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#3782526 - 05/15/13 09:46 AM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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Imo BMS is best simulator ever but has one of the biggest disadvantage.Where to find time for it?:(
One mission can last for 1 - 2 of 3 hours.How many people can spend so much time without leaving computer.
Why you can not have mission as eech~15 20 minutes.

#3782544 - 05/15/13 11:37 AM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: komemiute]  
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komemiute, yep, I'm just misunderstood.

#3782550 - 05/15/13 12:03 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: komemiute]  
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Originally Posted By: komemiute
I see...
I absolutely was NOT talking about EECH.


My sentence:
Komemiute:
Anyway... as I said with a full family time is limited so all I can do is to get more and more proficient with the A10, another love interest of mine.
I'm not too shabby with it so far, with still some room for improvement!


I said that since I have a wife and two kids my time on the PC is limited. All I can do is get better with the one I started. In this very case the A-10C Warthog module for DCS World.

I'm not too shabby with it so far: was indeed related to the A10- this means I'm not too bad using it.
With still some room for improvement: Means that on the A10 I'm still not the best player ever, I still have some things to learn and some procedures to get fluent with.

That's all.
No mention whatsoever of EECH, as you can see...


I feel your pain. I've been slowly working on creating a Blackhawk cockpit, but with a young family, my time is also limited.

But having 10 limited time developers, is probably better than having 1 or 2 biggrin

#3782551 - 05/15/13 12:08 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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Speaking of, we want some Blackhawk screenshot update neaner

#3782556 - 05/15/13 12:21 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: ]  
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Originally Posted By: joe13
Speaking of, we want some Blackhawk screenshot update neaner


Errrr.... Yeah, so nice weather we're having, not trying to change the subject or anything biggrin


I've had computer problems, so I need to get it all back up an running. I'm probably getting a new laptop next month so I can continue with it. I'm also waiting to hear back from Firebird for a couple of things.

#3799230 - 06/20/13 03:08 AM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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Originally Posted By: Haukka81
Here is pic of my sim corner: http://aijaa.com/aOlFAX

Holy crap that's awesome. :-)

Originally Posted By: messyhead
Everyone is good at criticising the flight model. ... there are few devs around that could do it.

Originally Posted By: Haukka81
Can't do that, no skills for that.

Whereas I have the skills to make changes -- been programming for 20+ years -- but I have no real experience flying helicopters so I don't know what changes to make. We need somebody who's a programmer AND a combat helicopter pilot. :-P

#3799245 - 06/20/13 04:06 AM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: AdamMil]  
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Originally Posted By: AdamMil

Whereas I have the skills to make changes -- been programming for 20+ years -- but I have no real experience flying helicopters so I don't know what changes to make. We need somebody who's a programmer AND a combat helicopter pilot. :-P

Being a programmer doesn't automatically qualify you as someone who can make good physics unfortunately.
So the equation is closer to: programming + acrobatic helicopter pilot + someone who understands physics + someone who can translate those physics into virtual reality... which explains why no one ever gets physics quite right!

I think it would really help if the community could come together and agree on what is actually wrong with EECH physics so progress can be made on it.



#4546033 - 11/25/20 05:06 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: kaboom]  
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Originally Posted by kaboom
With a normal load an AH-64 can pull 3.4Gs so at the speeds we tend to maneuver at I think the model is pretty close except for pedal turns and side-slipping which are way bad but I've tweaked the ini enough to make it acceptable. At least the horrific and ridiculous VRS of LB2 is not present, it's the one flight model area in LB2 that is SO far off the mark it's embarrassing. VRS is easy to deal with as long as you recognize what's going on.


LB2 does not model VRS. LB2 is an uncanny recreation of a AFCS-style helo with 'carefree handling' characteristics and no lame-ass canned, wings-leveling. As is, the LB2 flight model is just a slower version of the Attitude-Hold/Rate-Command mode of the Comanche preventing you from doing careless stuff. Add VRS to it and the ability to damage the main rotors with excessive maneuvering extremes (one most extreme attitude hold state to the other most extreme attitude hold state in very short rate command time), then the resulting flight model would be very hard to fault. The drawbacks in LB2 are the useless 3D cockpits in 3dfx, overall graphics compared to modern stuff now, enemy helos just circling you, and obviously the numerous bugs on current systems. An updated-looking and bug-free version of Longbow 2 just with its current simulation and missions would blow other chopper sims out of the water. Wouldn't even be hard to add VRS or main rotor damage if you do really crazy stuff with the controls too fast. Who owns the rights to LB2?

Last edited by Reticuli; 11/25/20 06:07 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

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#4546039 - 11/25/20 06:06 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  

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even if you get the source code, what next?the community of helicopter enthusiasts is very small, to adapt lb2 to the eech level requires thousands of hours of work of a dozen people.
Mission impossible.

#4546048 - 11/25/20 06:36 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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Who ever owns Longbow 2 just needs to adapt it into newer Windows with improved cockpit, new graphics system, with all the rest of the code being the same except for maybe very easy VRS, extreme handling damage added, and the enemy helos circling all the time. Seems like an easy money maker. Right now it's IP that's not making them money at all. I'm not talking about 'EECH level' which is, frankly, dog crap, anyway. Terrain system in EECH is garbage. Flight models are a garbage patch work. Longbow 2 is way stronger even without the dynamic campaign system, which is interesting because DCS has never managed missions or campaign branchings like Janes ever did. Longbow 2's main issues are 1) it's buggy on modern systems, and 2) it's got an awful cockpit: either 2D or useless 3D one.

Last edited by Reticuli; 11/25/20 06:48 PM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4546059 - 11/25/20 07:07 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Reticuli]  
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Originally Posted by Reticuli
I'm not talking about 'EECH level' which is, frankly, dog crap, anyway. Terrain system in EECH is garbage. Flight models are a garbage patch work.


I'm hoping this comment is just related to the flight model, and not the game in general?

#4546062 - 11/25/20 07:32 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  

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Just ignore him.

#4546077 - 11/25/20 09:47 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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The flight model has been made worse and the terrain system in EECH is garbage to the core. I'm talking about whoever owns Longbow 2 ought to consider simply taking the sim and porting it to modern Windows with a newer graphics system. Even bringing it up to Falcon Allied Force/BMS looks would probably be enough. That thing seems to work on all versions of Windows. Not super glitzy, but functional. The core simulation of LB2 is sound. Great full authority flight model even without VRS, especially for the vast majority of people with spring or pressure sticks and unlike the headache that is dealing with helos in DCS or this lame, simplistic wings leveling junk in EECH, Comanche Gold, or Search & Rescue. I mean, there are ways of dealing with that, but it's not ideal and eventually will catch up with you when you do something like reaching the goofy pitch or roll angle limits. A stable LB2 that actually looked halfway decent and usable? That's definitely marketable. How hard could that be for a company when the core simulation is sound?


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4546086 - 11/25/20 10:59 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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I am still not sure what is your point - eech does not deserve to exist, or you wish it could be better?

#4546088 - 11/25/20 11:04 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  

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he has been writing the same babble for 15 years.
I read the same with version 1.13 or something.hard case, ignore.

#4546099 - 11/26/20 01:20 AM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: ]  
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Originally Posted by thealx
I am still not sure what is your point - eech does not deserve to exist, or you wish it could be better?


My point is that the IP owner of LB2 could stand to make some money off it with a port to modern OS and that Banita is making a bizarre comparison with modded EECH1. Wish EECH didn't exist? I play it all the time. But there's some things LB2 did much better.

Originally Posted by BANITA
he has been writing the same babble for 15 years.
I read the same with version 1.13 or something.hard case, ignore.


I can't say I ever noticed our paths crossing on here before.

Last edited by Reticuli; 11/26/20 01:23 AM.

The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
#4546116 - 11/26/20 08:05 AM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  
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EECH flight model was never in a scope of any developer since the beginning. It was good enough in release year, then no one tried to replace it with something more complicated.
Only revolutionary improvement that was made in all these years is suspension dynamics added by Arneh, which I have applied to all helicopters and added water collision. Everything else was just adjustments, you shouldn't expect much from this approach.
But I wouldn't compare anything related to this game with dog sh#t. Weak side - sure, but it was matter of chance that some dev with physics knowledge will step in and make something new. That just did not happen.
Same story with LB2 - copyrights owners does not see commercial potential in it, or have more important problems, or loose rights completely. Life sucks, it is the fact.

#4546128 - 11/26/20 12:49 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Reticuli]  
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Originally Posted by Reticuli
The flight model has been made worse and the terrain system in EECH is garbage to the core. I'm talking about whoever owns Longbow 2 ought to consider simply taking the sim and porting it to modern Windows with a newer graphics system. Even bringing it up to Falcon Allied Force/BMS looks would probably be enough. That thing seems to work on all versions of Windows. Not super glitzy, but functional. The core simulation of LB2 is sound. Great full authority flight model even without VRS, especially for the vast majority of people with spring or pressure sticks and unlike the headache that is dealing with helos in DCS or this lame, simplistic wings leveling junk in EECH, Comanche Gold, or Search & Rescue. I mean, there are ways of dealing with that, but it's not ideal and eventually will catch up with you when you do something like reaching the goofy pitch or roll angle limits. A stable LB2 that actually looked halfway decent and usable? That's definitely marketable. How hard could that be for a company when the core simulation is sound?


The source code is available if you want access to work on the flight model and improve it. Having a general moan about it being crap isn't going to get much done.

#4546136 - 11/26/20 02:03 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: Haukka81]  

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Hmm all he can do is walk into someone's apartment and #%&*$# in the center of the room. nothing else has done and will not do.

#4546144 - 11/26/20 03:30 PM Re: FLIGHT MODEL or where is it ? [Re: ]  
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It ain't your or anyone else's apartment, buddy.


The term "necroposting" was invented by a person with no social memory beyond a year. People with a similar hangup are those o.k. with the internet being transient vapor.

http://www.openfuelstandard.org/2011/12/methanol-wins-open-wager.html

Saitek X65 and X52, Glide, Winx3D, and GlovePIE Profiles http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=reticuli&CatID=miscmisc

http://library.avsim.net/register.php

X52 + Silicone Grease = JOY stick
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