#4556613 - 02/18/21 07:12 PM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: mandrews]
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
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Rabbit hole! Rabbit hole! Alert!!
Do we know a team with the required skills. The time to spend on it, and are willing to do it for love of the sim and not profit?
Bring them on, I say!!
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4
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#4556664 - 02/18/21 11:31 PM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: mandrews]
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
BuckeyeBob
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
Ohio, USA
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This is all unofficial, of course, and very hush, hush* but there is a guy on the subsim.com forum who was able to crack the Silent Hunter 3 executable. His internet handle is H.sie. I don't know if he would be interested in taking a "crack" at cfs3 but it would certainly open up a world of possibilities.
*Of course, reverse engineering of the cfs3 code is specifically forbidden in the EULA, so I don't recommend this as a solution, as temping as it might be.
“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
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#4557318 - 02/23/21 12:22 AM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: mandrews]
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
BuckeyeBob
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
Ohio, USA
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Admittedly, I have not closely read the cfs3 EULA, so it may be possible to reverse engineer the executable without violating the agreement.
As long as end users are not charged for the "hack" and are able to verify that they have a legally purchased copy of cfs3 and will not sell the executable to anyone else, they may not be in violation of the EULA.
“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
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#4557321 - 02/23/21 12:46 AM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: mandrews]
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
mandrews
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
South Carolina
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@BuckeyeBob, yes that's true; but I would think that the result of de-compiling something would be considered a "derivative work" and therefore couldn't be distributed (which makes it nearly useless). IANAL, so that take my opinion for what it is ... an (possibly uninformed) opinion.
I'd love to see a deal between MS and ODB along the lines of: ODB gets access to the CFS3 source code (that they keep secret) but that they could work with and distribute updated versions of cfs3.exe in exchange for providing those enhancements back to MS and a small license charge for each copy of WOFF/WOTR sold. Personally, I'd gladly pay an extra couple of bucks for each update to MS just to know ODB could keep the sims alive in the future. I suspect the payoff for MS is just too small to get them interested.
Last edited by mandrews; 02/23/21 12:47 AM.
i7-7700 @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, SSD (OS) + SSD (Games), GTX 1070 Ti, Acer Predator Z35p 3440x1440 GSync
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#4557330 - 02/23/21 01:24 AM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: mandrews]
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
BuckeyeBob
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,523
Ohio, USA
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Thanks, Polak.
Definitely a slippery slope and a tangled web (can it be both?), but the cfs code is even older than the code for SH3, and H.sie's work on it has been known for over five years, and so far nothing has happened, so the risk is probably fairly low. I doubt that Microsoft or Ubisoft would be willing to pay a bunch of lawyers to go after a relative handful of internet posters, particularly because of the bad press it would generate. Still, "ya roll the dice and take yer chances."
“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
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#4557366 - 02/23/21 10:10 AM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: Robert_Wiggins]
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 148
Dezh
Vice President Barmy OFFers Club
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Vice President Barmy OFFers Club
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 148
Hampshire, United Kingdom
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Rabbit hole! Rabbit hole! Alert!! .... INDEED! So yes, the CFS engine is long, long past its prime, but as long as it still runs I'd rather OBD, as a small team, concentrated on giving us what they've been giving us for the past two decades, i.e. well thought out, quality releases of and updates to the world's most immersive WW1 combat flight sim, ever. And anyway, consider how much CFS has been already enhanced in OBD's hands with the AI, self lighting and shadowing, scenery, maps etc. - already a huge quality uplift for trading back to MS for the source code, IMHO.
Oh that I was back in the dear old PBI. With no more Triplanes on me tail, nor tracer tracing by. And no more flames and clickerty-clack and no more blooming sky, And only a couple of feet to fall whenever I want to die.
No. 56 Squadron Song
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#4557445 - 02/23/21 06:53 PM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: Dezh]
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
VonS
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
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WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
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So yes, the CFS engine is long, long past its prime, but as long as it still runs I'd rather OBD, as a small team, concentrated on giving us what they've been giving us for the past two decades, i.e. well thought out, quality releases of and updates to the world's most immersive WW1 combat flight sim, ever.
And anyway, consider how much CFS has been already enhanced in OBD's hands with the AI, self lighting and shadowing, scenery, maps etc. - already a huge quality uplift for trading back to MS for the source code, IMHO. +1 on this. The heavily modified CFS3 code is what makes possible the crisp terrains, spritely clouds (that to me look better than volumetric ones), also the specific enhancements to the AI, campaign engine, etc. Keep in mind that an entire re-working of the sim. in another engine gives completely different terrains, clouds, AI, possibly also FMs - in other words gives a different sim. - ROFF (Rise of Flanders Fields), WOFE (Wings on First Eagles), etc. Happy flying all in WOFF,Von S
~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile ( https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
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#4557448 - 02/23/21 07:08 PM
Re: Somewhat OT: Reverse engineering a game engine
[Re: orbyxP]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,433
Hellshade
Hellshade
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Hellshade
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,433
Florida
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I’d rather see WOFF ported to a newer engine like the Unreal or unity engines to make use of features not available at the time cfs was published. In some ways, I agree. I would love if BHAH III was a multicore aware, DX12 title. But it would also be about 10 years or more while they tried to re-code everything into the new engine. Unless there's a wildly successful kickstarter that earns the devs a few hundred thousand dollars or more, they'd never be able to afford the extra hired labor to get it all done in a reasonable amount of time. I'd pay good money though just to even have the DX11 finally implemented in the same single core engine. Any word if that's still under development? I did manage to spy the DX11 option still greyed out in the BHAH II preview movie, so I guess that means they at least haven't given up yet. Which brings me to the old question....where's AnKor? There's an old thread from 2018 about a DX11 demo for CFS3 but not sure whatever happened. DX11 Demo in SOH.
Last edited by Hellshade; 02/23/21 07:14 PM.
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