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#4542890 - 10/31/20 09:12 PM Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 119
Sortofred Offline
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Sortofred  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 119
I have started a campaign with the Spad VIII and find it extremely difficult to fly especially in combat as it has a tendency to stall in level turns even when at full throttle and not necessarily pulling hard on stick, especially when in higher altitudes. In lower altitudes (3000 or less) it seems to do much better. My settings are for realistic flight model but auto mixture. Is it just a difficult pain to fly or is there something I'm missing?

#4542913 - 11/01/20 12:34 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Rick_Rawlings  Offline
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Posts: 3,704
Well, it certainly isn't a Nieuport and the advantages it has don't show up as much as they would in real life as you can't simply dive away most of the time, the AI will just follow you. I don't think I have ever seen an AI plane lose a wing in a dive (Although I have seen them shoot their own wing off, but that is another story.)

However, if you are careful, you can use your speed creatively to keep them at bay until the moment arrives to strike...and then miss because of the stupid gun sight!

Anyway, here's a couple of videos and a whole challenge thread you may want to peruse...




SPAD challenge

*edit: also, I did notice that you put SPAD VIII in your post, but am assuming you meant either a VII or XIII. If you didn't and there is such a thing as a SPAD VIII, please disregard everything I said...

Last edited by Rick_Rawlings; 11/01/20 12:41 AM.

The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4542914 - 11/01/20 12:42 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
Originally Posted by Sortofred
I have started a campaign with the Spad VIII and find it extremely difficult to fly especially in combat as it has a tendency to stall in level turns even when at full throttle and not necessarily pulling hard on stick, especially when in higher altitudes. In lower altitudes (3000 or less) it seems to do much better. My settings are for realistic flight model but auto mixture. Is it just a difficult pain to fly or is there something I'm missing?


Keep speed up and avoid fancy maneuvers with the Spads, unless you are in a dive while maneuvering. The Spads are largely “slash and dash” aircraft - although a smoothly flown Spad 7 is workable in dogfights.

If you prefer a wider taste of the Spad FM spectrum, you might want to try out the different HP variants available in my FM pack (ver. 6.0) for WOFFue/pe - linked to in my sig. file below.

Spad 7 150, 180 and 220 hp, as well as the Spad 13 200, 220, and 235 hp variants available there. My favorite is the 220 hp Spad 7, a real “pocket rocket” but rarer than hen’s teeth (somehow that came off as a mixed metaphor but, anyway, the FM pack is free and JSGME-friendly - simply load up and fly - and of course double-check the directions in the included “Read Me” file).

I’ll eventually get to a ver. 7.0 of the FM pack - bit busy with work currently (and have not forgotten about the novel either under the “casual campaigns” thread - all will be revealed eventually).

Happy flying fellow WOFFers,
Von S smile2


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4542915 - 11/01/20 12:44 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Fullofit Offline
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Fullofit  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Ajax, ON
I don't have anything constructive to add, except that I miss those challenges.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4542917 - 11/01/20 01:00 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Rick_Rawlings]  
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Posts: 119
Sortofred Offline
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Sortofred  Offline
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Posts: 119
Thank you all

#4542941 - 11/01/20 09:36 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 795
Albert Tross Offline
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Albert Tross  Offline
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Posts: 795
UK
For me the SPADs are the first aircraft where the increase in speed throughout the war starts to have an inevitable effect on manoeuvrability (some may say the Albatros but I still find them very flyable indeed).

So a change in tactics to boom and zoom may be required (not easy in single slow firing SPAD VII, hence in real life why they came up with the 37mm cannon version, but much more doable with the SPAD XIII). However I've found that after practice you can pull enough turn to get a bead on most of the aircraft your coming up against and the rest you can fly away from.

For me that's the joy/interest of this sim. It's flying the different types and coming up with tactics which work for each one.


"A great deal of an aeroplane could be holed without affecting its ability to fly. Wings and fuselage could be—and often were—pierced in 50 places, missing the occupants by inches (blissfully unaware of how close it had come until they returned to base). Then the sailmaker would carefully cover each hole with a square inch of Irish linen frayed at the edges and with a brushful of dope make our aircraft 'serviceable' again within an hour."
#4542942 - 11/01/20 09:38 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,352
lederhosen Offline
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lederhosen  Offline
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Posts: 1,352
Germany
If you have a lot of speed (diving) then you can turn quite well....but not for long.

At the mo I'm flying the Alb DV and all I can say is if the Spad 7's and N24's want to leave a fight they just start to climb away.
The Hun has no aircraft that can match the speed of climb of these evasive types.

You just have to know when to leave. If you cant get a definitive advantage within three tries then I'd start looking around for other options.

Last edited by lederhosen; 11/01/20 09:40 AM.

make mistakes and learn from them

I5 4440 3.1Ghz, Asrock B85m Pro3, Gtx 1060 3GB
#4542953 - 11/01/20 11:35 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Polovski Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
The SPAD XIII 220 HP is the fastest aircraft in the sim, so use that advantage, keep speed up at all times. Extend, climb, boom and zoom, rinse repeat. Do NOT get suckered into a turn fight.

SPAD 7 180 hp, is pretty fast too and uses the same tactics.



From Wiki,

"Like its successors, the S.VII was renowned as a sturdy and rugged aircraft with good climbing and diving characteristics. It was also a stable gun platform, although pilots used to the more manoeuvrable Nieuport fighters found it heavy on the controls."

The SPADs are tougher than most aircraft in the sim (except maybe the SE5a's) but turning is not a strength.





Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4543144 - 11/02/20 09:05 PM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 119
Sortofred Offline
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Sortofred  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 119
Thanks to all for the advice.... definitely not a fighter to get into a turning fight with!

#4543162 - 11/02/20 10:29 PM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,659
carrick58 Offline
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carrick58  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,659
Just my 2 cents, I lost a lot of good pilots and a few Aces to chasing e/a at low levels over enemy Air fields. Mostly in Spad VII's

#4543271 - 11/03/20 06:55 PM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: Sortofred]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
mandrews Offline
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mandrews  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Sortofred
I have started a campaign with the Spad VIII and find it extremely difficult to fly especially in combat as it has a tendency to stall in level turns even when at full throttle and not necessarily pulling hard on stick, especially when in higher altitudes. In lower altitudes (3000 or less) it seems to do much better. My settings are for realistic flight model but auto mixture. Is it just a difficult pain to fly or is there something I'm missing?


I almost wrote this exact same post a month or so ago. It seemed like in any fight, I'd put the SPAD into a spin or two. I took to flying it in QC just to get the hang of the plane. Flying level at full throttle and doing an aleron-only roll, I couldn't make it all the way around before the nose was pointing at the ground. To be fair, other planes will do the same thing; but the SPAD seems to go nose down sooner than most. In my current campaign, I asked for a SPAD. Got assigned to a squadron that's in transition from Nieuports and as the "new guy" I'm in a N17 at the moment -- a nice plane but definitely different than the SPAD. If I survive long enough for my SPAD to arrive, I'll work on the "boom and zoom" tactics.

@VonS, I'll try your flight models as soon as I can get an account created on CombatAce (waiting for approval at the moment).


i7-7700 @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, SSD (OS) + SSD (Games), GTX 1070 Ti, Acer Predator Z35p 3440x1440 GSync
#4543320 - 11/04/20 01:22 AM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: mandrews]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
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Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 936
Originally Posted by mandrews
@VonS, I'll try your flight models as soon as I can get an account created on CombatAce (waiting for approval at the moment).


No need for an account - I've placed the FMs at an alternate link on CombatAce requiring no login (alternate link approved by the site admins. over there, by the way).

Link to FM Pack:
https://combatace.com/forums/topic/92320-fm-tweaks-for-woffuepe/?tab=comments#comment-768452

Approximate service dates for added types and sub-types:
https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads....service-dates-for-tweaked-types-in-von-s

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2

Last edited by VonS; 11/04/20 01:32 AM. Reason: Fixed links.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4543455 - 11/04/20 10:25 PM Re: Difficulty with Spad VII and VIII [Re: VonS]  
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
mandrews Offline
Member
mandrews  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 221
South Carolina
Originally Posted by VonS
Originally Posted by mandrews
@VonS, I'll try your flight models as soon as I can get an account created on CombatAce (waiting for approval at the moment).


No need for an account - I've placed the FMs at an alternate link on CombatAce requiring no login (alternate link approved by the site admins. over there, by the way).

Link to FM Pack:
https://combatace.com/forums/topic/92320-fm-tweaks-for-woffuepe/?tab=comments#comment-768452

Approximate service dates for added types and sub-types:
https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads....service-dates-for-tweaked-types-in-von-s

Happy flying all,
Von S smile2


Thanks VonS. You are a gentleman and a scholar. salute


i7-7700 @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, SSD (OS) + SSD (Games), GTX 1070 Ti, Acer Predator Z35p 3440x1440 GSync

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