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#4554961 - 02/05/21 12:40 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean

Any idiot can do that.





Oh really? Just anyone could have taken off in the plane under those conditions? You make it sound like this is the same as some dummy who puts a firecracker in his ass and lights it.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 02/05/21 01:01 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4554963 - 02/05/21 12:55 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by Wigean

Any idiot can do that.





Oh really? Just anyone could have taken off in the plane under those conditions? You make it sound like this is the same as some dummy who lights a firecracker in his ass and lights it.


This captain did not know what he was doing.
There is no FOM that can give you a runway calculation that is required for the operation on these type of a/c.
Sometimes you have to accept a fact when you read it PM.

I would rip off his stripes and assign him on a Massey Ferguson tractor far away from an airport. biggrin


“We are still in the age of legends. You and I will not enter the promised land. We who have begun always perish before Jericho falls.”
#4554965 - 02/05/21 01:03 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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I have flown a lot ( as a passenger ) in northern Labrador where there were lots of gravel strips and often very poor conditions. You get to know the pilots and what they are capable of and brave/crazy enough to do. There are a couple of guys who would take off is a twin otter in conditions like that but ONLY in case of extreme need ....like may a an urgent medivac.....but most would not go


Archie Smythe

carpe diem
#4554966 - 02/05/21 01:15 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean
This captain did not know what he was doing.


Apparently he did. And he's probably made such takeoffs numerous times. Not everything is as cut and dried as the rulebook written in a first world country states, and despite all of its technological advances in many ways, in many parts of the country, Russia is still a third world country.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4554968 - 02/05/21 01:42 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Wigean
This captain did not know what he was doing.


Apparently he did. And he's probably made such takeoffs numerous times. Not everything is as cut and dried as the rulebook written in a first world country states, and despite all of its technological advances in many ways, in many parts of the country, Russia is still a third world country.


I`m not surprised that some of you in this forum can`t take a statement as a fact.
Let`s just say that I know what I am talking about.


“We are still in the age of legends. You and I will not enter the promised land. We who have begun always perish before Jericho falls.”
#4554969 - 02/05/21 01:46 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean
Let`s just say that I know what I am talking about.


ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!


Okay then I guess that settles it. biggrin biggrin biggrin


I think I'm going to use that in future debates: "Let's just assume I know what I'm talking about, I'm right and you're wrong no need for further debate"


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4554972 - 02/05/21 02:00 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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This thread has become epic.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4554974 - 02/05/21 02:07 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Wigean
Let`s just say that I know what I am talking about.


ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!


Okay then I guess that settles it. biggrin biggrin biggrin


I think I'm going to use that in future debates: "Let's just assume I know what I'm talking about, I'm right and you're wrong no need for further debate"


Oh, I do accept your ignorance.
But I must admit that you are in danger of making yourself look stupid.

Let`s just say that my statement is based on what I have been doing in my professional life.
Working with risk management in aviation, and writng some operational manuals including take off calculations, I would say I`m on firm ground here.
What knowledge do you have to make the statements above?


“We are still in the age of legends. You and I will not enter the promised land. We who have begun always perish before Jericho falls.”
#4554976 - 02/05/21 02:32 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean


Oh, I do accept your ignorance.
But I must admit that you are in danger of making yourself look stupid.

Let`s just say that my statement is based on what I have been doing in my professional life.



Oh do tell, regale we poor stupid people with your expertise.



Mmmm.... another tactic I will need to remember: "You people are stupid and I'm an expert". Just making the statement settles the matter! So brilliant!


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4554981 - 02/05/21 02:49 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Wigean


Oh, I do accept your ignorance.
But I must admit that you are in danger of making yourself look stupid.

Let`s just say that my statement is based on what I have been doing in my professional life.



Oh do tell, regale we poor stupid people with your expertise.



Mmmm.... another tactic I will need to remember: "You people are stupid and I'm an expert". Just making the statement settles the matter! So brilliant!


So it`s a tactic to make a statement based on knowledge now?
I didn`t say that " you poor people" were stupid
I said that I am ok with you beeing ignorant.
Because you don`t know what you are talking about.
Deal with it.


“We are still in the age of legends. You and I will not enter the promised land. We who have begun always perish before Jericho falls.”
#4554989 - 02/05/21 03:35 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean


So it`s a tactic to make a statement based on knowledge now?



You've not demonstrated any knowledge, you just claim to have it and think that's sufficient. Which is hilarious.

Look, no one is saying that the video demonstrates an FAA approved, Boeing approved, Delta Airlines approved takeoff. But the FAA/Boeing/Delta isn't the be all and end all of aviation. There are situations in parts of the world that don't fit in with what the rest of the world sees as normal and approved.

The pilot, in spite of your vast knowledge, obviously knew what he was doing because he did it successfully. And such takeoffs under such conditions most certainly happen all the time in parts of the world, and occasionally they probably end in disaster. As do some takeoffs in our "more civilized" world do at times.

None of which makes the pilot stupid or unskilled as you claim.

So you can take your pompous condescension and shove it up your A$$. See below.



Last edited by oldgrognard; 02/05/21 04:12 PM.

"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4554990 - 02/05/21 03:39 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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popcorn


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4554995 - 02/05/21 03:56 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
popcorn


+1

I might get a ban, but it's worth it. What a @%(&^

And so you will. You know those kind of personal attacks are not acceptable. Think about it for two weeks.

Last edited by oldgrognard; 02/05/21 04:08 PM.

"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4555002 - 02/05/21 05:34 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Wigean


So it`s a tactic to make a statement based on knowledge now?



You've not demonstrated any knowledge, you just claim to have it and think that's sufficient. Which is hilarious.

Look, no one is saying that the video demonstrates an FAA approved, Boeing approved, Delta Airlines approved takeoff. But the FAA/Boeing/Delta isn't the be all and end all of aviation. There are situations in parts of the world that don't fit in with what the rest of the world sees as normal and approved.

The pilot, in spite of your vast knowledge, obviously knew what he was doing because he did it successfully. And such takeoffs under such conditions most certainly happen all the time in parts of the world, and occasionally they probably end in disaster. As do some takeoffs in our "more civilized" world do at times.

None of which makes the pilot stupid or unskilled as you claim.

So you can take your pompous condescension and shove it up your A$$. See below.




I`m sorry that you got a ban.

I am also sorry that I was called pompous and condescending for making a statement based on knowledge.
I don`t know if I have to demonstrate any knowledge to you, but I can tell you this:
Started to fly in 1975.Then I worked my way as a copilot, instructor, captain, training captain, chief pilot and flight operation manager.
Most hours on jets. The last on Boeing 737/4-5-6-7-800.

What background do you have on this field?

I`m now retired and enjoying it. Specially in times like this.
You might think it is hilarious that I post with referance to my knowledge, so be it.

I don`t like to be called pompous, because I`m not. I posted in this thread because I didn`t think they showed any skills at all.
It is like watching a Jackass stunt really.
I dislike to be called condescending because I have another view than you have.

I would like to say one thing though. I respect you when you are making statements here. Whether it is based on your opinion or your knowledge.
I expect the same from you.
I might write something you don`t like, but deal with it and give me a respectful answer.

Finally I will say this.

I think you owe me an apology F4UDash4.
You had no reason to attack me in the way you did..

You are a valued member on this site, and I read your post with interest. Often I disagree and often I don`t.Often I learn something new.
I`ll also be very happy if the moderators lifted the ban, even if you broke the rules.
In places like this it can be very hot. Even if you have an opinion of me it isn`t always smart to express them.


“We are still in the age of legends. You and I will not enter the promised land. We who have begun always perish before Jericho falls.”
#4555012 - 02/05/21 07:26 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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Getting back to that takeoff.

Yes, he got away with it.
We don’t know the circumstances, conditions, and prior operations that led to taking off in those conditions.
That takeoff had a lot of risk.
Doing that put a lot of stress to the gear and there would be resulting damage especially to the props. We don’t know what justified that.
The pilot showed good skill, but there really wasn’t great skill required.
Don’t confuse good stick and rudder skill with good piloting skill. A good pilot knows when not to fly.
Most of being of good pilot is the application of good decision making and knowing the proper operating procedures.
I wonder what abort criteria he was using.

We don’t know what caused the pilot to feel the need to do such a risky takeoff and accept damage to the airplane.

It would interesting to know who approved operating under those conditions and why.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4555013 - 02/05/21 07:33 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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The dust scared the crap outta me. Imagine all that stuff getting into those moving parts and jamming something up in the right spot...

#4555020 - 02/05/21 08:14 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Wigean]  
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Originally Posted by Wigean



Started to fly in 1975.Then I worked my way as a copilot, instructor, captain, training captain, chief pilot and flight operation manager.
Most hours on jets. The last on Boeing 737/4-5-6-7-800.



I can't say that I ever knew you were an airline pilot, even going back to our days moderating over at Frug's. So it's plain you wished not to highlight your credentials, which is admirable, I must say. Did we know at Frugs you were a pilot? Were you and BBall swapping tales and I missed it, or had forgotten after all this time?

I'll also say that if I were a professional pilot I'd probably draw the same conclusions about this video. When it's your profession, and if you are professional, it's probably painful to see something like this video. It's a great watch, but cringeworthy I reckon for someone who does this for a living.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4555023 - 02/05/21 08:47 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
Getting back to that takeoff.

Yes, he got away with it.
We don’t know the circumstances, conditions, and prior operations that led to taking off in those conditions.
That takeoff had a lot of risk.
Doing that put a lot of stress to the gear and there would be resulting damage especially to the props. We don’t know what justified that.
The pilot showed good skill, but there really wasn’t great skill required.
Don’t confuse good stick and rudder skill with good piloting skill. A good pilot knows when not to fly.
Most of being of good pilot is the application of good decision making and knowing the proper operating procedures.
I wonder what abort criteria he was using.

We don’t know what caused the pilot to feel the need to do such a risky takeoff and accept damage to the airplane.

It would interesting to know who approved operating under those conditions and why.


Bro, it's Russia, a couple of engine fires probably wouldn't be enough reason to cancel the takeoff.

#4555024 - 02/05/21 08:53 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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Can we dispense with the “Bro” ?


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4555027 - 02/05/21 09:03 PM Re: In this case, flying’s not for me [Re: Fungezap]  
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The thing is, even in Russia, with that kind of contamination on what I am hard pressed to even call a runway, you are a test pilot the moment you set the power with the intention to take off, because no performance calculations exist for that sort of conditions. Knowing that you don’t know for certain if you will be able to take off at all, and still going for it, that’s the stupid part of it all. You can be a skilled stick and rudder pilot, but in that situation you are still leaving your immediate future in the hands of Fate, and that’s simply not how one goes about committing an act of aviation.

Quite a few flying clips make it to the papers, especially hairy crosswind landings. Düsseldorf and Manchester seem to be repeat offenders in the papers here in Europe. The worst landings always get the most «WOW what an insanely skilled pilot» type of comments, which just goes to show that spectacular and dramatic isn’t really a good thing in commercial aviation.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
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