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#4554330 - 01/31/21 08:32 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Hi, I'm new to this forum - thanks for letting me participate - and the same in Woff, but I have experience in almost all flight simulators. They all have regular updates and you don't have to pay for them. It does not seem correct to me that you have to pay for each Woff update.
I can't help but compare it to rise of flight. Rof is much better simulator. Everything that has to be modeled on a WWI plane is. Seriously, it was only possible to model the radiator of the Albatros V in Woff? Another thing wrong with Woff is that the guns keep firing with the propellers stopped. Can't they simulate this correctly?
I hope my ideas are not misunderstood.
regards

#4554334 - 01/31/21 09:09 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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It's rather off topic Andres, and I may move this to its own thread .. but if you look at the 100's of regular free updates, new features (even we added a free Fokker DVI) we have done with each release over time. Many more and faster than most software developers then that's harsh to complain about this particular favourite feature whatever. Yes we need to eat. We work full time on this and WW1 is a small area so if we spend a year working most days and evening making something for you to enjoy, we need money to continue. I'd love to be rich and do it for free, but unfortunately not. We are very far from rich from this in any way believe me.

We can do more but as always it takes time. 2 people making the sim, 80+ flyable aircraft, including the BEST campaign engine in any WW1 sim, the best AI in any WW1 sim takes time and work and dedication. We have added many things, including moving gun levers, different rates of fire and more but yes there is always more to do.

Even WOFF UE alone nearly 100 items updated, added or fixed in around TWENTY THREE free updates :
http://www.overflandersfields.com/downloads-woffue.html
scroll down to read the history of changes list

WOFF PE
http://www.overflandersfields.com/downloads-woffpe.html
62 free improvements and fixes since release.

It was the same or more for any other release we ever did.

Maybe if you take some time and play the campaign you may appreciate the 100s of things that are NOT in other WW1 sims.
Every single game on the planet you can criticize - why isn't the whole world war in this sim? Because you have to actually make every single tiny part and sims take a long time to do that.

Hey what about my <insert favourite item/feature/aircraft> is very common.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554335 - 01/31/21 09:17 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Hi, I'm new to this forum - thanks for letting me participate - and the same in Woff, but I have experience in almost all flight simulators. They all have regular updates and you don't have to pay for them. It does not seem correct to me that you have to pay for each Woff update.


First, I'm not at all associated with OBD and don't know any of them or the mod-ers except through this forum. I would say that all the flight sims have a economic model, they are just different. The newest version of IL2 Flying Circus II has been announced and they are taking pre-orders (buy it now, get it later). RoF relied on people buying in game content. WOFF relies on people buying major upgrades (fixes are free). This isn't any different than many other games/programs. Whether this is "correct" or not depends on your point of view. For me, it's a lot of work and the folks at OBD deserve to eat.

Originally Posted by Asam71
I can't help but compare it to rise of flight ... <snip> ... I hope my ideas are not misunderstood.


I'll just say that no program is perfect, and this isn't the thread to have a "my sim is better than your sim" discussion. Fly what you enjoy. Life's too short to do otherwise.


i7-7700 @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, SSD (OS) + SSD (Games), GTX 1070 Ti, Acer Predator Z35p 3440x1440 GSync
#4554344 - 01/31/21 11:47 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
They all have regular updates and you don't have to pay for them. ... Rof is much better simulator.


Regular updates in WOFF/WOTR are also free (see vers. 4,15, 4.18, 4.2.x, etc. of WOFF, also vers. 1.19 and 1.21 of WOTR - the former brought in the Fokk. D.VI among other improvements, the latter brought in the Spitfire Mk.I and other fixes, etc.). I don't know of any WW1 flight sim. where big upgrade packs/improvements are free - with the possible exception of FE2 where the modders have brought more to the table than FE2 stock ever offered - but FE2 is a strange exception to the rule, the flight sim. equivalent of a Linux-distro for those of us who enjoy "build it yourself simulator" variants.

As far as complete and polished packages go - WOFF is the best there is - and is reasonably priced considering that it is a full, DRM-free download. There are also excellent addons/mods for WOFF too - all those are free as well - which is one of the other nice things about WOFF - it fits well both with modders and those who want to install a complete flight sim. and not worry about addons.

ROF is largely empty in stock form and requires that aircraft be bought individually if you want more than the standard three types offered - in terms of the FMs ... there are so many opinions on that that I best not go there thoroughly. Suffice it to say, in my humble opinion, that the FMs in ROF are not a universal gold standard but a valid approach, using a different flight/physics model, to WW1 aircraft simulation (see debates on "data tables" versus dynamic flight models, and so on, if interested in such topics).

Happy flying,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 02/26/21 08:19 PM. Reason: Edited post.

// See WOFF on a Mac post for links to FM Tweaks Packages and GPU Tuner Patch for WOFF PE/UE. (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4554351 - 02/01/21 02:14 AM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Hi.
Of course I have not commented on everything good about this sim and that is why I bought it. Of course the AI ​​is much better and the general look of the scenes I love. But I still think that there are basic things that should be modeled - the manipulation of the radiator is essential to achieve optimal speed and a good engine operation - the weapons of those aircraft jammed and the pilot could make them fire again, the drum of Lewis machine guns wears out and you have to reload, etc ... I think there is nothing wrong with imitating what is well done in other simulators, look how well the effect of rain on the glasses is achieved and how it is simulated that the player has been injured.
Rof no longer has development so I think that Woff can be the best simulator of all time if he takes what was well done in Rof.
To finish he clarified that I have never doubted that the developers deserve their salary, count on me to buy the new update.
Greetings.

#4554380 - 02/01/21 11:15 AM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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He did not want to open a debate, he simply wanted to make a constructive criticism. Woff is a great game but if you want to be a great simulator you should have all the systems modeled and in a WWI plane there are few - power, mix, radiator
And weapons. Woff doesn't have them fully modeled, hence my complaint. If it succeeds, it will undoubtedly be the best WWI simulator.
Greetings.

#4554387 - 02/01/21 12:00 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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On the WWI aviation front I have RoF, (all content produced), I have FC1, (and 2 preordered).
And then there is OFF/WoFF... (I have all content produced). I have to say, if I want to absolutely immerse myself in a believable WWI experience, it's WoFF every time.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the other products because I do... each have their good and not so good points, but it's WoFF that is always top of that list.
With the new version due out this year (hopefully), it's likely to stay there smile

#4554388 - 02/01/21 12:10 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
On the WWI aviation front I have RoF, (all content produced), I have FC1, (and 2 preordered).
And then there is OFF/WoFF... (I have all content produced). I have to say, if I want to absolutely immerse myself in a believable WWI experience, it's WoFF every time.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the other products because I do... each have their good and not so good points, but it's WoFF that is always top of that list.
With the new version due out this year (hopefully), it's likely to stay there smile


+1

For me WOFFs huge plane set and dynamic campaign can't be matched. No sim is perfect but WOFF is continually improving with paid expansions and new stand alone versions but also with hundreds of free updates. Other WWI sims are cool too (I own them all) but for me WOFF has that something special that draws me in every time. The preview movie (back on topic) gives me plenty of reasons to believe WOFF is going to remain my go to WWI sim for a very long time to come. Thanks for the movie Pol!

Last edited by Hellshade; 02/01/21 12:13 PM.

Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4554401 - 02/01/21 01:58 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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The latest movie makes the upcoming WOFF release look very good indeed, the raindrops on the goggles and the more animated pilot look great.

We're all waiting for the day when it comes out with great anticipation.

As for the discussion between ROF and WOFF......I own Rise of Flight and all of the aircraft and it looks fantastic and the game can be good fun, especially when using Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator, but looks can be deceptive. Scratch under the surface and there were many major issues. The most glaring of which was the lack of two seater aircraft. How can you have a realistic WW1 flight sim without the BE2 or Caudron in it? Which means everyone, English, French, Belgian and even Russian pilots are flying around in FE2b's up until 1917. Which made missions very samey indeed.

I don't own FC but that seems to be going along the same lines as ROF, it looks superb, but the aircraft on offer are more to do with what will sell well rather than what will make the game more historically accurate.

WOFF is ALL about historical accuracy, be it aircraft, specifications, squadrons, pilots, medals, and we have a living breathing community on here who will no doubt keep it so. That's what makes all the difference for me. I don't want an arcade shoot 'em up with wings flying everywhere, nor do I want to have to shoot down the 125th FE2b of my career.

I want to fly these incredible aircraft and try to get the better of the enemy aircraft and get a tiny inckling of what it might have been like to have had to do it for real over 100 years ago. To try and fly through the war for as long as possible.

For this, there isn't even a debate, WOFF is miles ahead of any other WW1 flight sim.



"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554409 - 02/01/21 02:40 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Hi. It would certainly be if it simulated all the systems on a WWI plane. For me it is a great game, but until they are well simulated, the radiators, mixture, firing rate and engine failures due to overheating or exceeding RPM cannot be called a simulator. A lot of interest is being put into improving it aesthetically - yes that is very good - but it would be better to spend energy making it a real simulator.
Greetings.

#4554410 - 02/01/21 02:45 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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I completely agree with AlbertTross. Spot on.

Simulation wise, regarding engine management specially, there are many things that can be improved, that´s a fact. OP is correct there. Anyone who has flown both can quickly notice there is a lot more investment/money in some simulation aspects of RoF. OBD heavily focused on immersion, historical authenticity, unparalallel AI and many aspects that make WOFF the best WW1 experience out there, but with a 2 man team, having the best of the best in all aspects is, maybe, impossible. Specially if we intend them to release updates for...free. (Maybe they should go for a Kickstarter campaign?)

But WOFF has something that any other WW1 product hasn´t achieved. When you have killed your 200th Albatros, Camel, whatever due to flying stupid Ai, in a scripted mission from a DLC. When you feel almost invulnerable because everything surrounding you is plain stupid, the implemnetation of a radiator setting or your engine management simulation becomes gimmicky. And the Multiplayer is no doubt fun, but it´s a Shoot em Up with canvas crafts that I don´t enjoy.

Last edited by ArisFuser; 02/01/21 03:04 PM.
#4554419 - 02/01/21 03:27 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Hi. It would certainly be if it simulated all the systems on a WWI plane. For me it is a great game, but until they are well simulated, the radiators, mixture, firing rate and engine failures due to overheating or exceeding RPM cannot be called a simulator. A lot of interest is being put into improving it aesthetically - yes that is very good - but it would be better to spend energy making it a real simulator.
Greetings.


Hi,

This really isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I do need to correct you on a couple of points there as they are highly inaccurate and would give any reader complete misinformation.

1) Engine Failures - WOFF does have sporadic engine failures, unlike any other simulator out there and totally historically accurate, as aircraft would often drop out of patrols due to random engine failures.

2) Firing rates - The firing rates in WOFF are far more accurate than the standard rates found in Rise of Flight which could only be slowed by the aid of a MOD.

As for WOFF not being a real flight simulator, we're all entitled to our opinions of course. WOFF gives me the things I need out of a WW1 flight sim more than ROF ever did. WOFF needs a few things tweaking, but not a total rethink which ROF did. But if you're not enjoying it then by all means you stick with Rise of Flight even though it's a completely dead duck now of course. Whereas WOFF isn't, it's still very much alive thanks to the hardworking developers and the fantastic MOD creators we have on here.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554444 - 02/01/21 04:56 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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I guess my main issue is the engine underneath. CFS3 just isn't optimized well for modern computers - and I wish (though this won't be popular, I fear (sorry)) that perhaps they didn't do WOTR and the last expansion and were perhaps at a stage now where they were releasing the beginnings of a new series on a brand new engine (if that was indeed possible(?)).

That being said, I very much love the sim and will (though low on $ with pandemic) purchase the new expansion and look forward to the offerings for sure - it is truly amazing what they have been able to squeeze out of it. Truly amazing dynamic campaign and AI that can't be beat anywhere! Fabulous stuff!


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#4554445 - 02/01/21 04:56 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????

#4554451 - 02/01/21 05:13 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????


Someone with more historical knowledge is free to correct me, but if the prop isn't in front of the gun or if it's a gun mounted on the top wing firing over the prop, it might. I've had my engine quit and the gun wouldn't fire and I've had other times that it did, so it's possible those (or other) factors may play into it.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4554465 - 02/01/21 06:08 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????


If it annoys you so much just stop pulling the bloody trigger when the engine's stopped.....then it won't will it.

But seeing as you seem hellbent on having a perfectly good thread about the upcoming new WOFF game ruined....I'm going to stop there.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554472 - 02/01/21 07:02 PM Nothing to do with Movie thread  
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As I said I would, I moved all off topic chat about what is or is not in WOFF (and other sims) to its own thread.

Last edited by Polovski; 02/01/21 07:12 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554491 - 02/01/21 08:56 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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I'd just lock it mate... I think it's run it's course.

#4554493 - 02/01/21 09:05 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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That may well be next thanks Trooper.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554504 - 02/01/21 09:42 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????


I don't know the answer for sure, but assuming that the synchronizer mechanism simply stops the gun from firing when the prop is in front of the gun, then yes it would be real.

#4554511 - 02/01/21 10:15 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: 77_Scout]  
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Originally Posted by 77_Scout
I don't know the answer for sure, but assuming that the synchronizer mechanism simply stops the gun from firing when the prop is in front of the gun, then yes it would be real.


This is essentially correct. Also, as per Hellshade's last post above - it all really depends in what position the prop is when the engine stops - in other words, is the interruptor gear in the fully interrupt or disengaged position - this, for the most part, determines if you can keep shooting, or not, with a dead engine (and is applicable to early, "mechanized" interruptor gears such as on Fokk. Eindeckers). Later synchronized/pneumatic "synchronization" setups, such as the Constantinesco on the Se5/5a, as far as I know, only "engage" once it is safe to shoot (gap between blades) - so perhaps those would not work with a dead engine (since the Constantinesco is essentially a hydraulic system). In terms of mid-war setups, such as the Alkan-Hamy variant on Entente rotary fighters, also the Birkigt system on the Spad VII - I can't say much since I'm no specialist in that area - but different "push-rod" arrangements were used on the Alkan and Birkigt setups than on the earlier Fokker interruptor gear - which, again, may or may not have created different possibilities as to M.G. operation with a dead engine. At any rate, I think the variety is well done in WOFF and we shouldn't lose sleep over the topic - and remember not to fire the M.G., even if you can, if the prop. blade is right in front of you. biggrin

Von S


// See WOFF on a Mac post for links to FM Tweaks Packages and GPU Tuner Patch for WOFF PE/UE. (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4554517 - 02/01/21 11:02 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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I own some version of RoF. I actually had to think about it for a minute to remember that I did own it as I haven't installed it in years and never really played it. I strongly disliked having to buy a whole bunch of planes to fly the war and the practical effect of this is that there was never really a campaign as that couldn't be monetized with the model they set up. Consequently the game was never very compelling to me. I have no animus towards them and would have loved to have another great WWI sim to play, but it just didn't work out that way for me. WOFF takes the better approach for my time and money.


*edit: where's the #%&*$# movie???

Last edited by Rick_Rawlings; 02/01/21 11:03 PM.

The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4554523 - 02/01/21 11:35 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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You’re comparing apples to oranges. Simulators is a broad concept. I think of it this way. WOFF is not trying to be the next DCS. Instead, WOFF simulates a historical campaign. Think of an improved version of RB3D.

WOFF: The ultimate aerial WW1 historical campaign generator... Not WOFF: The accurate WW1 Flight Simulator.

If you want a Microsoft Filght Simulator of WW1 aircraft, then First Eagles (with mods) is the closest to the real flight characteristics you’re going to get, not RoF or FC. RoF and FC is a multiplayer sim for instant action...

You’ll need to have a certain mindset when playing WOFF. Not expecting accurate engine management, not expecting highly accurate weather systems, etc... but rather how is the best way to complete each mission and make it back alive with your wingmen (who can improve over time btw). Play the game without expecting it to be the next MSFS 2021. ... you’ll enjoy it much more and stay up late nights just to finish one last mission so that you can earn just ONE more promotion or medal or .... maybe your 200 hour pilot will get unlucky and catch a random engine fire at 3,000 ft then you pray you can land and stay alive...


#4554576 - 02/02/21 03:52 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Hi.
Clarified the matter. Perhaps I have expressed myself wrong. I like Woff - the menu, the soundtrack, the landscape, the mission and campaign generation and the AI ​​that IS NOT Silly - the only thing I miss is a little more control over everything that makes a plane work correctly WWI plane. I also didn't want to criticize the work of the developers, just express my wish on what I would like Woff to have. Oh and of course I will buy the new expansion.
You mention first eagles 2 with mods. I don't know it- only from wikipedia- where can I get the game, patches and mods ??? Thank you.
regards

Last edited by Asam71; 02/02/21 03:54 PM.
#4554579 - 02/02/21 03:58 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71
There is a thread called The Wish List where all member identify things they would like to see in WOFF. That would be an ideal place for your wishes. I know the devs look through the thread on occasion as a means of considering our wishes.

Thanks for your clarification.

Best Regards


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#4554639 - 02/02/21 08:59 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71 Offline
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Thanks VonS.
I know I'm on the Woff forum but I would like to see current FE2 videos to find out more. I don't see any current video.
Thank you

#4554653 - 02/02/21 10:44 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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@OP, please see your inbox on SimHQ. Have PM-ed you some links to representative vids., also to screenshots. Have also sent you my original post regarding FE2, and have deleted it from this page, so as not to clutter this thread with off-topic info.

Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 02/02/21 10:51 PM. Reason: Edited info.

// See WOFF on a Mac post for links to FM Tweaks Packages and GPU Tuner Patch for WOFF PE/UE. (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4554794 - 02/04/21 07:56 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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I have tried FE2 but never stuck to it.
The flight modelling and physics is not as detailed as it is implied in above posts.
I also have RoF with more complex flight modelling and engine management, I did some modding there too
but the feeling of WOFF is unparallel (even older versions) and for me is the best.


WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4554802 - 02/04/21 09:55 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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That's when I read actual WW1 combat flying narratives or reports that I realize how good is WOFF In one way the reader in me can often quite precisely understand what the narrator means when he describes a ùission or a combat flight and in another way , the gamer reminds himself what he read when he is involved in a particular situation ...that's good enough for me because I play for immersion above all . Of course, seems that ROF is superior to WOFF concerning the FM (important for immersion in the case) and the managemnt of the aircraft (less important for me : narratives rarely describes in detail this point).

Last edited by kaa; 02/04/21 10:19 AM.

"Anyone can shoot you down if you don't see him coming but it takes a wonderfully good Hun to bag a Camel if you're expecting him."
Tom Cundall.
#4554807 - 02/04/21 11:31 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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One of my main interests in WW1 aviation is the shear number of different aircraft types that were produced and how they compared to each other. In many instances, these designs had flaws which inhibited performance in someway, such as the DH2's tendency to spin, or the Nieuport being unable to dive, etc etc.

So for me, the ideal WW1 flight sim has as many of these aircraft as possible, with as realistic flight characteristics as possible so I can pit my mediocre skills against as many different aircraft types as possible for as long as possible in as challenging circumstances as possible.

Rise of Flight was a fun game to play for a while, the graphics were lovely and the flight characteristics for the aircraft in the game were generally good, but once the developers stopped making aircraft it was dead. If you wanted to fly dogfights all day then it was ideal, but it wasn't for me. Because it couldn't fulfill hardly any of the above criteria. It seemed aimed far more at the multiplayer crowd and I don't play multiplayer.

WOFF may well be using an aged framework, but what the devs have accomplished with it is remarkable. I have the opportunity to fly aircraft I've never dreamed of doing before. I've been able to fly a fulfilling career from mid 1915 through to late 1916 (before I bit the bullet frown ), flying and coming up against multiple aircraft types. This would be impossible in any other WW1 flight sim I've ever played.

Nothing is perfect, but WOFF is far closer to giving me what I want as an ardent WW1 aviation nut, than ROF or anything else out there is or was and as for the future, i'd much sooner have some new aircraft to fly and fight against, with accurate flight characteristics.... than complex engine management so I can twiddle with a few knobs.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554822 - 02/04/21 01:16 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Hi.
Accurate flight characteristics are not achieved without complete engine management. I think it is not too much to ask that a WWI simulator have this included, the only necessary systems to model are the power, open or close radiator and control the mixture. If WOFF one day models this - I think it's not very complicated - it will be the best and most complete simulator.
Greetings.

#4554826 - 02/04/21 01:30 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Asam71]  
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Albert Tross Offline
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Accurate flight characteristics are not achieved without complete engine management.


Then we have very, very different ideas as to what makes up flight characteristics.

So I'll just leave it there.

Cheers.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554838 - 02/04/21 02:48 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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As I said before, every single tiny thing has to be actually made and programmed and tested to death. There's are 1000s of features, objects and other items in WOFF but it's taken a long time to get here. There is always more and more that could be added -emulating real life will likely take a life time of work and updating. However even to do that we need support, we actually need to make some profit to be able to live and carry on, otherwise we leave it and do something else. It doesn't help in a new movie thread of the coming new version to then join the forum to post a comment about what you personally do not like - nothing at all to do with the movie or what is being shown.

As it's been suggested, go to the wish list thread and put the thing YOU personally would like. Everyone wants something different or believes something they'd love to be in there is missing. We do not promise to add everything - some things are a lot of work for a small gain. Usually the "small" changes are a disproportionally large amount of work - and will sometimes appeal to a very few people so may not be worth it for us to spend a lot of time on.

Personally I really don't want to have to worry about the radiator 100 times a mission, and the once I forget to check, my engine craps out in a dogfight for the umpteenth time, but that's just what I like. I'd prefer to enjoy the rest of the experience. Others will disagree that's fine.
Some people think you can't have a World War I sim without having the War going on around you in the air and on the ground. Well they are in luck as WOFF has that.






Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554843 - 02/04/21 03:16 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Hi.
Accurate flight characteristics are not achieved without complete engine management. I think it is not too much to ask that a WWI simulator have this included, the only necessary systems to model are the power, open or close radiator and control the mixture. If WOFF one day models this - I think it's not very complicated - it will be the best and most complete simulator.
Greetings.


Mixture is in already.Take a look into WS. Power is in already. Blipswitch is in already. Changing drums is going to be in.

Radiators are not in. But also are birds at the airfields chirping in december instead of flying south. That‘s life and is no gamebreaker. I concentrate on the million other things which are in and so should you.

Cheers

#4554851 - 02/04/21 04:38 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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I personally don't give a dam about complex engine management - it is not something I wish to be constantly fiddling with/care for. Just have it do whatever the AI deems appropriate and does, otherwise there is a distinct advantage (or disadvantage as it may be) over the AI - which is important consideration for single player I think (yup, I get multiplayer is a completely different beast). I appreciate and accept those who want complex engine management in their combat fight sims and want to be constantly fiddling -- but it just isn't for me.


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
#4554859 - 02/04/21 05:20 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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I respect the desire for more complex engine management. It's no more or less a valid desire than any I have for WOFF. All I would ask is if the Devs ever do implement it, please make a Workshop toggle switch like there is for Mixture where it can be done automatically.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4554869 - 02/04/21 05:57 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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My $00.02. Probably just $00.01:

First, I like engine management, but I'm *also* glad no sim has modeled the water pump greaser for the Mercedes DIII engines. I wouldn't want to fly the, for example, Albatros D.V and have to lubricate the water pump every 10 minutes, as they did in reality. I'm also glad WW1 flight sims haven't modeled compass turning errors, deviation, and especially oscillation. Here's another thing flight sims don't model: hearing reduction due to altitude changes in unpressurized cockpits. E.g., during a dogfight that spirals down thousands of feet, your engine/wind/gun sounds reduce considerably until you clear your ears via an associated keystroke, after which normal hearing is restored. Wouldn't even have to be a dogfight, could just be a normal descent from altitude. If this didn't happen to every pilot during every flight, it happened to *almost* every pilot in *almost* every flight. Still, I don't focus on its absence. (But now that I've brought it up, get to work OBD! wave2 )

Anyway, I digress...

Second, there is no "best," because "best" is based upon individual scales, not a single, universally decided upon/accepted scale. One person's "best" is another's *yawn*.

Third, I love pizza. But I *also* love lasagna. Why only eat just one and never the other? They both offer something different. Same with flight sims. I play whatever I play based on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I have a hankering to play sim X, and other times sim Y, and other times sim Z. Just like sometimes I want to listen to Maiden, sometimes Priest, sometimes AC/DC (see previous paragraph.) What controls these hankerings? Who knows? Don't really care. I just go with them.

#4554883 - 02/04/21 06:32 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Well put Jim. Mmm that has got me thinking, we need a "scratch itchy ass" button in there too otherwise you get a spoilt aim.
Caster oil effects in the ass ... oh this could be good.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554891 - 02/04/21 07:06 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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DON'T DO IT Pol!!! The castor oil smells bad enough by itself!!!! If you know what I mean!!


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#4554901 - 02/04/21 08:03 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Oh Robert are you suggesting a smellovision module? Luckily a 100mph wind will help dissipate some.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554909 - 02/04/21 08:52 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Yes Robert, : biggrin

@Asam,

no Flightsim is perfect.
I have bought ROF and was .. disappointed.
A good FM, a very good visual DM, good textures / graphic with good FPS, a MP-Box,
and ... THAT WAS IT!
An unfinished game (or sim?) in my opinion.
Or as @OrbxP has written "You’re comparing apples to oranges... .RoF and FC is a multiplayer sim for instant action... ".

But it seems, you like ROF. That's absolutely okay!! But if so, why do you look at WOFF? What do you miss? Please think about it … .

And @Craighorn and other members have told you some details about the engine-management in WOFF. I have the impression, that it is more than you have known! Is it possible that you underestimate the FM / EM in WOFF a little bit and that you see your priority "engine Management" a little bit too seriously? And you don't change anything, if you repeat it (and repeat it....). At the end you must know this: your priorities!

IMHO WOFF is the TOP-WW1-Flightsim in present time for a singleplayer, with the will to high quality and historical closeness. I fly it again and again, I come back to it again and again. I know why (compliment OBD-Team!) and it's like a great addiction popcorn !


I hope that the WOFF-features correspond to your priorities and that you will make your decision for WOFF then!


Greetings

Last edited by Becker01; 02/05/21 06:58 AM.
#4554911 - 02/04/21 09:44 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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If you want to fly a WW1 plane buy RoF if you want to fly a plane in WW1 buy WOFF. For me WOFF out shines ROF ten fold. As a solo experience WOFF is superb, finally knocking Red Baron of the no1 list. Also WW1 planes aren't as complex as WW2 to present day so this in depth engine management and complex systems etc aren't missed so much compared to later era planes. The more advanced the plane the more complex it's systems become and the bigger part they play in a simulator and the more they'd be missed if not included. WW1 planes can get away with it, as long as the flight model is good then it's the environment that becomes the major player and WOFF nails this like no other.

Last edited by Wodin; 02/04/21 09:54 PM.
#4554917 - 02/04/21 11:39 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Knowing absolutely nothing about it, I am guessing that modding the engine management requires access to the source code, otherwise someone would have done it already?


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4554920 - 02/04/21 11:56 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71 Offline
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How ??? Woff doesn't have a button assigned to scratch his ass ???
I suggest that the pilot scratch it with his left hand so that he can operate the radiator with his right. Jajjjj.
Greetings.

#4554937 - 02/05/21 04:50 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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My 2 cents?
WOFF for me is so immersive and I've had some incredible moments I won't forget. For a single player campaign its second to none, (altho Falcon 4 BMS campaign stands right there with it) and is just incredible! I have ROF and while its a pretty sim with a decent FM, I just don't ever play it. The world seems sterile with not a whole lot to do. A multiplayer sim. But thats just my opinion. To each his own.

Thanks OBD for the good memories. Here's to many more!

#4554943 - 02/05/21 08:56 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Wodin]  
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Albert Tross Offline
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Originally Posted by Wodin
If you want to fly a WW1 plane buy RoF if you want to fly a plane in WW1 buy WOFF.


Excellently put Wodin, you've summed it up perfectly. WOFF is much more about what's going on around you as much as your aircraft itself. The WOFF world is huge but busy, things are happening, aircraft flying, motor convoys moving, factory's working, actual trench lines who'll kill you if you fly too low over them, artillery pounding and balloons and archie all over the place. It's a living breathing world. Rise of Flight isn't, it's a few aircraft set on preset flight paths flying round and round in circles, perhaps a couple of balloons with archie nearby. Pretend artillery near the front and a few airfields scattered around, but the whole thing was not realistic. Yes the aircraft were very pretty and nicely modelled and yes they had engine management, but that was it. WOFF feels like I'm flying in a war zone. Then factor in the 80 odd aircraft I can fly with good flight characteristics and accurate rates of fire and you've got one hell of game.


Originally Posted by Wodin

For me WOFF out shines ROF ten fold. As a solo experience WOFF is superb, finally knocking Red Baron of the no1 list.


You've hit the nail on the head with that one Wodin. High praise indeed and rightly so. No other WW1 game has been able to create the atmosphere and tension that Red Baron had back in the day until WOFF.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554947 - 02/05/21 10:08 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Albert Tross]  
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Wodin Offline
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Originally Posted by Albert Tross
Originally Posted by Wodin
If you want to fly a WW1 plane buy RoF if you want to fly a plane in WW1 buy WOFF.


Excellently put Wodin, you've summed it up perfectly. WOFF is much more about what's going on around you as much as your aircraft itself. The WOFF world is huge but busy, things are happening, aircraft flying, motor convoys moving, factory's working, actual trench lines who'll kill you if you fly too low over them, artillery pounding and balloons and archie all over the place. It's a living breathing world. Rise of Flight isn't, it's a few aircraft set on preset flight paths flying round and round in circles, perhaps a couple of balloons with archie nearby. Pretend artillery near the front and a few airfields scattered around, but the whole thing was not realistic. Yes the aircraft were very pretty and nicely modelled and yes they had engine management, but that was it. WOFF feels like I'm flying in a war zone. Then factor in the 80 odd aircraft I can fly with good flight characteristics and accurate rates of fire and you've got one hell of game.


Originally Posted by Wodin

For me WOFF out shines ROF ten fold. As a solo experience WOFF is superb, finally knocking Red Baron of the no1 list.


You've hit the nail on the head with that one Wodin. High praise indeed and rightly so. No other WW1 game has been able to create the atmosphere and tension that Red Baron had back in the day until WOFF.



Thanks:)

#4554948 - 02/05/21 10:20 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Complex engine management might not appeal to everyone, so I can understand omission of some of it. I still feel that WOFF can do better in some of it’s missions. Currently, to complete either arty spotting or photo recon all you need to do is fly in circles for about 20 minutes. Fleshing this part out somehow would make a bomber career have more variety. Also, I would like to see the after effects of missions last a bit longer. So that it does feel like missions are connected when you start in your plane the next day you can see wreakge, or smoking damaged airfield buildings or large potholes from the bombs on airfields, etc just something to show the outcome of a previous day’s work would add greatly to the continuity of missions.

#4555062 - 02/06/21 01:17 AM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Just to leave my forum stalking hideout and chime in here, as someone who has worked a lot on adding complex engine management and systems modeling to regular CFS3, I will say that building those things from scratch takes a LONG time. It has taken me over two years to do this for just one aircraft - the Spitfire, which by WWII standards is not terribly complex. So obviously I'm a huge fan of having complex systems modeled for the aircraft I fly and would absolutely love to see that in WOFF/WOTR, but I also know that it would be an absolutely massive undertaking for OBD. Even though the WWI aircraft are much less complex than doing a WWII aircraft up to the same standard, they would still be dealing with all of the same obstacles that I have in implementing it, in addition to having to build the whole thing from scratch. If OBD wants to do it, I'm all for it, but I wouldn't be expecting it any time soon even if they started today! Meanwhile they've been changing and improving things I never imagined were possible.

On a related note, the reason I put so much work into building my own complex systems in CFS3 when I could just fly an existing sim that already has it modeled, and the reason I prefer WOFF to any WWI sim on the market by a wide margin even though the systems are much more basic are the same. The newer, more complex sims have a lot of cool detail, but they ring pretty hollow under the surface. They are built for the mass multiplayer market and it shows in the lack of effort they put into making you feel like you are immersed in anything bigger than this evening's dogfight. Don't get me wrong, that can be a lot of fun, but it doesn't keep me coming back. And if you do your research, you'll find that a lot of the snazzy little details in the other sims aren't actually how the real thing worked anyways! Of course if OBD could manage to deliver both sides of this equation, WOFF would be the unquestioned king of flight sims, but there are good reasons why even much bigger design studios haven't tackled that one yet!

#4555132 - 02/06/21 08:37 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Good Strong points of analysis Gecko. Thanks for stating what I couldn't!


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#4555140 - 02/06/21 09:14 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Can’t really add a great deal to what’s already been posted, OBD,S sims are the only ones that constantly stay on my Drive, ROF and others sometimes get reinstalled, I fly a bit then after a few flights I realise why I uninstalled them previously.

WOFF gives me something that many other sims don’t..immersion, immersion in bucketloads coupled with fantastic Ai, and a living breathing world, I fell in love with OBD wayyy back with P2 and I’ve been with them ever since, were all ( mostly) one big happy family here, great Dev correspondence and support, fantastic modders who strive to make the sim better and better. OBD,s sims also got me into reading excellent books like No Parachute, Open Cockpit, Sagittarius rising amongst many others that I never would have read previously to flying their sims.

Wodins post above pretty much nails it,and I for one cannot wait until BHAH II is released ( Give us a date Pol so I can get the time off work winkngrin )

Take care all, see you in the skies soon


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
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More troubles for the 737 Max
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Prince Philip has died
by KraziKanuK. 04/09/21 11:33 AM
On board the Wilhelm Gustloff
by Docjonel. 04/09/21 05:54 AM
Eagle deuce
by Crane Hunter. 04/09/21 01:51 AM
what's your internet context
by jroc. 04/08/21 01:40 AM
Old Tourist Film from Newfoundland
by No105_Archie. 04/06/21 03:36 AM
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