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#4558436 - 03/03/21 03:18 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 341
orbyxP Offline
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orbyxP  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 341
Washington State
This will be my last post answering your nonsense because you’re tone is like a bully, but you are clueless as usual. You don’t know how to converse without antagonizing and putting down someone who doesn’t see your point of view.

RTX IO and direct storage allows the nvme drive to communicate more efficiently with the rtx gpu using the direct storage API.

Also, it’s not automatically applied to all games. So, it’s highly unlikely that WOFF will benefit from this technology because developers have to make use of the API and nvidia needs to release drivers for making use of the RTX IO on WOFF. Maybe you’ll see this technology in newer games like MSFS 2020 and such.

Oh, and when did you automatically become mr. know it all?

Last edited by orbyxP; 03/03/21 03:35 PM.
#4558441 - 03/03/21 03:35 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 809
kksnowbear Offline
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kksnowbear  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 809
Once again, the name-calling...unfortunate you feel it necessary to do that. The moderators here have repeatedly said this has no place in a civil discussion.

I'm sorry you're wrong, but you set yourself up for that, not me. I'm just showing facts that contradict what you're claiming. I know very well how to converse, thanks - I just call out inaccurate technical facts when I see them. Again, this is because I hope to help others who read these forums and might not know any better.

I already acknowledged it's not automatically in any game. I know that. No one said anything specifically about WOFF, just 'games' in general.

And, as I said above, the sources I've quoted are real, professional people, directly involved in the exact technologies we are discussing, and their statements contradict what you're trying to represent as fact.

I don't claim to know it all. I do research and try to be thorough and stick to the facts.

It seems you're getting upset that the facts show you are incorrect. I'm really sorry, but they are what they are.


Last edited by kksnowbear; 03/03/21 03:56 PM.
#4558450 - 03/03/21 04:35 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,160
Polovski Offline
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Posts: 7,160
OK the thread is done people can go and read their own tech websites for the lowdown of course.
AGAIN NO name calling allowed no matter how much someone is right or wrong.


Last edited by Polovski; 03/03/21 04:36 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4558470 - 03/03/21 07:13 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,337
Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
Hellshade  Offline
Hellshade
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,337
Florida
Thanks Pol. The purpose of the links was merely to inform. Not to inflame.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4558533 - 03/04/21 05:52 AM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,707
Blade_Meister Offline
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Blade_Meister  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,707
Atlanta, GA, USA
Originally Posted by orbyxP
Blade, you are KK’s perfect uninformed customer. Show me in any reputable article where pcie4.0 offers double the performance in games. You won’t find it. Why because it mostly relates to read/write performance of storage..... databases and similar software will benefit from it. Games performance will not.... maybe a FEW SECONDS faster loading. Most video cards can’t use all pcie3s bandwidth to begin with. Pcie4 won’t benefit games now or in the near future. We all have opinions, but no need to post that you were rolling on the floor because I shared my opinion. That was rude.

Oh and BTW, you should have gone with an intel 10600 instead of the AMD 5600. That’s my opinion.


I thought this thread was deleted and did not know that it was moved here. After having read the the insulting comments made by orbyxP, I decided I would write this account of how uninformed I actually am as a computer expert. Love hate or simply feeling neutral about kksnowbear, the input he brings here does not touch the surface as to the kind of person he is. So I have decided to relate my experience of corresponding with him during my pre-build planning, purchasing phase and finally meeting and working with him in person to physically build my new rig. I wrote this general review of my build experience with kksnowbear about a week and a half ago I think, but I never posted it because this thread disappeared. Without further adieu, here is my experience.

You know I am not really surprised by much that is posted here or on any Forum anymore, but your(orbyxP) insults and personal attacks are starting to piss me off. Your smug language doesn't hide the underlying assumption of your own self purported computer hardware prowess. I may not have the technical knowledge of kksnowbear or even yourself, but that doesn't mean that I was 'his perfectly uniformed customer'. Not having built a rig in over 7 years and only having done an upgrade about 5 years ago(GPU,Ram only) I needed help coming up to speed on the new tech. I approached him for help in making smart choices in planning my new semi high end rig, but that doesn't mean I just asked him to build me a system.

I set out my initial build goals and budget caps for the MB, PCU,GPU,PSU,RAM, Case and internal drives. I emailed my choices for each of the aforementioned and kksnowbear took the time through multiple PMs here on SimHQ and emails to start at the case and work his way through my list advising,critiquing, suggesting and presenting information relating the choices of what would work best within my goals and budget. One of my main goals was to future proof my new rig as much as possible considering I only do a ground up build about every 7 to 8 years. Meanwhile I was reading everything I could to help me get up to speed on the critical components so that I was able to make wise decisions before purchasing any hardware. With each component he helped to show some options that were possibly cheaper, as that is his thing to build the most powerful system within the budget or for less money. He did help me save quite a bit of money from my initial choices of the different components, which was then redirected to components that would up the capabilities of what I was soon to build. In the end though I chose these components, not at his direction but at my newly acquired knowledge which came from a lot of research on my own part and a lot of knowledge shared by kksnowbear. I chose the Ryzen 5 5600x(before I even contacted him), the G.Skill C16 3600 Ram, my 2 PCIe 4 Samsung 980 Pro NVMe M.2 drives, the BRB, the upgraded fans and a few other smaller additions that I wanted. He offered to sell me a very good condition, stress tested(99.5%) EVGA RTX2070 ac Ultra, still under warranty, for a very reasonable price. Then kksnowbear offered to sell me an almost brand new, his personal PSU used only for a few months testing purposes, semi modular Corsair Tx850m after calculating the needed wattage for my proposed system. I was intent on buying an Asus 1000watt PSU(more cowbell!!!) which would have cost at least 100$ more, but after calculating my needs, even if I upped my CPU and added an Nvidia 3080 card in the future, he showed me that an 850 watt PSU was more than enough power. He saved me from spending upwards of 200 extra dollars on an Asus gaming MB and taught me and encouraged me to read up on the Asus Prime X570 P chipset and MB. I learned that this MB suited my purposes quite well, one aspect of which was future proofing as best as I could with its' PCIe 4 expansion slots and NVMe M.2 slots. I learned from my own reading plus kksnowbear pointing out the advantages of this MB in that this was tech that only AMD is supporting currently and that RTX I/O and DirectStorage, both PCIe 4 based technologies, were most likely to be game changing technologies that I may be able to tap into in the future. Maybe this new tech will be used, maybe it won't, but I am poised to take advantage of it if it does materialize and the uptake in speed of IPC and data trasposrting as a result of them is quite promising for PC gamers. And yes technically PCIe4 plus NVME m.2 drives do load games faster. Not much faster right now, but I am willing to bet that within my hopeful 8 years use of this rig that this technology will mature and it will become an advantage for game loading and even game performance possibly. Also I learned that within this 8 year window that I can make a CPU upgrade to an AMD Ryzen 9 5900X(once the price comes down a good bit) and roughly double my CPU capacity along with a GPU upgrade to a 3000 series or even higher card release in a few years. That to me is a very important issue and was one of the most tip top goals of my original proposal.

I did pay him a technical consulting/coaching fee, at my insistence, to oversee my actual hands on assembly and testing process for this build. I insisted on this because I had never used Windows 10, NVMe drives or any SSD drive period and my last physical build was 7 years ago. He unselfishly offered to let me do the physical build at his home and offered to guide me through the pricing, purchasing, software installation, testing and to teach me the drive Imaging and Image Restore process.

Once at his home, after I assembled all of the components on a test bench outside the case, the new rig would not boot into the Bios. Nothing we did would facilitate booting this new rig. kksnowbear pulled one of his personal computers out and I stripped my MB of all parts except the PSU, and he generously pulled all of the guts out of his AMD Ryzen 3 3600 rig. We rebuilt my MB with his known working parts, and the new rig booted into the Bios immediately. He went in the Bios and checked the Bios version number and then looked on the Asus website and checked the version number of the most current Bios revision. This latest revision was at least 6 iterations above the Bios version on my brand new MB. We downloaded and ez-flashed the new Bios update and then I proceeded to rebuild my MB with all of my new components, and low and behold my new rig booted into the Bios immediately. I never would have known to look for this, much less have the spare computer parts to test and resolve this problem. Kksnowbear went on from there helping me purchase a Win10 Pro license, saving me 90+ $ from a retail version and then install windows, set up drivers and once the rig was stable, he started teaching me of the Imaging Process. There was a driver problem which was corrupting the Image Restore process and we were both quite frustrated with the computer and honestly I was frustrated with the whole thing. After convincing me to trust him and let him work on it to figure out what was going wrong, he spent his time over the next couple of days testing and rooting out the problem. He revealed that one of the drivers was corrupting the process and after reinstalling that driver in a different way he presented me with my initial Image for my new rig. He also helped me create a boot disc and walked me through actually booting the rig from the boot disk and restoring the known good Image onto my new windows M.2 drive so that I could learn the process in case I screwed something major up in the future. That day I took home my new rig and began the unpleasant journey of fighting, learning and trying to tame Win10. I hate it and wish I had Win7 again, but it is what it is.

After 4 visits to his home to complete this process I have come to know kksnowbear pretty well. Not only is he overly qualified in the computer field, spouting specs, acronyms and information way above my head sometimes, LOL, but getting to know him, he is quite a level headed straight shooting, genuinely nice man that will do whatever is needed, spend whatever time is needed and will not give up until the project is completed. When dealing with kksnowbear, It is what it is, and then you move on from there. He is completely devoted to and loves tackling anything computer related. It was my Blessing to meet both him and his wife, work and correspond with him, and employ kksnowbear to help guide and teach me during this new rig building process. This is the 3rd rig which I have had a hands on involvement in the last 18 years and I learned the most during this present build. Some of you may say,' why would you pay for him to help you'? If anything I still owe him for the amount of time, research, dozens of Pms, emails, texts, phone calls, meeting me at Microcenter to purchase my CPU which he had reserved for me when there were no 5600s available and the effort he put into my project to help make sure I was happy when it was complete. That is why I paid him and it was money well spent IMHO. If anything I received information overload because kksnowbear wanted to be sure I had the information to make wise decisions and purchases that weren't a waste of money regarding the original build goals. Yes I had a Build plan that I submitted to him to state my goals for my new rig and this is where it all started and I am happy to say that all goals have been achieved in my new rig.

I get the impression that some may think kksnowbear comes off as a know it all. First off there is no such person relating to computers, or anything else in this world for that matter, and he will readily admit that he does not know everything computer related. I will tell you this though, if he doesn't know, he will find out the facts, do his own testing if possible and then report back once he has the understanding and knowledge of the subject in question. If those that have butted heads with kksnowbear's knew of the testing setup that he employs, then you would know that he does real world testing A LOT and only posts the truth in data whether it is what one wanted to hear or not. He doesn't just read testing data or reviews and blindly accept whatever is printed. He does real world testing whenever it is possible for him and trust me he has a lot of hardware that he gladly jigsaw puzzles together and records first hand data from the testing results. I don't jokingly call him Dr. Frankenputer just to be funny. This dude has a laboratory and I was half way expecting Igor to pop his head in at any moment and offer his assistance when I was at his home. Again, it was my Blessing to work with you kksnowbear.

We all have opinions, I get it, but they are best left at the door when dealing with computers. It's just 1s and 0s, and the data is the proof in the pudding. Kksnowbear and I didn't build the most powerful rig in my build, not by a long shot. One thing I do know is that this rig most likely will be pretty much future proof for some years to come and that PCIe 4 will be a part of that future. The Asus Prime x570 P MB I purchased was 149$(normally up to 259$) on sale and supports PCIe4 in both the Expansion slot and the NVME M.2 SSD slots. Maybe the current GPUs don't use all of the available bandwith in PCIe 3 currently, but rest your bottom dollar that most likely PCIe 4 will be the new high benchmark in the gamer's PC builds in just a few years. Anyone who honestly thinks different need only look at the jump from PCIe2 to PCIe 3 in the not to distant past. Is PCIe4 a must have right now? Nope, but it will be in the future. You heard it here first and even Intel is now working on using PCIe4 after putting out a lot of information downplaying and even rebuking the need for PCIe4 as a next step in PC evolution. Technology never slows down, it is how they drive the market and sustain viable profits from any perspective PC buyer or builder. Bigger, faster, more eye candy, it is a viscous cycle but it is not going to stop anytime soon. I have a system that is pretty close to top of the line, that is the way I always build new rigs, but in 6 months from now, it will be old news. If tech progresses in the direction it looks to be going, I will at least have one big upgrade ahead of me which will at the least almost double my CPU capacity and with RTX I/O and DirectStorage possibly finding its' way into the market plus at least one or two GPU upgrade cycles, I feel pretty good about the choices I ended up making with kksnowbear's help. As far as going with Intel and PCIe 3, well I am an AMD guy and I will stick with who is driving the Tech and Spec end of the market at a lower price while looking at the future advances coming down the pike thank you very much. So yea, come to think of it, if that makes me the 'perfect uninformed customer' for kksnowbear, then it was my pleasure to be just that and come out the other end with a nice, well running AMD rig. Thanks kksnowbear for all you did to help me Sir!

Thus endeth my PC building experience with kksnowbear, but more importantly I have made a new friend who, after the completion of this rig, offered to help with any new information that I may need(I am looking at a new 32" curved Gsync monitor, possibly a Samsung G7), ongoing support for my new rig and the offer to help clean and upgrade my old Girl, the AMD Phenom II 965 BE with the GTX 770 that I have been using the last 8 years. So I still have another session of being kksnowbear's 'perfect uninformed customer' when we tackle the old girl and give her a freshening up. I have to say, I am going to enjoy being put into that 'perfect uninformed customer' position once again, as I feel I am in good hands when I do. winkngrin

S!Blade<><

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 03/04/21 06:18 AM.
#4558557 - 03/04/21 11:22 AM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,623
RAF_Louvert Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
RAF_Louvert  Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,623
L'Etoile du Nord
.

Well said Blade, well said indeed. And my own experiences enlisting kksnowbear's expertise and advise on computer builds and upgrades over the years mirrors your own, though I've never had the pleasure of actually visiting his lab, you lucky dog!
Does he rub people the wrong way at times? Indeed he does. Will he debate a point to the bitter end? Most assuredly. Does he know of what he speaks when it comes to this subject? Absolutely.
Love him or hate him, he doesn't blow smoke, unlike a CPU I fried many years ago because I thought I knew how to overclock it, which I likely wouldn't have done had I known him then and could have asked his advice about it.

Cheers,

Lou


EDIT: I feel I should also mention that the rig he helped me put together last fall, (on a budget I might add), is as of this morning still in the top 20 out of all i5-10600K CPU builds using any GPU models or brands, and in the top 40 out of all RTX 2070 Super GPU builds using any CPU models or brands. Impressive, in particular when you consider this is out of the tens of thousands of recorded benchmark results posted at 3DMark from builds around the world, with new results being added daily.

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4558574 - 03/04/21 01:15 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,709
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,709
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
For what it's worth, let me jump in hear and also state that I have had nothing but positive dialogue with KK over the past few months evaluating and sharing opinions over a possible new build I would like to undertake in the near future.

I echo Lou's experiences.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4558575 - 03/04/21 01:18 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,623
RAF_Louvert Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
RAF_Louvert  Offline
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
Senior Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,623
L'Etoile du Nord
.



.

#4558596 - 03/04/21 03:40 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,709
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,709
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Ha Ha! Trust you Lou, to give me my morning smile!!


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4559187 - 03/09/21 04:29 PM Re: OT: AMD Zen 4 with 5nm node [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 809
kksnowbear Offline
Member
kksnowbear  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 809
I'm sorry I'm just now getting to post this; if you know me, then you know that right now I'm getting slammed with some RL concerns and a bunch of PC work (a good problem to have, but often doesn't feel like it lol). I certainly do not wish to seem ungrateful by not responding sooner, and I apologize for my delinquency.

Allow me to say how moved and indeed touched I am by the show of support for my efforts. It is something I take a great deal of pride in; I've enjoyed helping everyone who has approached me.

Blade - your comments describe my work so well that I'd like to use it as a commercial smile I am absolutely thrilled you allowed me the opportunity, and that (in spite of setbacks) we ultimately prevailed. That's actually quite typical...as you've now seen, things can go south in a hurry...but as one of my Navy supervisors told me years ago, you just have to 'outlast the problem' biggrin biggrin biggrin

I say all the time that anyone can walk into the computer parts store (or more often these days, go online), buy a bunch of parts without really understanding a lot about what they're getting into. The remarkable thing is that, most of the time, it actually works...it really can lead to a certain 'false sense of security' when things all seem to go well. But, things don't always go well, as you've seen. I do come across a lot of mistakes (big and small), and some that have caused complete system failures. As I mentioned, it's often just having experience that makes the difference. (Well, that and a couple rooms full of parts lol) . Speaks volumes that you were wise enough to seek assistance with a new build, and to remain involved the whole time...honestly you worked just as hard as I did, just absorbing all the stuff I'm constantly throwing at you.

I am especially grateful you're happy with the outcome, and I do genuinely appreciate the considerable detail you've provided concerning my shop ("lab" biggrin ) The truth is, few people realize the amount of effort and cost that go into the work I'm doing, and it's honestly nice to have that recognized. Finally, let me say it was a real pleasure having you here, and I look forward to our future projects! (Always more to do lol) I will always remember "Black is the New Bling"

Lou, I've known you longer than perhaps most anyone here...always been great talking and trading with you, and I am glad to have been of help with your upgrade as well. You have a genuine monster there, still capable of holding its own against some of the highest-end hardware out there - and on a budget too! (Be still my beating heart smile ) I love the execution of 'giant killers' such as yours...a real testimonial to a well thought-out approach to the project, and I'm delighted to see it's still kicking booty biggrin biggrin biggrin

Robert...you've been patient enough to indulge all my ramblings, and I'm grateful you're allowing time for trying to make the best choices. As we've seen in our discussions, there are a ton of choices...but if you're willing to do the legwork, hopefully you can get the features and functionality you want at a price you can live with smile I am looking forward to the day you get your build from the drawing board to the desktop, and I'm hoping to be there the entire way.

Now, if you'll all be good enough to excuse me, I have an appointment shortly with a younger gamer who wants 100+ FPS performance in modern AAA titles *and* a lot of RGB 'bling' on a very tight budget...*sigh* Time to get back to work.

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