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#4563603 - 04/10/21 04:54 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

You all seem to be part of the business. The changes incorporated by BH & HII do not justify paying $ 60.
Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers. They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft - the reality is that ROF has more models. WOFF boasts content, and does not have a dauphin, a Pfalz XII etc. ??.
It is not fair to compare it with other video games, we are talking about flight simulators. DCS, Cliff of Dover, Il2 BOS, incorporate regular updates of the game, improvements in all aspects of various gbs, and do not ask for more money to download them. Money is requested to incorporate a new scenario. Aircraft package and missions and campaigns for that new scenario. OBD asks for a lot of money for small modifications. They are within their rights, but it seems to me a way to deceive customers. I don't care what attacks I get from you. I know that I am right.
Greetings.



Er..,.WHAT....erm....wow. Any weight to your argument\opinion and I reckon forum members consideration you've just shot down in flames. There is so much I could write here about what you've just written, but what's the point? The only person who can't see the massive flaws in what you've just posted will be you, it will be obvious to anyone else.

#4563606 - 04/10/21 04:58 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers.


FC when it came out was $70 after the discount. It had 10 planes, 1 small map and (eventually), a small scripted campaign. They are now asking another $70 or more dollars for another 10 planes and a small addition to the map

WOFF:BHaH II is $10 less, has 80 planes, the entire Western Front as a map and a huge Dynamic Campaign with hundreds of squadrons and far superior AI.

Even now a couple years later when FC is offered at 75% off, you still don't end up with anywhere near the product. And RoF doesn't have more planes. That is demonstrably false. They have 39 planes available for sale, including multiple versions of Nieuports and Albatros. And they don't have a Cauldron G4 and are missing many Fokker Eindecker variants of the early war. So yeah, they have 1/2 the number of planes of WOFF: BHaH II, not more. Which is still 4x as many planes as they have in FC, their "new and improved WWI flight sim" that has nowhere near the features of even their old one.

Last edited by Hellshade; 04/10/21 05:14 PM.

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#4563610 - 04/10/21 05:07 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft.


In answer to your statement, I have broken it down as you suggested, and counting all the albatross single seater variants, albatross 2 seater variants, fokker E series, fokker D series etc as a single aircraft, WOFF still has 35 different flyable aircraft.

However to put what you are saying into comparison using cars as an example, you are basically stating that the Mercedes A class is exactly the same as the S class, when they are worlds apart.

The different variants of aircraft reflect the changes the various manufacturers used to keep up with the arms race - I bet you would complain that medal of honour allied assault (which is set in ww2) was unrealistic, if you bought it and discovered that your soldier was armed with a brown bess musket (circa 1815), and the german army were armed with the correct ww2 era weaponry.

At the end of the day if you don't want to buy WOFF BHAHII don't, it really is that simple.


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#4563612 - 04/10/21 05:15 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?

#4563614 - 04/10/21 05:19 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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I have seen Asam's posts on other forums of other games, and have to say he comes out with similar gripes and moans... most people who have a similar outlook don't come onto the forums and complain, they just think it's not for them and pass it by. Such is life.

#4563615 - 04/10/21 05:21 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Rugbyfan1972]  
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Originally Posted by Rugbyfan1972
However to put what you are saying into comparison using cars as an example, you are basically stating that the Mercedes A class is exactly the same as the S class, when they are worlds apart.

The different variants of aircraft reflect the changes the various manufacturers used to keep up with the arms race


Perhaps he thinks he can fly his Alb DI right up through the end of the war.


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#4563617 - 04/10/21 05:27 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


I want one too Triple J, hahaha pitchafit


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
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#4563622 - 04/10/21 05:33 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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lol, idk whether I should even post - I have a mixed opinion that will probably result in everyone getting pissed off exitstageleft

(just saying there are different angles to look at the whole thing - and they lead to different outcomes: personal, marketing, developer, etc.)

Last edited by Redwolf; 04/10/21 05:38 PM.

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#4563625 - 04/10/21 05:40 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Redwolf]  
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Originally Posted by Redwolf
lol, idk whether I should even post - I have a mixed opinion that will probably result in everyone getting pissed off exitstageleft

(just saying there are different angles to look at the whole thing - and they lead to different outcomes)


There’s different angles Redwolf then there’s nonsense posted like “deceiving customers” and we’re “all part of the business”. I agree some people might find it a bit steep, others like myself don’t and others would gladly pay more. I saw a comment on the FB WOFF page that it should be on Steam for $15 ..$15 seriously mate.


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563626 - 04/10/21 05:45 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Oh no, we should never attribute character accusations (or name calling) or anything of that sort. It just isn't a respectful and decent thing to do.

..gosh, I am going to get dragged into this too (I have a very much, on the one hand, but on the other hand take)...ughhh, trying to resist, lol. But yes, I purchased BH&H II - I think it is outstanding.


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#4563628 - 04/10/21 05:50 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Redwolf]  
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Originally Posted by Redwolf
Oh no, we should never attribute character accusations (or name calling) or anything of that sort. It just isn't a respectful and decent thing to do.

..gosh, I am going to get dragged into this too (I have a very much, on the one hand, but on the other hand take)...ughhh, trying to resist, lol. But yes, I purchased BH&H II - I think it is outstanding.



Its absolutely brilliant isn't it mate ,for me it's OBD'S best work to date and ive flown since P2..man 10 years ive flown OBD's sims salute


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4563629 - 04/10/21 05:52 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Guys, easy.....no need to argue. Seems like we got infected by a troll. Just let him Pass by. Dont feed it, please.


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#4563632 - 04/10/21 06:15 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71

You all seem to be part of the business. The changes incorporated by BH & HII do not justify paying $ 60.
Since they mention ROF, every 2 months or so it makes 75% offers. FC less frequently, but also offers 75% offers. They mention that WOFF has 80 aircraft, but in reality they are variants of the same aircraft - the reality is that ROF has more models. WOFF boasts content, and does not have a dauphin, a Pfalz XII etc. ??.
It is not fair to compare it with other video games, we are talking about flight simulators. DCS, Cliff of Dover, Il2 BOS, incorporate regular updates of the game, improvements in all aspects of various gbs, and do not ask for more money to download them. Money is requested to incorporate a new scenario. Aircraft package and missions and campaigns for that new scenario. OBD asks for a lot of money for small modifications. They are within their rights, but it seems to me a way to deceive customers. I don't care what attacks I get from you. I know that I am right.
Greetings.


You forget quite possibly one of the most important things BH&H II has that no other (apart from BMS F4), has. A fully dynamic, single player campaign !!! In my book that's worth 60 Bucks of anyones money.

OBD ......... Congratulations on an outstanding release !

Regards.

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#4563637 - 04/10/21 06:55 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Personally, even though my first love is WWII, and I don't say this lightly - I think the WOFF series is one of the greatest in combat flight sim history when taken in totality. The AI, dynamic campaigning, plane-set, immersion, and atmosphere is at a level so high few can even come close. BH&H II has just taken this and amplified it even more! It is an amazing accomplishment to a premium top class hall-of-fame series. -- is it worth it to me, actually having experienced it so far? Absolutely! (and this is a personal evaluation).

winner

I don't think there is really much credible argument you could make to that price-point if you are new to the series. Buy it and enjoy it! It really is spectacular.

If I was OBD's marketing advisor however, and their goal was to maximize revenue, I think I would have advised a different approach. We are already seeing differences in consumer perception - whether an individual agrees with that or not. And there are also different market segments within the consumer base (for example, those that have PE or have made several purchases in the series) and those that are completely new and potential purchasers. I think the market segment that already has PE is perhaps a bit more price-elastic than OBD is anticipating - though that remains to be seen until it is all said and done, but that is my hunch. OBD at the very least has to battle consumer perception and goodwill to justify the financial outlay at that price-point for the product they offer, especially given the previous expansion pack histories. (notice I am not putting myself in the mix here - as I already stated above, it was entirely worth it to me - and now experiencing it, I have zero regrets in that regard). However, that is going to be an uphill battle for some people (as already seen) - not saying it is right or not, just stating what is. They may have actually achieved greater total revenue by having a lower price point for previous PE owners (whether that is by an add-on system or some other method (though OBD indicated already they didn't want to support two methods (and a further negative is that it works against the perception of it being a totally massive overhaul/new sim-like experience (which it is)).


From purely a developer work point of view, I can completely see where they are coming from - the incredible hard work they put in for 18 months. They spent the blood, sweat, and tears on this over this period of time - then having to place a value on that.

So it is not a simple cut and dry issue at all. And everyone is entitled to their own opinions and has their own personal things that they value or do not - everyone is different, and we are all in different situations too. Just please be respectful to one another. And that is all I have to say.

Though I will add once again, BH&H II is really truly outstanding and OBD has created a real masterpiece! Thank you.


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#4563641 - 04/10/21 07:10 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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At first: You can compare a flightsim only with a flightsim. ROF and FC are absolut negative examples in my opinion, because these sims are only for instant-action in a MP-Box. That was it!
I can understand, when people say "He, BH&HII is not a new sim. MS-FS-2020 is a new sim" Yes, of course with such a perspective BH&HII is more a big, deep and detailed upgrade with some absolut great new features. And I understand OBD. They have done and worked so much on it about a long time, that I can comprehend the price. And -in difference to other- I trust them! That's important in my eyes, because you can discuss about every price of every sim; it never ends.
I for myself have done this invest not only for an upgrade but also -in according to my conviction- for the future of the sim. And think about WOTR: So long time they haven't had the time to work on it. Now after release of BH&HII they are going to do it. And WWII was the big arena, WOTR could have 150Gb on your Harddisk theoretically! I can imagine that BH&HII will be the WOFF-base for a longer time.

I have installed BH&HII yesterday and I feel good. And that is the best proof for me that it was right (for myself!). If other people feel good when they don't purchase it, then they have made their right decision.

To @olddog: I undestand you absolutely! Fly PE, enjoy it! You have the best WW1-sim you can have and BH&HII is the "luxury-version" as @77_scout has written.


Greetings!

P.S.: The new features, ... WOW!!

Last edited by Becker01; 04/10/21 07:21 PM.
#4563642 - 04/10/21 07:13 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


Well spotted, I normally don't post when I have had a few drinks. It is hopeful thinking on my part, I would like to see albatross 2 seaters in the sim, my eyes miss read avaitik BI & BII as albatross BI & BII.

Hopefully OBD release an add-on which consists of 3 or 4 early war 2 seaters, along with another add-on for the HP series of bombers.


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#4563653 - 04/10/21 08:14 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Rugbyfan1972]  
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Originally Posted by Rugbyfan1972
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Albatros 2 seater variants? Did I miss anything?


Well spotted, I normally don't post when I have had a few drinks...

Neither do I, but somethimes I can not resist... wink

#4563654 - 04/10/21 08:26 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Adger]  
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Originally Posted by Adger
........Do you think that those of us that have purchased are stupid enough not to know what we are paying for?

Deceive customers?? Absolute nonsense........

........But don’t come on here telling me I’m “part of the business”




All this talk of us being brainwashed or lemming-like reminded me of something mate. biggrin



"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4563656 - 04/10/21 08:50 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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Man, the guy has been eaten alive hasn't he

#4563657 - 04/10/21 08:50 PM Re: Pricing policy... [Re: Dornil]  
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I don't think I need to pile on any further onto Asam--many other people have already offered some very fine counterpoints to his arguments.

However, as I was thinking about one thing that Asam said, that we must all be part of the business, I realized that he is correct, but not quite in the sense he means. What I mean is that most of us might be considered to be part of the OBD family, but not just because of our fondness for this sim. Instead, it is because so many of the improvements in WOFF that have taken place over the years has been due to input from us, its fans. Indeed, several third-party mods have been directly incorporated into the sim by the devs and have helped make WOFF what it is today. Maybe this is just good business practice, but if it were, why don't more businesses do it? This makes WOFF and OBD unique in this regard and worth supporting, IMHO.

I admit that the price-tag did cause me some initial hesitation. I am but a humble part-time college adjunct Instructor, and money is very, very tight. Furthermore, as I get older, I am having more and more difficulty seeing items on my monitor and I doubt I will be able to do much flying. Still, I think my investment is worth it, not only because of the dramatic improvements to the sim, but also because it will enable OBD to continue to improve BHaH2 and WOTR, at least until they become rich enough to license the Unreal engine and REALLY dazzle us. Also, it should be noted that Winder and Pol had to give up most of their full-time jobs in order to devote as much time as possible to WOFF. They have never been a big time game developer. I don't think you can even call them a studio. No offense, gents!

In the end, the decision to purchase BHaH2 is a highly personal decision. I think I made the right choice, your opinion may differ!

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