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#4560228 - 03/16/21 03:24 PM What is the penalty for littering in space?  
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Space station tosses 2.9-ton hunk of space junk overboard. It will stay in orbit for years.

https://www.space.com/space-station-jettisons-huge-space-junk-pallet

They couldn't bring it back to earth bit at a time on the SpaceX supply ship?

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#4560230 - 03/16/21 03:39 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Elon Musk litters in space with Starlink.

#4560231 - 03/16/21 03:47 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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42000 satellites for Satellite internet service!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink Will the service drop during cloudy and rainy days?

#4560241 - 03/16/21 05:15 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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How come we haven't seen any angry street protests from Greenpeace yet over this incident?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4560247 - 03/16/21 05:33 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Will the service drop during cloudy and rainy days?



You've looked up the term "trolling" before right?


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4560279 - 03/16/21 08:39 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Elon Musk litters in space with Starlink.


I would agree. While the idea of making internet access available to those who wouldn't otherwise have it is great, I do worry about the possibility of collisions with that many new satellites being put into orbit. We have got to be getting very close to the point that one collision would cause a cascade of collisions to start blocking space travel for decades. This isn't even counting the fact that astronomers are going to have a hard time finding a 'window' that one of those Star Link sats doesn't cross. I'm a big fan of Space X, but this scheme really does worry me.


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#4560281 - 03/16/21 08:45 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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The other thing to consider is EM saturation in the atmosphere.

EM at consumer wavelengths(sub x-ray or UV) in normal doses is not ionizing, however, too much EM even at these microwave or lower wavelengths passing through a body can eventually ionize. Cellphones? No. Cell towers? No. A highly saturated atmosphere with EM dependent technologies to the extreme(we aren't close to here yet)--yes. So broad global orbital to ground EM technologies for devices on the scale of mankind long term probably aren't a good thing. There are eventual limits where this kind of stuff will begin to be harmful.

No, I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat. This is true physics.

#4560284 - 03/16/21 09:05 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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I think that U pay a fine or U have to go back and pick the litter up

Last edited by carrick58; 03/16/21 09:05 PM.
#4560329 - 03/17/21 02:23 AM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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It is likely far less of a concern than the thousands of fragments created when the PRC destroyed their own satellite during an ASAT test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon#Chinese_ASATs


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#4560336 - 03/17/21 02:51 AM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Its going to be a major project to clean up Earth orbit one day.

And that's if it isn't intentionally seeded with sand grains or the like as a space denial effort in some future war.

#4560338 - 03/17/21 04:21 AM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Matrix movie was right: you humans multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague.

#4560339 - 03/17/21 04:45 AM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Every living organism is the same way. If any other animal or living creature could reproduce as quickly and dominate their environments as effectively, they would be just as plentiful as humanity. Homo Sapiens just do it better.


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#4560347 - 03/17/21 10:31 AM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Matrix movie was right: you humans multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague.



So when will you be killing yourself then or is this just another one of your cutesy flippant comments?

Let’s not get too personal in our comments. Community Hall should be for pleasant conversations.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 03/17/21 06:26 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4560378 - 03/17/21 02:04 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Matrix movie was right: you humans multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague.



So when will you be killing yourself then or is this just another one of your cutesy flippant comments?


Panzer needs love. Poor fella!

And don’t respond in kind to personal attacks.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 03/17/21 06:27 PM.
#4560381 - 03/17/21 02:09 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Matrix movie was right: you humans multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague.



So when will you be killing yourself then or is this just another one of your cutesy flippant comments?


Panzer needs love. Poor fella!



Apparently you're the one who needs some since you think all of humanity is a "virus".


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4560395 - 03/17/21 03:23 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: Herman]  
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Originally Posted by Herman
Every living organism is the same way. If any other animal or living creature could reproduce as quickly and dominate their environments as effectively, they would be just as plentiful as humanity. Homo Sapiens just do it better.

Exactly. The pattern has been documented all over the world. Predators feed on prey until there is not enough to sustain the population. Predator numbers decrease because there's not enough food. Prey numbers increase because of lowered predation. Predator population increases because of plentiful food, and the cycle repeats.

The difference, NFB, is that humans cultivate their food. We plant food crops instead of searching for where they grow spontaneously. We produce sources of meat and instead of relying exclusively on hunting. A few other species do so on a MUCH smaller scale, but none has accomplished it to the degree that humans have.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4560398 - 03/17/21 03:43 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Humans are the only creatures that have walked this Earth who have successfully created and refined a way to store records of events, discoveries, technologies and culture for future generations to review and learn from. This alone separates us from every other beast or insect in the wild. That we continue to embrace barbaric desires such as sexual lust or hedonistic deviancy detracts from this advantage we give ourselves.

Ascension requires relinquishing these urges and levering this knowledge for the betterment of the world.


On topic, as the OP suggests, perhaps we've littered a bit too much in space, already. In vague defense of Starlink, the satellites do de-orbit after five years or so, and burn up on reentry. But what if this fails to happen? And what if Starlink is only the first--what if the whole world moves to extreme EM dependence? We could eventually increase the amplitude high enough that we ionize ourselves out of existence, and all that will remain are those records. Hopefully we record our downfall in such a way that survives the test of time, as well.


I do not think that internet needs to be wireless on the EM spectrum. I view these starlink satellites as space trash.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 03/17/21 03:45 PM.
#4560406 - 03/17/21 04:46 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Humans are the only creatures that have walked this Earth who have successfully created and refined a way to store records of events, discoveries, technologies and culture for future generations to review and learn from. This alone separates us from every other beast or insect in the wild. That we continue to embrace barbaric desires such as sexual lust or hedonistic deviancy detracts from this advantage we give ourselves.

Ascension requires relinquishing these urges and levering this knowledge for the betterment of the world.

Other living organisms store records, but in a different way. They do it in their genetic material. Plants pass on 'knowledge', such as defence against predators, gained through their existence to the next generation. Animals teach their young.

Dolphins also participate in 'barbaric desires such as sexual lust'; they copulate for purposes other than procreation.


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#4560409 - 03/17/21 05:05 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Right, but what others forms of life have a record of their past that they can peruse on a whim and learn from? These records give us cognizant awareness of reality.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 03/17/21 05:05 PM.
#4560415 - 03/17/21 05:23 PM Re: What is the penalty for littering in space? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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No one knows if they are cognizant of their past record. Just because we cannot fathom their senses, does not mean that they might not be self-aware. There are claims that stands of different trees can communicate with other distant stands, possibly through pheremones.

We are unable to understand whale song. How are we to know if they might be singing their entire histories to each other or not? Many tribes kept their community knowledge solely through story-telling, with no written record. Animals may be doing something similar; we just can't (yet) understand their language.


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