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#4550467 - 01/02/21 05:40 PM Wayet Earp  
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Just curious as to what the members think is the better Wyatt Earp movie is the one with Kevin Costner or the version with Kurt Russell..Watching the Kevin Costner version now and I think it's the best


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#4550472 - 01/02/21 06:31 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Russell, all the way. But then, I'm not a big Costner fan.


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#4550473 - 01/02/21 06:32 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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They're both great, but I remember "Tombstone" the most.

#4550474 - 01/02/21 06:35 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Originally Posted by rwatson
Watching the Kevin Costner version now and I think it's the best


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#4550476 - 01/02/21 06:38 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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ave them both on DVD and going yo play them back to back..Just a question who most appears most "delivererent"


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#4550479 - 01/02/21 06:45 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Originally Posted by rwatson
ave them both on DVD and going yo play them back to back..Just a question who most appears most "delivererent"


Huh?

#4550500 - 01/02/21 10:16 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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As I recall, the Costner version delves more deeply into Earp's earlier life. But from what I've read about the incidents leading up to the famous shootout, the gunfight itself, and the aftermath (with the notable exceptions of an extremely compressed timeframe between the shootout and the retaliation attacks on Virgil and Morgan, and the demises of Curly Bill and Ringo*), "Tombstone" is more historically accurate than any movie, ever. But I am, by no means, a serious scholar of the Old West.


*Earp's account of Brocius's death was similar to the movie, vis-a-vis the shotgun-to-shotgun climax, but the Cowboys weren't waiting in ambush. Wyatt rode on ahead of the rest of his group and as he topped a hill, there they were. Both sides were caught completely off-guard. Lots of gunfire, during which Wyatt was untouched (supposedly he never received a bullet wound in his entire life). He said that after killing Brocius he got back on his horse, got out of there, and decided to give up the chase. No "Last Ride" during which the Cowboys were wiped out.

Johnny Ringo, from what I've read, wanted no part in the feud. At all. In fact, he was so far removed from the character in "Tombstone" it's pathetic. Russell probably thought the name sounded too cool not to be the badass that appeared on the screen. Or maybe he was influenced, consciously or not, by the Lorne Greene song from the 60's. The real Johnny Ringo's body was found, already several days dead, not far from a stagecoach road, leaning against a tree with a single gunshot wound to the head. So the way he was left in the movie fits reality, but no one ever claimed to have killed him and the angle of the bullet found in the tree didn't really fit suicide, which (I believe) it was eventually ruled.


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#4550510 - 01/02/21 11:13 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Tombstone is a modern Western classic and I’ve seen it several times. I’ve not seen the Kevin Costner version but I do recall that it was a big box office flop.


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#4550512 - 01/02/21 11:37 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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#4550513 - 01/02/21 11:44 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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“Murdered” is the incorrect term for the creator of that YouTube video to have used. It implies an unjustified killing which was certainly not the case in this scenario.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4550522 - 01/03/21 03:01 AM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Originally Posted by rwatson
Just curious as to what the members think is the better Wyatt Earp movie is the one with Kevin Costner or the version with Kurt Russell..Watching the Kevin Costner version now and I think it's the best


Either one is likable enough for different reasons. Both are more accurate than other movies before them concerning the subject but are mostly actually accurate only to general historical points. For example, much of the detail that survived to this day about the gunfight itself as well as the testimony that gives us the best evidence as to who was at fault comes from a hearing that took place for a month after the fight when the Earps were essentially under arrest and yet Tombstone doesn't mention this at all and even though it has been quite a while since I have seen Wyatt Earp, I am pretty sure it doesn't come up there either. At the time though, it was the talk of the town.

Tombstone does use more of the contemporary dialogue mentioned in the articles about the gunfight, but gets other things wrong: Wyatt did not use what was supposed to represent the Buntline Special during the gunfight and Doc Holliday did not turn Fly's photography studio into Swiss cheese shooting at Ike Clanton. Russell does have a more correct moustache based on contemporary photographs of Earp. Dennis Quaid was probably closer to the real Doc Holliday although almost everybody in both movies were way to old for their parts. Most of the gunfight participants were about thirty with outliers Virgil being 36ish and Billy Clanton being 19(!) The Tombstone vendetta ride is ridiculously over the top but then Doc Holliday absolutely did not kill Johnny Ringo at the Iron Springs shootout. (He almost certainly didn't kill him like Tombstone depicts either, or at all, for that matter...)

Finally, Earp was not the sourpuss that Costner seems to think he has to play ever character as since, what, after Bull Durham?


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#4550526 - 01/03/21 04:44 AM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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I haven't seen Wyatt Earp in 25 years, but from what I remember it wasn't nearly as entertaining nor as cinematically composed, despite having 2.5x the budget that Tombstone had.

#4550655 - 01/04/21 04:07 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Costner was originally set to star in Tombstone. However, he and the writer had artistic differences. Kevin Jarre, who had written the screenplay for the ACW classic Glory, was the writer for Tombstone and his screenplay was designed for an ensemble cast around the events that led up to the OK coral shootout without focusing strictly on Earp. Jarre also started out as director but wasn't very good in that role so he was replaced after a month by George P. Cosmatos.

Here's a Sam Elliot interview from 2019 that talks about some of this.

Sam Elliot Remembers Tombstone

Costner wanted the movie to be centered around him as Earp. Consequently, Costner left the production and started up a competing movie company to produce his Wyatt Earp movie. At the time, Costner was an "A" lister in the movie industry due to his previous success with "Dances with Wolves", so he used his considerable clout in Hollywood in an attempt to keep most of the major studios from picking up the Tombstone production.

Reportedly, Kurt Russell came on board and helped Jarre finalize his script. In spite of Costner's efforts they did get a studio backer and got their movie out several months before Costner's three-hour long bigger budget epic hit the theaters. Tombstone did well at the box office while Costner's "Wyatt Earp" bombed. It wasn't that the Costner movie was bad, it just didn't resonate with the critics and audiences as well at the time. Some of this had to do with Tombstone getting into the theaters first despite Costner's efforts to sabotage the other movie.

Personally, I have always thought that Kevin Costner was overrated as an actor while Kurt Russell was conversely underrated. Russell can do both comedy and serious drama well and can many times disappear into his character. Consequently, he can go from a serious but likable Wyatt Earp in Tombstone to a hard ass obsessed military man in Stargate and almost an automaton in "Soldier" and then switch to goofy over the top characters like "Snake Pliskin" in the escape movies to lovable clowns like in "Overboard". Costner, on the other hand, plays as simply varying levels of Costner whether he is "Robin Hood" or "Elliot Ness" or "Wyatt Earp".

Here's the Rotten Tomatoes comparison between the two movies. It's also worth noting that while the Tombstone movie tried to stay fairly close to the Old West with costuming and firearms, the Costner movie did not. Just look at the poster below of Wyatt Earp. He is wearing a slotted fast draw "Buscadero" style belt and holster. This type of holster is a pure Hollywood fantasy and is not period correct. Tombstone managed to mostly avoid this with the exception of the long-barreled "Buntline" used by Earp in the movie. Long barreled Colt SAA's did exist since one could custom order any barrel length from Colt.

However, it's just a myth that Ned Buntline actually presented such a firearm to various lawmen. Most historians today think that Earp very likely used an S & W model 3 top break since he had been given one by the local newspaper editor John Clum--sometime prior to the shootout.
Earp's OK corral shootout pistol



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Attached Files Tombstone.jpg

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#4550764 - 01/05/21 09:58 AM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: vonBaur]  
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Originally Posted by vonBaur
As I recall, the Costner version delves more deeply into Earp's earlier life. But from what I've read about the incidents leading up to the famous shootout, the gunfight itself, and the aftermath (with the notable exceptions of an extremely compressed timeframe between the shootout and the retaliation attacks on Virgil and Morgan, and the demises of Curly Bill and Ringo*), "Tombstone" is more historically accurate than any movie, ever. But I am, by no means, a serious scholar of the Old West.


*Earp's account of Brocius's death was similar to the movie, vis-a-vis the shotgun-to-shotgun climax, but the Cowboys weren't waiting in ambush. Wyatt rode on ahead of the rest of his group and as he topped a hill, there they were. Both sides were caught completely off-guard. Lots of gunfire, during which Wyatt was untouched (supposedly he never received a bullet wound in his entire life). He said that after killing Brocius he got back on his horse, got out of there, and decided to give up the chase. No "Last Ride" during which the Cowboys were wiped out.

Johnny Ringo, from what I've read, wanted no part in the feud. At all. In fact, he was so far removed from the character in "Tombstone" it's pathetic. Russell probably thought the name sounded too cool not to be the badass that appeared on the screen. Or maybe he was influenced, consciously or not, by the Lorne Greene song from the 60's. The real Johnny Ringo's body was found, already several days dead, not far from a stagecoach road, leaning against a tree with a single gunshot wound to the head. So the way he was left in the movie fits reality, but no one ever claimed to have killed him and the angle of the bullet found in the tree didn't really fit suicide, which (I believe) it was eventually ruled.



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#4550770 - 01/05/21 12:27 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: Forward Observer]  
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Originally Posted by Forward Observer
Costner was originally set to star in Tombstone. However, he and the writer had artistic differences.





Costner let his A list status in the 90's seriously get to this head. The result? Three major box office flops: Wyatt Earp, Waterworld and The Postman.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4550819 - 01/05/21 05:45 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Never been impressed with Costner as the dashing, tough-guy hero. I think he's at his best when he plays the out-of-his-league, type like he did in "Bull Durham" and "The Untouchables". I absolutely couldn't stand "Dances with Wolves". Make a hero out of someone who couldn't even successfully commit suicide in the middle of a war? Sorry, not my cup of tea. But like Forward so astutely Observed (see what I did there?), the movie was a smash and he became a star. And "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" was best summed up when Morgan Freeman, a black guy in 12th Century England, does a better job inspiring the people to rise up against their oppressors than the hero who was born and raised there. Of course, Rickman stole that entire show as the bad guy. Just like Hopper stole "Waterworld".

I did like him in "Open Range", but he was a reluctant hero in that. Didn't go out looking for trouble or trying to be John Wayne, but when trouble came he put his skills to use. He also didn't try to upstage Duvall, either. That was smart.


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#4550845 - 01/05/21 07:14 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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I thought his acting style fit his role in The Bodyguard very well.


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#4550849 - 01/05/21 07:22 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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I have to go with Russell's version.
Val Kilmer's portrayal of Doc Holiday was a much better character than Quaid's IMO.


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#4552174 - 01/13/21 10:28 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4552177 - 01/13/21 11:15 PM Re: Wayet Earp [Re: rwatson]  
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Tombstone had all the Cowboy Hoopla of the Old West. Outlaws and Law men walked the walk and talked the talk It was shoot em up Popcorn film with attention to period detail ( Gun Holsters, firearms, clothing. Cowboy talk like I am ur Huckleberry ect } It dealt more with the Fantasy of the West than the Truth about the West. thus providing a Fantasy release in a fun Movie that I still enjoy watching over again. As for Costner's film it was too long. Maybe his best attempt was Open Range with Robert Duvall. and the longest gunfight on film

https://youtu.be/1E4BQmImrm4

https://youtu.be/ANsUMi1a3_o

Last edited by carrick58; 01/13/21 11:19 PM.
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