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#4554330 - 01/31/21 08:32 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71 Offline
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Valladolid
Hi, I'm new to this forum - thanks for letting me participate - and the same in Woff, but I have experience in almost all flight simulators. They all have regular updates and you don't have to pay for them. It does not seem correct to me that you have to pay for each Woff update.
I can't help but compare it to rise of flight. Rof is much better simulator. Everything that has to be modeled on a WWI plane is. Seriously, it was only possible to model the radiator of the Albatros V in Woff? Another thing wrong with Woff is that the guns keep firing with the propellers stopped. Can't they simulate this correctly?
I hope my ideas are not misunderstood.
regards

#4554334 - 01/31/21 09:09 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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It's rather off topic Andres, and I may move this to its own thread .. but if you look at the 100's of regular free updates, new features (even we added a free Fokker DVI) we have done with each release over time. Many more and faster than most software developers then that's harsh to complain about this particular favourite feature whatever. Yes we need to eat. We work full time on this and WW1 is a small area so if we spend a year working most days and evening making something for you to enjoy, we need money to continue. I'd love to be rich and do it for free, but unfortunately not. We are very far from rich from this in any way believe me.

We can do more but as always it takes time. 2 people making the sim, 80+ flyable aircraft, including the BEST campaign engine in any WW1 sim, the best AI in any WW1 sim takes time and work and dedication. We have added many things, including moving gun levers, different rates of fire and more but yes there is always more to do.

Even WOFF UE alone nearly 100 items updated, added or fixed in around TWENTY THREE free updates :
http://www.overflandersfields.com/downloads-woffue.html
scroll down to read the history of changes list

WOFF PE
http://www.overflandersfields.com/downloads-woffpe.html
62 free improvements and fixes since release.

It was the same or more for any other release we ever did.

Maybe if you take some time and play the campaign you may appreciate the 100s of things that are NOT in other WW1 sims.
Every single game on the planet you can criticize - why isn't the whole world war in this sim? Because you have to actually make every single tiny part and sims take a long time to do that.

Hey what about my <insert favourite item/feature/aircraft> is very common.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554335 - 01/31/21 09:17 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Hi, I'm new to this forum - thanks for letting me participate - and the same in Woff, but I have experience in almost all flight simulators. They all have regular updates and you don't have to pay for them. It does not seem correct to me that you have to pay for each Woff update.


First, I'm not at all associated with OBD and don't know any of them or the mod-ers except through this forum. I would say that all the flight sims have a economic model, they are just different. The newest version of IL2 Flying Circus II has been announced and they are taking pre-orders (buy it now, get it later). RoF relied on people buying in game content. WOFF relies on people buying major upgrades (fixes are free). This isn't any different than many other games/programs. Whether this is "correct" or not depends on your point of view. For me, it's a lot of work and the folks at OBD deserve to eat.

Originally Posted by Asam71
I can't help but compare it to rise of flight ... <snip> ... I hope my ideas are not misunderstood.


I'll just say that no program is perfect, and this isn't the thread to have a "my sim is better than your sim" discussion. Fly what you enjoy. Life's too short to do otherwise.


i7-7700 @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, SSD (OS) + SSD (Games), GTX 1070 Ti, Acer Predator Z35p 3440x1440 GSync
#4554344 - 01/31/21 11:47 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
They all have regular updates and you don't have to pay for them. ... Rof is much better simulator.


Regular updates in WOFF/WOTR are also free (see vers. 4,15, 4.18, 4.2.x, etc. of WOFF, also vers. 1.19 and 1.21 of WOTR - the former brought in the Fokk. D.VI among other improvements, the latter brought in the Spitfire Mk.I and other fixes, etc.). I don't know of any WW1 flight sim. where big upgrade packs/improvements are free - with the possible exception of FE2 where the modders have brought more to the table than FE2 stock ever offered - but FE2 is a strange exception to the rule, the flight sim. equivalent of a Linux-distro for those of us who enjoy "build it yourself simulator" variants.

As far as complete and polished packages go - WOFF is the best there is - and is reasonably priced considering that it is a full, DRM-free download. There are also excellent addons/mods for WOFF too - all those are free as well - which is one of the other nice things about WOFF - it fits well both with modders and those who want to install a complete flight sim. and not worry about addons.

ROF is largely empty in stock form and requires that aircraft be bought individually if you want more than the standard three types offered - in terms of the FMs ... there are so many opinions on that that I best not go there thoroughly. Suffice it to say, in my humble opinion, that the FMs in ROF are not a universal gold standard but a valid approach, using a different flight/physics model, to WW1 aircraft simulation (see debates on "data tables" versus dynamic flight models, and so on, if interested in such topics).

Happy flying,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 02/26/21 08:19 PM. Reason: Edited post.

// See WOFF on a Mac post for installation instructions regarding WOFF UE/PE/BH&H2 on Macs (https://tinyurl.com/WOFFonMac) // VonS WOFF/WOTR mods. are tweaks of files that are © OBD Software. // FE2 Tweaked FMs & Realism Pack (https://tinyurl.com/FE2fms) // FE2 Representative Vids. (https://tinyurl.com/fe2onamac) //
#4554351 - 02/01/21 02:14 AM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71 Offline
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Hi.
Of course I have not commented on everything good about this sim and that is why I bought it. Of course the AI ​​is much better and the general look of the scenes I love. But I still think that there are basic things that should be modeled - the manipulation of the radiator is essential to achieve optimal speed and a good engine operation - the weapons of those aircraft jammed and the pilot could make them fire again, the drum of Lewis machine guns wears out and you have to reload, etc ... I think there is nothing wrong with imitating what is well done in other simulators, look how well the effect of rain on the glasses is achieved and how it is simulated that the player has been injured.
Rof no longer has development so I think that Woff can be the best simulator of all time if he takes what was well done in Rof.
To finish he clarified that I have never doubted that the developers deserve their salary, count on me to buy the new update.
Greetings.

#4554380 - 02/01/21 11:15 AM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71 Offline
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Valladolid
He did not want to open a debate, he simply wanted to make a constructive criticism. Woff is a great game but if you want to be a great simulator you should have all the systems modeled and in a WWI plane there are few - power, mix, radiator
And weapons. Woff doesn't have them fully modeled, hence my complaint. If it succeeds, it will undoubtedly be the best WWI simulator.
Greetings.

#4554387 - 02/01/21 12:00 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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On the WWI aviation front I have RoF, (all content produced), I have FC1, (and 2 preordered).
And then there is OFF/WoFF... (I have all content produced). I have to say, if I want to absolutely immerse myself in a believable WWI experience, it's WoFF every time.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the other products because I do... each have their good and not so good points, but it's WoFF that is always top of that list.
With the new version due out this year (hopefully), it's likely to stay there smile

#4554388 - 02/01/21 12:10 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
On the WWI aviation front I have RoF, (all content produced), I have FC1, (and 2 preordered).
And then there is OFF/WoFF... (I have all content produced). I have to say, if I want to absolutely immerse myself in a believable WWI experience, it's WoFF every time.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the other products because I do... each have their good and not so good points, but it's WoFF that is always top of that list.
With the new version due out this year (hopefully), it's likely to stay there smile


+1

For me WOFFs huge plane set and dynamic campaign can't be matched. No sim is perfect but WOFF is continually improving with paid expansions and new stand alone versions but also with hundreds of free updates. Other WWI sims are cool too (I own them all) but for me WOFF has that something special that draws me in every time. The preview movie (back on topic) gives me plenty of reasons to believe WOFF is going to remain my go to WWI sim for a very long time to come. Thanks for the movie Pol!

Last edited by Hellshade; 02/01/21 12:13 PM.

Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4554401 - 02/01/21 01:58 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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The latest movie makes the upcoming WOFF release look very good indeed, the raindrops on the goggles and the more animated pilot look great.

We're all waiting for the day when it comes out with great anticipation.

As for the discussion between ROF and WOFF......I own Rise of Flight and all of the aircraft and it looks fantastic and the game can be good fun, especially when using Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator, but looks can be deceptive. Scratch under the surface and there were many major issues. The most glaring of which was the lack of two seater aircraft. How can you have a realistic WW1 flight sim without the BE2 or Caudron in it? Which means everyone, English, French, Belgian and even Russian pilots are flying around in FE2b's up until 1917. Which made missions very samey indeed.

I don't own FC but that seems to be going along the same lines as ROF, it looks superb, but the aircraft on offer are more to do with what will sell well rather than what will make the game more historically accurate.

WOFF is ALL about historical accuracy, be it aircraft, specifications, squadrons, pilots, medals, and we have a living breathing community on here who will no doubt keep it so. That's what makes all the difference for me. I don't want an arcade shoot 'em up with wings flying everywhere, nor do I want to have to shoot down the 125th FE2b of my career.

I want to fly these incredible aircraft and try to get the better of the enemy aircraft and get a tiny inckling of what it might have been like to have had to do it for real over 100 years ago. To try and fly through the war for as long as possible.

For this, there isn't even a debate, WOFF is miles ahead of any other WW1 flight sim.



"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554409 - 02/01/21 02:40 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Asam71 Offline
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Hi. It would certainly be if it simulated all the systems on a WWI plane. For me it is a great game, but until they are well simulated, the radiators, mixture, firing rate and engine failures due to overheating or exceeding RPM cannot be called a simulator. A lot of interest is being put into improving it aesthetically - yes that is very good - but it would be better to spend energy making it a real simulator.
Greetings.

#4554410 - 02/01/21 02:45 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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I completely agree with AlbertTross. Spot on.

Simulation wise, regarding engine management specially, there are many things that can be improved, that´s a fact. OP is correct there. Anyone who has flown both can quickly notice there is a lot more investment/money in some simulation aspects of RoF. OBD heavily focused on immersion, historical authenticity, unparalallel AI and many aspects that make WOFF the best WW1 experience out there, but with a 2 man team, having the best of the best in all aspects is, maybe, impossible. Specially if we intend them to release updates for...free. (Maybe they should go for a Kickstarter campaign?)

But WOFF has something that any other WW1 product hasn´t achieved. When you have killed your 200th Albatros, Camel, whatever due to flying stupid Ai, in a scripted mission from a DLC. When you feel almost invulnerable because everything surrounding you is plain stupid, the implemnetation of a radiator setting or your engine management simulation becomes gimmicky. And the Multiplayer is no doubt fun, but it´s a Shoot em Up with canvas crafts that I don´t enjoy.

Last edited by ArisFuser; 02/01/21 03:04 PM.
#4554419 - 02/01/21 03:27 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Albert Tross Offline
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Hi. It would certainly be if it simulated all the systems on a WWI plane. For me it is a great game, but until they are well simulated, the radiators, mixture, firing rate and engine failures due to overheating or exceeding RPM cannot be called a simulator. A lot of interest is being put into improving it aesthetically - yes that is very good - but it would be better to spend energy making it a real simulator.
Greetings.


Hi,

This really isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I do need to correct you on a couple of points there as they are highly inaccurate and would give any reader complete misinformation.

1) Engine Failures - WOFF does have sporadic engine failures, unlike any other simulator out there and totally historically accurate, as aircraft would often drop out of patrols due to random engine failures.

2) Firing rates - The firing rates in WOFF are far more accurate than the standard rates found in Rise of Flight which could only be slowed by the aid of a MOD.

As for WOFF not being a real flight simulator, we're all entitled to our opinions of course. WOFF gives me the things I need out of a WW1 flight sim more than ROF ever did. WOFF needs a few things tweaking, but not a total rethink which ROF did. But if you're not enjoying it then by all means you stick with Rise of Flight even though it's a completely dead duck now of course. Whereas WOFF isn't, it's still very much alive thanks to the hardworking developers and the fantastic MOD creators we have on here.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554444 - 02/01/21 04:56 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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I guess my main issue is the engine underneath. CFS3 just isn't optimized well for modern computers - and I wish (though this won't be popular, I fear (sorry)) that perhaps they didn't do WOTR and the last expansion and were perhaps at a stage now where they were releasing the beginnings of a new series on a brand new engine (if that was indeed possible(?)).

That being said, I very much love the sim and will (though low on $ with pandemic) purchase the new expansion and look forward to the offerings for sure - it is truly amazing what they have been able to squeeze out of it. Truly amazing dynamic campaign and AI that can't be beat anywhere! Fabulous stuff!


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
#4554445 - 02/01/21 04:56 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Polovski]  
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Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????

#4554451 - 02/01/21 05:13 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????


Someone with more historical knowledge is free to correct me, but if the prop isn't in front of the gun or if it's a gun mounted on the top wing firing over the prop, it might. I've had my engine quit and the gun wouldn't fire and I've had other times that it did, so it's possible those (or other) factors may play into it.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4554465 - 02/01/21 06:08 PM Re: WOFF BH&H2 Preview #1 movie [Re: Asam71]  
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Albert Tross Offline
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????


If it annoys you so much just stop pulling the bloody trigger when the engine's stopped.....then it won't will it.

But seeing as you seem hellbent on having a perfectly good thread about the upcoming new WOFF game ruined....I'm going to stop there.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4554472 - 02/01/21 07:02 PM Nothing to do with Movie thread  
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As I said I would, I moved all off topic chat about what is or is not in WOFF (and other sims) to its own thread.

Last edited by Polovski; 02/01/21 07:12 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554491 - 02/01/21 08:56 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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Trooper117 Online smile
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I'd just lock it mate... I think it's run it's course.

#4554493 - 02/01/21 09:05 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Polovski]  
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That may well be next thanks Trooper.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4554504 - 02/01/21 09:42 PM Re: Nothing to do with Movie thread [Re: Asam71]  
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Originally Posted by Asam71
Shooting with the engine stopped - that is possible in Woff- is it real ????


I don't know the answer for sure, but assuming that the synchronizer mechanism simply stops the gun from firing when the prop is in front of the gun, then yes it would be real.

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