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#4541892 - 10/22/20 10:33 PM Interesting historical blunders  
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Found a couple of these interesting. I knew of the FW190 mistake, but this was the best account I’ve read.


https://historycollection.com/pilot...my-airfield-and-other-historic-mistakes/


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#4541896 - 10/22/20 11:03 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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lol. That German pilot didn't have his pilot license.


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#4541897 - 10/22/20 11:18 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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He flew well enough to beat and defeat an RAF Spitfire.


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#4541921 - 10/23/20 09:17 AM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Another blunder pertaining to this case. Imprisoned in Canada, Oberleutnant Armin Faber the hapless pilot managed to persuade the authorities that he suffered from epilepsy and was therefore repatriated in 1944, whereupon he returned to front-line fighter operations.



#4541924 - 10/23/20 10:53 AM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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The blunder that immediately comes to my mind is the friendly fire incident at the Battle of Chancellorsville where Stonewall Jackson was mistakenly shot and eventually killed by Confederate forces. The battle was a huge victory for the Confederacy but the loss of Jackson was crippling at the strategic level.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/23/20 10:54 AM.

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#4541948 - 10/23/20 02:53 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: BD-123]  
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Originally Posted by BD-123
Another blunder pertaining to this case. Imprisoned in Canada, Oberleutnant Armin Faber the hapless pilot managed to persuade the authorities that he suffered from epilepsy and was therefore repatriated in 1944, whereupon he returned to front-line fighter operations.


Really? Google him and what I found said he spent the rest of the war in a POW camp in Canada.

What you wrote remind me of this movie I watched on this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Werra



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#4541965 - 10/23/20 04:25 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Originally Posted by BD-123
Another blunder pertaining to this case. Imprisoned in Canada, Oberleutnant Armin Faber the hapless pilot managed to persuade the authorities that he suffered from epilepsy and was therefore repatriated in 1944, whereupon he returned to front-line fighter operations.


Really? Google him and what I found said he spent the rest of the war in a POW camp in Canada.

Wiki:
As a prisoner of war, Faber was sent to Canada where he attempted to escape from the prisoner camp. He was repatriated just before the end of the war due to ill health.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4541968 - 10/23/20 04:27 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
He was repatriated just before the end of the war due to ill health.



And yet he was still put into front line fighter operations before it was all over? Man, that crumbling Third Reich was still quite fast and efficient wasn't it? biggrin


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#4541982 - 10/23/20 06:21 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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The legless Douglas Bader tied sheets together and climbed out of a hospital window and crawled away.
He was caught later that day, but still that has to be embarrassing for his guard(s) at the hospital.

#4541984 - 10/23/20 06:33 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: wormfood]  
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Originally Posted by wormfood
The legless Douglas Bader tied sheets together and climbed out of a hospital window and crawled away.
He was caught later that day, but still that has to be embarrassing for his guard(s) at the hospital.



He was involved in numerous escape attempts up to the end, helping with the glider at Colditz.


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#4541985 - 10/23/20 06:55 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
The blunder that immediately comes to my mind is the friendly fire incident at the Battle of Chancellorsville where Stonewall Jackson was mistakenly shot and eventually killed by Confederate forces. The battle was a huge victory for the Confederacy but the loss of Jackson was crippling at the strategic level.


That incident turned the tide of the war in the North's favor, from which the South could never recover.

#4541993 - 10/23/20 07:43 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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So many blunders in military history. I can think of a zillion as most here can as well. I recall reading of a trooper at Bastogne, I believe it was, who went to retrieve his BAR that had been laid atop a stack of weapons of the other troopers who had climbed in the back of the deuce and a half. As they were disembarking, he grabbed the muzzle to slide it off the pile , but a bolt from a Springfield caught in the trigger guard, pulling the trigger and shooting him in the chest, dead.

For me though the one that troubles me as much as any other is Bull's Run at Leyte. It was such a monumental blunder, and so obvious that he was going after a decoy. That it happened at all is shocking to this day. And not only were there heavy, completely avoidable losses of men and ships, as tragic a consequence as that is, it robbed us armchair historians of the showdown between Musashi (if she had survived in this alternate history), Yamato and the Iowas.

I completely understand that wishing for death and destruction is reprehensible in the modern sensibility, and don't wish to argue that point and I reckon the folks around here understand where I am coming from. But this is the pinnacle of my naval curiosity, and to have had this clash of the Center Force and Task Force 34 occur would have been fascinating from that point of view. I know what I think would have happened, as I have debated it and voiced my view countless times through the years. From a clinical perspective though I feel like Halsey robbed those of us who are interested in this, the chance to know the outcome and settle the debate through his own stupidity, vainglory and arrogance. For me Halsey swept away his legacy with one of history's most blatant blunders. The world wonders, indeed!


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#4542036 - 10/23/20 11:27 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Good one DBond.

I remember my dad talking about that, he was on his way there in a Liberty ship when it happened.



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#4542038 - 10/23/20 11:29 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: wormfood]  
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Bader was certainly a very brave man, but to this day he remains unpopular within the RAF for his arrogance, misguided “Big Wing” strategy, and above all for his internal politicking (as a mere sqn ldr) which led to the ouster of the architects of our Battle of Britain victory, ACM Dowding and AVM Park.

#4542069 - 10/24/20 02:04 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: Nixer]  
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Originally Posted by Nixer
Good one DBond.

I remember my dad talking about that, he was on his way there in a Liberty ship when it happened.


Thanks and that's interesting he was there, or nearly so.

Halsey's blunder has been debated for a long time. It's often argued that he was only following his Academy training, the maxim to never divide your forces. That's sound advice. But Third Fleet was massive, so powerful in fact that I bet it alone was stronger than any one nation's entire navy, let alone a single fleet. Halsey could have chosen to detach TF 34 and still had a fleet more than capable of taking on Ozawa. In essence handling both tasks, without undue risk. But it's also often said that doing so would have removed Halsey from the carrier battle, his career-long desire, since he was embarked on New Jersey, and there was no guarantee that the First Striking Force would actually try to force San Bernardino Strait, possibly leaving Halsey without a battle at all.

But the Japanese did indeed come on, and with TF 34 not standing guard as they were off with Halsey, the rest is history. The entire affair is a mess of poor communication, lack of attention to details, mistaken assumptions, muddled command structure and at the top of the list is one man's search for his place in history. In my view he found it, but not perhaps as he would have wanted.

I said he swept away his legacy, and I know others will disagree with this point. He had accomplished much leading up to this. But combine this with his penchant for driving his fleets in to typhoons and I think his legacy is ruined. The blunder off Samar was so severe that it overshadows all he did before. He deserved all the criticism in my view. Halsey does seem to enjoy a good reputation today. In some way he is like Zhukov to me, a man whose legacy outshines his accomplishments, force of personality overcoming a middling ability.


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#4542076 - 10/24/20 03:52 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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As far as "Bulls Run" is concerned, you do have to remember that Halsey was in part reacting to criticism that had come the way of Spruance for not pursuing and destroying the Japanese carrier fleet at Philippine Sea.

As for the the 3rd Fleet handling both threats, we do have to be careful of using too much hindsight. American experience in 1942 and 1943 had shown a small strikes or even single aircraft could do significant damage to carriers, and Halsey could not be sure the decoy force was as toothless as it was in reality.

#4542081 - 10/24/20 04:06 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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True, and it has been said that things would have worked out much better if the commanders had been reversed for those two engagements. Probably true really.


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#4542083 - 10/24/20 04:43 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Well - the blunder did rob us of a battleship showdown. But instead we had Yamato and the entire battleline pretty much sent packing by half a dozen tin cans & a handful of planes in a show of bravery that doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

Can't help but believe that having Lee's battleships around wouldn't have made it much more enjoyable for the IJN ^^

Last edited by The_Admiral; 10/24/20 04:43 PM.
#4542084 - 10/24/20 05:27 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: The_Admiral]  
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Originally Posted by The_Admiral
Well - the blunder did rob us of a battleship showdown. But instead we had Yamato and the entire battleline pretty much sent packing by half a dozen tin cans & a handful of planes in a show of bravery that doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

Can't help but believe that having Lee's battleships around wouldn't have made it much more enjoyable for the IJN ^^



Agreed. Few military subjects interest me more than Leyte, and I'm happy to have steered some discussion in this direction. You bring up an interesting point Admiral. Some argue that had the battle taken place with Lee that the Japanese would have made a better account of themselves since Kurita's general attack order in the battle with Taffy 3 was the root cause of their failure to inflict a more punishing blow. They argue that a meeting of the battle lines would have seen more order and effectiveness from the Japanese fleet.

Without getting in to my analysis of the missed clash, I find it doubtful, but not without some merit. At the very least I think if Lee and Kurita had indeed met at the strait that the Japanese would have deployed their destroyers more effectively than they did in the battle with Sprague, and that would have made an impression.


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#4542116 - 10/24/20 10:09 PM Re: Interesting historical blunders [Re: Mike Dora]  
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Originally Posted by Mike Dora
Bader was certainly a very brave man, but to this day he remains unpopular within the RAF for his arrogance, misguided “Big Wing” strategy, and above all for his internal politicking (as a mere sqn ldr) which led to the ouster of the architects of our Battle of Britain victory, ACM Dowding and AVM Park.



Have you ever seen this? It gets really interesting at the 28:17 mark.



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