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#4555001 - 02/05/21 05:32 PM Would you like better cockpits?  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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Been digging through the archives, found this possibility.

Old Mossie:

[Linked Image]

vs New Mossie:

[Linked Image]

What do you think?


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4555005 - 02/05/21 06:07 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Knegel Offline
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Thats very impressive!!

So many old cockpits are somehow messed up or has bad graphics from the start, with often not readable instruments or bad placed pointers.

Ok, so you are not allowed anymore to make holliday, to go to work, to take care for the family and to eat, until all cockpits are on the above stage. cheers

Beer is allowed!!


If you think `thats close enough´, go closer, until the plane fill up the windscreen, then a short burst is enough!
#4555006 - 02/05/21 06:22 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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MrJelly Offline
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Excellent smile


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4555009 - 02/05/21 06:44 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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Thanks guys, thought you would enjoy it!

Ralf, I am recuperating from rotator cuff surgery on the left arm, and doing the right arm in about 2 months, so I have a TON of available time. Unfortunately, the beer would interfere with my Hydrocodone!

So we shall see what can be done. The above represents where I was some years ago when the bickering was just too much. Since that's settled, I feel a fresh enthusiasm! Preliminary tests are promising, but it may require turning all the needles in to sprites, a tedious job, but thankfully once a needle is done it can be used for any similar gauge for any slot. Jel, might require your tool making abilities!


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4555015 - 02/05/21 07:53 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Moggy Offline
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A slit trench at RAF Gravesend
Believe it or not, I first made that Mossie cockpit in 2002. It was later improved by Claudio Wilches. It could certainly do with a proper sorting out!.

#4555019 - 02/05/21 08:07 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Knegel Offline
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What a luck we have, that you are an old damaged bugger who must recover. wounded winkngrin

Unlike to me, iam a 20 Years old Adonis by now, even my Sons are older. Iam here cause i have so much energy, i even dont need sleep. blahblahblah screwy


If you think `thats close enough´, go closer, until the plane fill up the windscreen, then a short burst is enough!
#4555076 - 02/06/21 05:24 AM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Knegel]  
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iron mike Offline
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Ooooooh!

Yes please.... yep
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

Last edited by iron mike; 02/06/21 05:27 AM.
#4555092 - 02/06/21 10:24 AM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Jack, looks like a winner. Hopefully you are laid up for about 10 years 'cuz there are A LOT of cockpits out there.

One of the things I did to make the gauges more readable was to move them closer to the player using 3dz Studio. I did have to delete some of the non-functional elements that displayed lights and switches but you don't even notice it.

Anther thing I did was add animated lights and switches that were action coded to the flaps, engine on/off and landing gear.

Take a look at some of the 1.6 aircraft_inventory planes to see what I mean.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4555107 - 02/06/21 04:00 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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LOL, actually Ray, I DID notice that, but I'm really familiar with the cockpits. It did have the desired effect, though.

A lot of the cockpits in the original default aircraft - particularly in the German ones - used the switches and stuff - look at a default 109, the magneto switch moves, the landing gear light goes red when they come down, others have a single red light for that. There are a few other sprites that are available for use as well that didn't get implemented, if i recall correctly.

Anyway, I'm going to finish up this Mossie, then go through the default cockpits. I have most of the German gauges made, and many of the Brits as well.

Cheers,

CJ


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4555113 - 02/06/21 05:31 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Let me start by saying I know close to nothing about the sprites.

I did notice that some of the default cockpits have animations, it's just that some of them are pretty poor. For example the indicator on the P-47's that includes both the flaps and landing gear position is almost unreadable, well at least for 69 year old eyes.

Also, one of the compass sprites is pretty blurry.

The thing is, I don't know how to make improvements other than to move them closer to the player. That said, in some cases I used these sprites and I did manage to improve things by about 30%.

In other cases I just built new indicators using my knowledge of 3dz editing. I added dull white "off" panel bulbs and bright red "on" panel bulbs to the X.tpc and then mapped an element on the Z.tpc that only exhibited that small spot on the X.tpc. By making piggyback elements with on and off action codes I was able to have lights on the panel flash on and off.

My most complicated use of this was on the Beaufighter panel ( since used in a number of other planes) where there are four lights for the various positions of the flaps. It's complicated because there needs to be an off and on light for each position otherwise the graphic would disappear when a different position is selected.

In other cases I made flip switches or rotational handles to display the position of landing gear and flaps.

And all the time you weren't far from my thoughts, hoping you'd return and do something I couldn't do.

And here you are. Thank God for aging bodies, is all I have to say.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4555115 - 02/06/21 06:14 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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Ray, can't tell you how pleased I was to see someone doing something with the cockpits, so no worries, you did a great job in making the view much better!

Unfortunately for me, I have quite a bit of knowledge about sprites. To get them to rotate is quite tedious, but easily done. The trick is getting the sizing right, they are created as raw files with no headers, then converted and if your settings are wrong, it's time for another cocktail cause you're gonna be here awhile!

Anyway, here is test number two, using a default P109Ex.tpc/bmp combo.

[Linked Image]

My plan is to do the default cockpits first. It will be a chore to then figure out which cockpit should go where, because people seemed to have mixed and matched over the years, using files for any of the three 109s for example, as the pick shows the blue around the gauges but the modded aircraft has the gray.

But that's the fun part, right??


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4555130 - 02/06/21 08:16 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Question.

Have you converted from the 30 slot naming convention to the 1.6 naming convention?

If not, get hold of MogProg which, though originally used to switch slot names in the old system, can be easily edited to work for the 1.6 system. I have the edited version if you need it.

If you have converted, you probably should take a look at at the cockpits in the latest 1.6 Aircraft_Inventory folder because I made some other changes.

One that comes to mind is the off center cockpit of the 109E that you've displayed. Someone before me moved the whole cockpit to the left and then shifted the gunsight back to the right to simulate the off center gunsight on the actual plane. That was good but they didn't move the internal prop elements on the Y.3dz.

I can understand why if they weren't 3dz mavens because you need to move the center point of those elements in the "parts" section of the 3dz. or the prop wobbles. It's a trial and error thing and it can take some time to get correct.

I fixed it though so the 1.6 version is correct.

You'll also see some of the animation mods I made on a number of the default planes. Just to get the juices follwing, as it were.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4555142 - 02/06/21 09:26 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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I've spent a lot of time looking through it, though I find the current system quite confusing. To be honest I'm not even sure if I have the newest version. However, for what I am doing right now it's easier to use the old system. I first need to develop the original cockpits, because they are by the far the most common. But also, I need to then manipulate the appropriate vcg and cpt file locations to map out the needles and sprites. They are in the 256x256 range, they now need to be in the 512 x512 range. I could in theory simply double the hex numbers, I'm sure jel could make a tool, but I am also moving all non gauge items off the x 3dz, and I am working on having the cockpit lights only work on the x 3dz so the gauges light properly. Ya know, just easy stuff, lol! We can convert the stuff later.


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4555173 - 02/07/21 03:33 AM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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I just did a quick test with a 1024x1024 bmp/tpc combo. It worked - for about 5 seconds. Which means it will display, but there is a buffer or some such taking a dive. I couldn't get a screen shot to work. But, intriguing nonetheless!


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4555190 - 02/07/21 10:52 AM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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When you first switch over from the 1.2* file format to the 1.6 format it seems confusing but then you have an "ah, ha!" moment and you realize what a big improvement it is.

Especially for modding.

Basically you have to wrap your head around the fact that 1.2* is a file name based system and 1.6 is a folder name system.

BTW, the MogProg program works both ways for TPC and 3dz files. The only manual name changes you need to make are the .CPT and VCG*.dat file.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4558677 - 03/05/21 06:05 AM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Here's an update on the first hi resolution cockpit for EAW!

I was having problems getting sprites to work, but I have them showing up now, and in the correct size. I have also made two completely new sprites, for the landing gear and the P10 compass. They look really awesome in the Cockpit Editor, as well as Photoshop, but there is an issue with the palettes. Still trying to sort that out if any of the old hands have ideas on the palettes the sprites use now that the cockpit is a bmp?

Also, you will note that the clock (which is on a compass face, I know, it will be moves) has orange needles. I can change to other colors as well, any comments on that? Nearly all WWII gauges used a paint similar to glow in the dark white, but I like the visibility. It can be mixed up, as well. The oil pressure gauges (the vertical yellow ones) look pretty cool in orange.
[Linked Image]

The landing gear indicator lights showed up a nice bright red until I raised them, now they won't come back. They should be a bright green now. Getting there!

Cheers,

CJ


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4558691 - 03/05/21 12:20 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Looks good. I'm presently adding the Mosquito to the Russian Air Force and this would make a great addition.

Originally Posted by Crashin' Jack
Also, you will note that the clock (which is on a compass face, I know, it will be moves) has orange needles. I can change to other colors as well, any comments on that? Nearly all WWII gauges used a paint similar to glow in the dark white, but I like the visibility. It can be mixed up, as well.CJ


Just one man's opinion but when in doubt I lean toward playability and away from historical accuracy.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4558713 - 03/05/21 02:35 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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I still have some work to do in resizing the faces, adjust placement, etc. Then fill the non gauge areas. The interesting thing I found is that the vertical gauge lines for the oil pressure can be as thick as I want. They are drawn like a line, but use the bytes for sprites for placement. If I could get that to happen for all the lines it would be no question. For orange needles, it's easy enough to change in the P****VIEW.CPT file, could provide an optional version too. Overall pretty happy, took a LOOOOONG time for me to find the key combo of lines to mod to get the correct size needles.

Cheers,

CJ


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4558914 - 03/07/21 06:19 AM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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It's getting there! Almost ready for more cabin detail.

[Linked Image]


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4558973 - 03/07/21 08:40 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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Needed a change of pace today, so i thought I would try something different. I took the original cockpit tpc, created by Moggy, I think, resized it to 512x512 pixels (standard is 256 x 256), and repainted the canopy frame rails. I added some screw detail, and came up with this:

[Linked Image]

Must admit, I'm pretty happy !

Here is a closeup from the same image, notice the fine detail on the screw head, also the much better variation in color. you can see a nearby frame rail still using a piece of the original rail.

[Linked Image]

Yep, I'm liking where this is going!

Comments are welcome! I see this thread has a thousand or so views, and only a couple comments, so don't be afraid to comment, good or bad!

If you are intrigued by this whole idea of modding, it's pretty easy, there are a ton of tools, and we could use new blood - or bring back some of the old - just let me know, we'll get you up and running!

Cheers,

CJ


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4559066 - 03/08/21 04:14 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Moggy Offline
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A slit trench at RAF Gravesend
Excellent work CJ. Good to see someone improving my elderly bodge jobs!

#4559085 - 03/08/21 05:29 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Crashin' Jack Offline
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No problem, Moggy! You had an excellent start, especially using only one tpc!

Now that I have an exe that will let me use enlarged gauge needles and sprites, I wanted to see what we can do with the 512x512 bmp images for the cockpits, and I was pretty amazed! If there are any 3dz modders/painters left, there is work to be done!

It's going to take a ton of work to redo all the sprites for better detail - I have found there are actually a bunch of sprites in the P****VIEW.CPT files that were never even implemented, like an ammo switch sprite in the P-38 H. Since the 2D images in the CPT files are no longer used, I am contemplating massing all the sprites into a single CPT file resource, which the cockpit editor can then be used to pick and choose which sprites to use. We could then have things like gear and flap indicators, ammo switches and counters, ignition, lo fuel lights, homing devices for the home base, brake indicator lights, and so on for any aircraft. I've made files for up to 75 gauges in a single airplane - bombers require quite a few - and the code to use THAT feature has been in since 1.28d or so. By the way, did you know there was a radar sprite for the P-51D? Or that there had been plans to create a flyable Lancaster in the original EAW?

Yep, glad to back.

Cheers,

CJ


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4559163 - 03/09/21 12:33 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Moggy Offline
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A slit trench at RAF Gravesend
Sounds really intriguing. Good luck with it.

I did not know about the original flyable Lancaster. I did however have a go at a flyable Lancaster cockpit.

#4559164 - 03/09/21 12:53 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Jack, this is turning out to be a great leap forward, thank you. I'm looking forward to getting involved in your project because it's about time we brought the cockpits up to the level of the latest hi-res aircraft.


Couple of things.

1 - In the hierarchy of things to do I'd suggest putting 4 engine bombers fairly low on the list. Since EAW doesn't have the ability to use gunner positions, sitting in the pilots seat of a bomber waiting to get your a** shot off has very little playability .............Excepting the Lanc, since there's a dambuster version in the inventory and the ETO2015 target set includes a bunch of dams in the Rhur Valley, there is some playability there.

2 - I'm working on a Soviet TIS-MA ground attack aircraft with an adaptation of some of Iron Mike's BMP textures from another plane. It's the first time I've done this and what's become a real PITA is that 3dz Studio doesn't display BMP's. All you see is a blank white canvas which make it impossible to line up panel seams and the like on the 3dz files. I've gotten around the limitation by having a separate folder using PCX's and then transferring the 3dz files to the folder with BMP's. Clunky but it works. What we would need to go "all BMP" is a version of 3dz Studio that handles BMP's. OTOH, maybe you have another process.




Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4559185 - 03/09/21 04:15 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Moggy, the original cockpit editor built in to the game had provisions to create cockpits for the Lanc, B-17, B-24, B-26, Me-410, Ju-88a4, Ju-88C, He-111, and the V1 (Reichenberg anyone?) These account for the missing P***VIEW.CPT files, with the German bombers added on to the end. Not sure where they were heading with all that, but you can create the cpt files sans the 2D cockpit views (unless you want to make them - the Mosquito file has them biggrin ). I made the empty ones last night, to include the dayfade, night and lamp palettes for these craft so they can be used should the need arise. The gauge sprites use these palettes.

Ray, bombers are indeed fairly low on the list, I had considered playing around with the B-24, but the cockpit is surprisingly accurate. The main panel uses dual engine gauges, with 2 sets of needles on each gauge. This could be achieved easily by changing the color of one set. But as far as the cockpits go, I think just going down the standard list of defaults is the way to go. I started with the Mosquito because I already had some work done from years ago on the bmps in 512x512. Plus, who doesn't love a Mossie!

My standard method for working with 3dz files is to create a new folder with the 3dz editor, picpac and tpctopcx in it. I leave one just like that, as a template, then copy to a work folder named for the plane into which I throw all tpc and 3dz files, as well as bmps if they exist. Convert the tpcs to pcx, use Paint Shop Pro to enlarge to 512x512 pcx, save them as a bmp and go from there. I do all the work in one folder, and even archive it as such when done, so everything is handy when doing something new. When done just copy out what you need. I guess that's pretty much what you are doing, but the basic template I've had for years and works well. If you want to talk clunky, the tpc2pcx prog doesn't work on my computer in the basement, I have to go to my studio on the 2nd floor to convert it in my ancient machine, using a thumb drive to move it. But it's ok, because the coffee machine is on the way, LOL!


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4559224 - 03/09/21 08:10 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Well, two flights of stairs will help burn off the beer. Not that you're drinking more beer while on convalescence or anything. biggrin

As to the pc2pcx prog. Do you have the DOS or the Windows version? I use the Windows version on my Vista machine and it works fine.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4559236 - 03/09/21 10:05 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Bourbon while convalescing, thank you very much! Got some of the Kentucky medicine under the sink!

I have been using the dos version, yes. I just gave TPC2PCX GUI version a shot, it crashes when i use the gui, but it does write half the bath file for you. Then I correct the second half of the bat, and it works.

Ok, the file i was using was a 512x512 tpc, and the resulting image is greatly flawed. Tried again with a 256x256, it did the same error, but created a file with a cip extension. That was actually the right file. Added the line I needed and got the correct pcx.

I also have a set of pre made batch files, one for each slot so I can do a dump of any using that, bypassing the gui. This works fine. Thanks, I wasn't aware this was a windows version! Now I just need to run up one flight for the bourbon stop !

Cheers!


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4559268 - 03/10/21 12:24 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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"also have a set of pre made batch files, one for each slot so I can do a dump of any using that, bypassing the gui."

Ahem........................You wouldn't need them if you were working in 1.6. duel exitstageleft

OT - Wifey and I have one more cross country trip in mind and it includes a Bourbon Trail tour through Kentucky. She's a bourbon aficionado........................................which explains her saying "yes" to me. biggrin


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4559309 - 03/10/21 04:20 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Crashin' Jack Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Crashin' Jack  Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Illinois, USA
Most aircraft use the default set of cockpit files, which is what I am working with at the moment. The cockpit editor is based on 1.2x, built in debug mode, so I need to use the default names. Plus, my file system for skin storage, set up long before even OAW was around, is easier for me to find a particular aircraft skin when I want it. I use a working folder template, that has all my standard tools in it, so all my gizmos are handy. When it comes time to do mass conversions of files, 160 will make that much easier, but for me it's easier to use my established procedures, mostly due to habit I suppose.

My wife's father's family is from deep in the Kentucky hills. I currently have a mason jar of Apple Pie bourbon "under the sink" that was distilled during Clinton's first term, and sat in a barrel for twenty years before put in the mason jar with apple extract and cinnamon stick in 2015. If there is a fire at night, I'm getting that out before I rescue my wife!!!


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

#4559335 - 03/10/21 06:13 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Rotton50 Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Rotton50  Offline
3DZ / campaign designer
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Cape Charles, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Crashin' Jack
The cockpit editor is based on 1.2x, built in debug mode, so I need to use the default names.


Well, ya coulda said that about a week ago and I woulda stopped nagging you!!!!!!!!!!!! bananadance biggrin

I'll let you know when we set up the trip, maybe we could do a face to face...........................after about three stops on the tour I think we'll BOTH look better.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4559346 - 03/10/21 06:39 PM Re: Would you like better cockpits? [Re: Crashin' Jack]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Crashin' Jack Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Crashin' Jack  Offline
Cockpit Connoisseur
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,133
Illinois, USA
cheers


"Blasts from clustered R4M quartets in my snout
And see these English planes go burn...." Blue Oyster Cult

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