsoever. "You don’t care what attacks” you get..okay fair enough. I’m not going to do that but don’t go moaning if that’s what you get. “I know that I’m right” ..No your not, not in my opinion I don’t think anything you wrote is right but like I said that’s my opinion and you have yours.

You fly PE? Great carry on flying it’s a great sim. But don’t come on here telling me I’m “part of the business” I earn and choose to spend my money on what I like when I like..

Regards



They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563600 - 04/10/21 04:44 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Asam, in all honesty, looking at your posts in here, it seems that you just saw some screenshots and asked "are the goggle effects worth 60 bucks?" Have you even tried it? Your opinion seems to be extremely superficial, but it is your opinion after all, so who am I to judge it?

Last edited by trustworthykebab; 04/10/21 04:45 PM.
#4563602 - 04/10/21 04:52 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Then don't buy the game Asam....but why come attack those of us who do think that it is worth it? Seems unproductive.
I believe this game is the best wwi combat flight sim on the market (again, my opinion). So to me it is worth the money to support the dev team that creates it.

You have made up your mind and you are entitled to it. Have a great day.

#4563603 - 04/10/21 04:54 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

You all seem to be part of the business. The changes incorporated by BH & HII do not justify paying $ 60.
Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers. They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft - the reality is that ROF has more models. WOFF boasts content, and does not have a dauphin, a Pfalz XII etc. ??.
It is not fair to compare it with other video games, we are talking about flight simulators. DCS, Cliff of Dover, Il2 BOS, incorporate regular updates of the game, improvements in all aspects of various gbs, and do not ask for more money to download them. Money is requested to incorporate a new scenario. Aircraft package and missions and campaigns for that new scenario. OBD asks for a lot of money for small modifications. They are within their rights, but it seems to me a way to deceive customers. I don't care what attacks I get from you. I know that I am right.
Greetings.



Er..,.WHAT....erm....wow. Any weight to your argument\opinion and I reckon forum members consideration you've just shot down in flames. There is so much I could write here about what you've just written, but what's the point? The only person who can't see the massive flaws in what you've just posted will be you, it will be obvious to anyone else.

#4563606 - 04/10/21 04:58 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers.


FC when it came out was $70 after the discount. It had 10 planes, 1 small map and (eventually), a small scripted campaign. They are now asking another $70 or more dollars for another 10 planes and a small addition to the map

WOFF:BHaH II is $10 less, has 80 planes, the entire Western Front as a map and a huge Dynamic Campaign with hundreds of squadrons and far superior AI.

Even now a couple years later when FC is offered at 75% off, you still don't end up with anywhere near the product. And RoF doesn't have more planes. That is demonstrably false. They have 39 planes available for sale, including multiple versions of Nieuports and Albatros. And they don't have a Cauldron G4 and are missing many Fokker Eindecker variants of the early war. So yeah, they have 1/2 the number of planes of WOFF: BHaH II, not more. Which is still 4x as many planes as they have in FC, their "new and improved WWI flight sim" that has nowhere near the features of even their old one.

Last edited by Hellshade; 04/10/21 05:14 PM.

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#4563610 - 04/10/21 05:07 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft.


In answer to your statement, I have broken it down as you suggested, and counting all the albatross single seater variants, albatross 2 seater variants, fokker E series, fokker D series etc as a single aircraft, WOFF still has 35 different flyable aircraft.

However to put what you are saying into comparison using cars as an example, you are basically stating that the Mercedes A class is exactly the same as the S class, when they are worlds apart.

The different variants of aircraft reflect the changes the various manufacturers used to keep up with the arms race - I bet you would complain that medal of honour allied assault (which is set in ww2) was unrealistic, if you bought it and discovered that your soldier was armed with a brown bess musket (circa 1815), and the german army were armed with the correct ww2 era weaponry.

At the end of the day if you don't want to buy WOFF BHAHII don't, it really is that simple.


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#4563612 - 04/10/21 05:15 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?

#4563614 - 04/10/21 05:19 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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I have seen Asam's posts on other forums of other games, and have to say he comes out with similar gripes and moans... most people who have a similar outlook don't come onto the forums and complain, they just think it's not for them and pass it by. Such is life.

#4563615 - 04/10/21 05:21 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Rugbyfan1972]  
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Originally Posted by Rugbyfan1972
However to put what you are saying into comparison using cars as an example, you are basically stating that the Mercedes A class is exactly the same as the S class, when they are worlds apart.

The different variants of aircraft reflect the changes the various manufacturers used to keep up with the arms race


Perhaps he thinks he can fly his Alb DI right up through the end of the war.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
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#4563617 - 04/10/21 05:27 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


I want one too Triple J, hahaha pitchafit


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563622 - 04/10/21 05:33 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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lol, idk whether I should even post - I have a mixed opinion that will probably result in everyone getting pissed off exitstageleft

(just saying there are different angles to look at the whole thing - and they lead to different outcomes: personal, marketing, developer, etc.)

Last edited by Redwolf; 04/10/21 05:38 PM.

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#4563625 - 04/10/21 05:40 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Redwolf]  
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Originally Posted by Redwolf
lol, idk whether I should even post - I have a mixed opinion that will probably result in everyone getting pissed off exitstageleft

(just saying there are different angles to look at the whole thing - and they lead to different outcomes)


There’s different angles Redwolf then there’s nonsense posted like “deceiving customers” and we’re “all part of the business”. I agree some people might find it a bit steep, others like myself don’t and others would gladly pay more. I saw a comment on the FB WOFF page that it should be on Steam for $15 ..$15 seriously mate.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563626 - 04/10/21 05:45 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Redwolf Offline
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Oh no, we should never attribute character accusations (or name calling) or anything of that sort. It just isn't a respectful and decent thing to do.

..gosh, I am going to get dragged into this too (I have a very much, on the one hand, but on the other hand take)...ughhh, trying to resist, lol. But yes, I purchased BH&H II - I think it is outstanding.


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
#4563628 - 04/10/21 05:50 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Redwolf]  
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Adger Online smile
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Originally Posted by Redwolf
Oh no, we should never attribute character accusations (or name calling) or anything of that sort. It just isn't a respectful and decent thing to do.

..gosh, I am going to get dragged into this too (I have a very much, on the one hand, but on the other hand take)...ughhh, trying to resist, lol. But yes, I purchased BH&H II - I think it is outstanding.



Its absolutely brilliant isn't it mate ,for me it's OBD'S best work to date and ive flown since P2..man 10 years ive flown OBD's sims salute


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563629 - 04/10/21 05:52 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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LtCasey Offline
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Guys, easy.....no need to argue. Seems like we got infected by a troll. Just let him Pass by. Dont feed it, please.


"What the hell do I care, I know I got them!" Raul Lufberry

AMD Guy! Ryzen 5 3600, 5700xt, 32gb RAM, 2x nvsme Samsung 250gb (system) 500gb (Game) +100gb Backup Corsair ssd. Watercooled. Win 10 64bit.
#4563632 - 04/10/21 06:15 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Fubat Offline
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Light years older than I once ...
Originally Posted by Asam71

You all seem to be part of the business. The changes incorporated by BH & HII do not justify paying $ 60.
Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers. They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft - the reality is that ROF has more models. WOFF boasts content, and does not have a dauphin, a Pfalz XII etc. ??.
It is not fair to compare it with other video games, we are talking about flight simulators. DCS, Cliff of Dover, Il2 BOS, incorporate regular updates of the game, improvements in all aspects of various gbs, and do not ask for more money to download them. Money is requested to incorporate a new scenario. Aircraft package and missions and campaigns for that new scenario. OBD asks for a lot of money for small modifications. They are within their rights, but it seems to me a way to deceive customers. I don't care what attacks I get from you. I know that I am right.
Greetings.


You forget quite possibly one of the most important things BH&H II has that no other (apart from BMS F4), has. A fully dynamic, single player campaign !!! In my book that's worth 60 Bucks of anyones money.

OBD ......... Congratulations on an outstanding release !

Regards.

Fube


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#4563637 - 04/10/21 06:55 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Personally, even though my first love is WWII, and I don't say this lightly - I think the WOFF series is one of the greatest in combat flight sim history when taken in totality. The AI, dynamic campaigning, plane-set, immersion, and atmosphere is at a level so high few can even come close. BH&H II has just taken this and amplified it even more! It is an amazing accomplishment to a premium top class hall-of-fame series. -- is it worth it to me, actually having experienced it so far? Absolutely! (and this is a personal evaluation).

winner

I don't think there is really much credible argument you could make to that price-point if you are new to the series. Buy it and enjoy it! It really is spectacular.

If I was OBD's marketing advisor however, and their goal was to maximize revenue, I think I would have advised a different approach. We are already seeing differences in consumer perception - whether an individual agrees with that or not. And there are also different market segments within the consumer base (for example, those that have PE or have made several purchases in the series) and those that are completely new and potential purchasers. I think the market segment that already has PE is perhaps a bit more price-elastic than OBD is anticipating - though that remains to be seen until it is all said and done, but that is my hunch. OBD at the very least has to battle consumer perception and goodwill to justify the financial outlay at that price-point for the product they offer, especially given the previous expansion pack histories. (notice I am not putting myself in the mix here - as I already stated above, it was entirely worth it to me - and now experiencing it, I have zero regrets in that regard). However, that is going to be an uphill battle for some people (as already seen) - not saying it is right or not, just stating what is. They may have actually achieved greater total revenue by having a lower price point for previous PE owners (whether that is by an add-on system or some other method (though OBD indicated already they didn't want to support two methods (and a further negative is that it works against the perception of it being a totally massive overhaul/new sim-like experience (which it is)).


From purely a developer work point of view, I can completely see where they are coming from - the incredible hard work they put in for 18 months. They spent the blood, sweat, and tears on this over this period of time - then having to place a value on that.

So it is not a simple cut and dry issue at all. And everyone is entitled to their own opinions and has their own personal things that they value or do not - everyone is different, and we are all in different situations too. Just please be respectful to one another. And that is all I have to say.

Though I will add once again, BH&H II is really truly outstanding and OBD has created a real masterpiece! Thank you.


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
#4563641 - 04/10/21 07:10 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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At first: You can compare a flightsim only with a flightsim. ROF and FC are absolut negative examples in my opinion, because these sims are only for instant-action in a MP-Box. That was it!
I can understand, when people say "He, BH&HII is not a new sim. MS-FS-2020 is a new sim" Yes, of course with such a perspective BH&HII is more a big, deep and detailed upgrade with some absolut great new features. And I understand OBD. They have done and worked so much on it about a long time, that I can comprehend the price. And -in difference to other- I trust them! That's important in my eyes, because you can discuss about every price of every sim; it never ends.
I for myself have done this invest not only for an upgrade but also -in according to my conviction- for the future of the sim. And think about WOTR: So long time they haven't had the time to work on it. Now after release of BH&HII they are going to do it. And WWII was the big arena, WOTR could have 150Gb on your Harddisk theoretically! I can imagine that BH&HII will be the WOFF-base for a longer time.

I have installed BH&HII yesterday and I feel good. And that is the best proof for me that it was right (for myself!). If other people feel good when they don't purchase it, then they have made their right decision.

To @olddog: I undestand you absolutely! Fly PE, enjoy it! You have the best WW1-sim you can have and BH&HII is the "luxury-version" as @77_scout has written.


Greetings!

P.S.: The new features, ... WOW!!

Last edited by Becker01; 04/10/21 07:21 PM.
#4563642 - 04/10/21 07:13 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


Well spotted, I normally don't post when I have had a few drinks. It is hopeful thinking on my part, I would like to see albatross 2 seaters in the sim, my eyes miss read avaitik BI & BII as albatross BI & BII.

Hopefully OBD release an add-on which consists of 3 or 4 early war 2 seaters, along with another add-on for the HP series of bombers.


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#4563653 - 04/10/21 08:14 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Rugbyfan1972]  
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Originally Posted by Rugbyfan1972
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


Well spotted, I normally don't post when I have had a few drinks...

Neither do I, but somethimes I can not resist... wink

#4563654 - 04/10/21 08:26 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Adger]  
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Originally Posted by Adger
........Do you think that those of us that have purchased are stupid enough not to know what we are paying for?

Deceive customers?? Absolute nonsense........

........But don’t come on here telling me I’m “part of the business”




All this talk of us being brainwashed or lemming-like reminded me of something mate. biggrin



"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4563656 - 04/10/21 08:50 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Man, the guy has been eaten alive hasn't he

#4563657 - 04/10/21 08:50 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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I don't think I need to pile on any further onto Asam--many other people have already offered some very fine counterpoints to his arguments.

However, as I was thinking about one thing that Asam said, that we must all be part of the business, I realized that he is correct, but not quite in the sense he means. What I mean is that most of us might be considered to be part of the OBD family, but not just because of our fondness for this sim. Instead, it is because so many of the improvements in WOFF that have taken place over the years has been due to input from us, its fans. Indeed, several third-party mods have been directly incorporated into the sim by the devs and have helped make WOFF what it is today. Maybe this is just good business practice, but if it were, why don't more businesses do it? This makes WOFF and OBD unique in this regard and worth supporting, IMHO.

I admit that the price-tag did cause me some initial hesitation. I am but a humble part-time college adjunct Instructor, and money is very, very tight. Furthermore, as I get older, I am having more and more difficulty seeing items on my monitor and I doubt I will be able to do much flying. Still, I think my investment is worth it, not only because of the dramatic improvements to the sim, but also because it will enable OBD to continue to improve BHaH2 and WOTR, at least until they become rich enough to license the Unreal engine and REALLY dazzle us. Also, it should be noted that Winder and Pol had to give up most of their full-time jobs in order to devote as much time as possible to WOFF. They have never been a big time game developer. I don't think you can even call them a studio. No offense, gents!

In the end, the decision to purchase BHaH2 is a highly personal decision. I think I made the right choice, your opinion may differ!

#4563658 - 04/10/21 08:53 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Rugbyfan1972]  
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NotRelevant Offline
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Originally Posted by Rugbyfan1972
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


Well spotted, I normally don't post when I have had a few drinks. It is hopeful thinking on my part, I would like to see albatross 2 seaters in the sim, my eyes miss read avaitik BI & BII as albatross BI & BII.

Hopefully OBD release an add-on which consists of 3 or 4 early war 2 seaters, along with another add-on for the HP series of bombers.


Yeah, some more two seaters and Entente bombers would be nice I reckon.

#4563659 - 04/10/21 09:07 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Albert Tross]  
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Originally Posted by Albert Tross
Originally Posted by Adger
........Do you think that those of us that have purchased are stupid enough not to know what we are paying for?

Deceive customers?? Absolute nonsense........

........But don’t come on here telling me I’m “part of the business”




All this talk of us being brainwashed or lemming-like reminded me of something mate. biggrin






Haha good old Brian "were all different"...Im Not biggrin


Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
I don't think I need to pile on any further onto Asam--many other people have already offered some very fine counterpoints to his arguments.

However, as I was thinking about one thing that Asam said, that we must all be part of the business, I realized that he is correct, but not quite in the sense he means. What I mean is that most of us might be considered to be part of the OBD family, but not just because of our fondness for this sim. Instead, it is because so many of the improvements in WOFF that have taken place over the years has been due to input from us, its fans. Indeed, several third-party mods have been directly incorporated into the sim by the devs and have helped make WOFF what it is today. Maybe this is just good business practice, but if it were, why don't more businesses do it? This makes WOFF and OBD unique in this regard and worth supporting, IMHO.

I admit that the price-tag did cause me some initial hesitation. I am but a humble part-time college adjunct Instructor, and money is very, very tight. Furthermore, as I get older, I am having more and more difficulty seeing items on my monitor and I doubt I will be able to do much flying. Still, I think my investment is worth it, not only because of the dramatic improvements to the sim, but also because it will enable OBD to continue to improve BHaH2 and WOTR, at least until they become rich enough to license the Unreal engine and REALLY dazzle us. Also, it should be noted that Winder and Pol had to give up most of their full-time jobs in order to devote as much time as possible to WOFF. They have never been a big time game developer. I don't think you can even call them a studio. No offense, gents!

In the end, the decision to purchase BHaH2 is a highly personal decision. I think I made the right choice, your opinion may differ!



Excellent post IMO Bob, and i agree to some it's a fair amount of cash, i certainly understand the hesitation if money's tight. Gaming can at times be a bloody expensive hobby

Me personally id try put a bit away each week until i had enough then purchase. And in the meantime id fly PE..and allow others to purchase and fly BHaH II until i could afford or until i wanted to do so. Do glasses help with seeing on your monitor mate or any chance of a bigger Monitor?


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563663 - 04/10/21 09:30 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Adger]  
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Originally Posted by Adger
Excellent post IMO Bob, and i agree to some it's a fair amount of cash, i certainly understand the hesitation if money's tight. Gaming can at times be a bloody expensive hobby

Me personally id try put a bit away each week until i had enough then purchase. And in the meantime id fly PE..and allow others to purchase and fly BHaH II until i could afford or until i wanted to do so. Do glasses help with seeing on your monitor mate or any chance of a bigger Monitor?


Of top of that, flight-simming may be the most expensive type of computer game! Why couldn't I get obsessed with CandyCrush instead?

Just ordered new glasses, mate! Yeah, my wallet took quite a hit this week, what with BHaH2 and two pairs (everyday and computer) of new glasses. Next step is a new monitor, but will have to rub lots of pennies together for that!

#4563664 - 04/10/21 09:37 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Haha Candy crush if i ever hear that tune from my missus's ipad again explode biggrin


Yep your right flight simming can be an expensive business..Joystick,Track IR (Or alternative), wow yep your wallet certainly has been hit, fingers crossed you can get a decent monitor for a good price mate


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563673 - 04/10/21 10:35 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Darmstadt, Germany
Candy crush tunes are brilliant compared to my Ladies bee brilliant obsession.😂

Dont know how much money I've spend for flight simming, but isnt it a sweet feeling to unpack a new Stick or throttle and fly it for the First time?
-Buckeye- enjoy saving up for a new Monitor! I upgraded this year from 26' to 32' curved and it was all worth the effort!


Last edited by LtCasey; 04/10/21 10:38 PM.

"What the hell do I care, I know I got them!" Raul Lufberry

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#4563674 - 04/10/21 10:56 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Haha i haven't had the pleasure yet of Bee brilliant Lt Casey , but if i can fly Bees in cockpit mode then im in pilot hahaha

I still get a buzz from opening new Hardware, Going Off topic a bit (apologies in advance) but what id give to be able to have a big boxed version of sims again like the Microprose ones of old. Manuals,keycharts keyboard overlays
Imagine BHaH II..boxed with a massive manual containing details of craft ect.. mate id pay a small fortune for that.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563808 - 04/11/21 05:38 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Adger]  
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Originally Posted by Adger
Haha i haven't had the pleasure yet of Bee brilliant Lt Casey , but if i can fly Bees in cockpit mode then im in pilot hahaha

I still get a buzz from opening new Hardware, Going Off topic a bit (apologies in advance) but what id give to be able to have a big boxed version of sims again like the Microprose ones of old. Manuals,keycharts keyboard overlays
Imagine BHaH II..boxed with a massive manual containing details of craft ect.. mate id pay a small fortune for that.


Im in for that! Absolutely! To hell with pricing policy! Back in the C64 days, I have made my own overlays. Oh sweet remenberance.

Last edited by LtCasey; 04/11/21 05:40 PM.

"What the hell do I care, I know I got them!" Raul Lufberry

AMD Guy! Ryzen 5 3600, 5700xt, 32gb RAM, 2x nvsme Samsung 250gb (system) 500gb (Game) +100gb Backup Corsair ssd. Watercooled. Win 10 64bit.
#4563861 - 04/12/21 12:14 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Gotta say I too wish for modern Sims to be in the traditional boxes. Although can appreciate the reasons why that day has passed.

I still have all my old flight sims in their original boxes - EAW, MiG Alley, Sabre Ace, CFS1/2/3, MS Flight Sim 10, Il-2 Sturmovik, Rowan's Battle Of Britain, B-17 The Mighty Eighth and Red Baron II. Even kept an old XP computer to be able to fly them.

Treasured games.


"Somewhere out there is page 6!"
"But Emillo you promised ....... it's postpone"
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#4563871 - 04/12/21 01:23 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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#4563875 - 04/12/21 01:52 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Pips and Blade;

Now that view would rival Louverts library for impact alone!


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#4563894 - 04/12/21 08:34 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Blade_Meister]  
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Originally Posted by LtCasey

Im in for that! Absolutely! To hell with pricing policy! Back in the C64 days, I have made my own overlays. Oh sweet remenberance.


Great days mate, great titles.


Originally Posted by PipsPriller
Gotta say I too wish for modern Sims to be in the traditional boxes. Although can appreciate the reasons why that day has passed.

I still have all my old flight sims in their original boxes - EAW, MiG Alley, Sabre Ace, CFS1/2/3, MS Flight Sim 10, Il-2 Sturmovik, Rowan's Battle Of Britain, B-17 The Mighty Eighth and Red Baron II. Even kept an old XP computer to be able to fly them.

Treasured games.



Impressive titles you’ve kept Pips, I sincerely wish I’d kept a lot of mine, house moves over the years and they mostly seem to have disappeared


Originally Posted by Blade_Meister
winkngrin

S!Blade<><

[Linked Image]



That’s a great collection Blade, wow brilliant mate..fwiw I’ve got the Original boxes and manuals of Falcon 4 B 17 the mighty 8th, CFS3, C64,s Gunship and Airborne Ranger., Silent Hunter 4 with manuals and a sew on patch and maps etc..Witcher 2 big boxed version World in conflict with supposedly a piece of the Berlin Wall (I kid you not) biggrin I’d have to go in the spare room and root through I’ve definitely got some gems lurking in there somewhere.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4564021 - 04/13/21 12:42 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: olddog]  
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Originally Posted by olddog
It is ok if you are working and have a good income, myself I am 77 and on state pension I have supported WOFF from the beginning but now this is beyond me so I will just stick to what I have.

I did put up a post asking the cost in the UK and it turned out it is £52.00 at the end of the day my wife and I need the heating more than I need BHAH 11.

Thank you Dornil for asking the question, now I am going to put the cat amongst the pigeons after all is not BHAH 11 just a revamped basic 20th century flight sim ok a very good one.




Old Dog-If you still want the game, but can't afford it, I'll offer to put up half the cost for you on the condition you post a mission report for your first flight here on the forum. PM me if you are interested, and we'll work out the details.

Last edited by Combs; 04/13/21 12:43 AM.

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#4564025 - 04/13/21 01:28 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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I hate being upstaged Blade! smile

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#4564026 - 04/13/21 01:41 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Blade_Meister]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 736
OvStachel Offline
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OvStachel  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 736
Long Island, NY
I spy "Vietcong"!! That was a great game! Loved it!


The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4564029 - 04/13/21 02:09 AM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: PipsPriller]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,731
Blade_Meister Offline
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Blade_Meister  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,731
Atlanta, GA, USA
Originally Posted by PipsPriller
I hate being upstaged Blade! smile


Nobody is trying to upstage anyone Sir, but honestly, you don't want to go here with me. hahaha This is a small sampling of what sits behind me in a stack, quick accessibility flights sims, just in case my current offerings are not quenching my thirst. yep I just pulled out 21 more flight sims from 1 side of the computer armoire that you see in the pic from my previous post. rolleyes If need be, I will dig into the other side for some real old school flight sims, but I would rather not as it scares me as to what I might find on the other side. exitstageleft
This might be a good topic for a new thread, 'Show us your game stash!

Originally Posted by OvStachel
I spy "Vietcong"!! That was a great game! Loved it!

Remember 'Purple Haze'? A great addition to Vietcong. I loved playing online. It was a tough SP sim though, but a lot of fun as you said. yep

Originally Posted by Adger
That’s a great collection Blade, wow brilliant mate..fwiw I’ve got the Original boxes and manuals of Falcon 4 B 17 the mighty 8th, CFS3, C64,s Gunship and Airborne Ranger., Silent Hunter 4 with manuals and a sew on patch and maps etc..Witcher 2 big boxed version World in conflict with supposedly a piece of the Berlin Wall (I kid you not) biggrin I’d have to go in the spare room and root through I’ve definitely got some gems lurking in there somewhere.


Nice collection Adger. I have a ton of games, LOL. I have dog tags from Red Orchetra and probably every paper manual that came with every one of my games. Have been Jonsing for some old old school 'Medal of Honor, Pacific Assault'. I just saw it in the stack, I may have to load it up and see how it plays on the new rig.


S!Blade<><

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Last edited by Blade_Meister; 04/13/21 02:30 AM.
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