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#4541568 - 10/20/20 12:01 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond


Those '65 cars were fun to race, since they were easier to keep pointing the right way and as a result more cars stayed closer together.



I played both the 1965 and 1969 mods for GPL and if I remember correctly the 65 cars had about half the horsepower that the 67 cars had. The 69 cars had the same horsepower as the 67 cars but they had wings and thus a hell of a lot more downforce. Compared to the 67 cars, the 65 and 69 cars almost drove arcade-like. biggrin


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#4541572 - 10/20/20 12:55 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: Durrie]  
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Originally Posted by Durrie
Wasn't one of the marketing lines for GPL "In 1968 they made formula one safer. Welcome to 1967"


If it wasn't, it should have been. That's a great line:)

I think your assessment is spot on Panzer. '65 cars made about 200 Hp and '67 400 HP. The Cosworth DFV that was developed for Lotus (and is the subject of the 9 Days in Summer film I mentioned earlier) was a game changer. If I recall, this is Formula One's most successful engine of all time. But yeah, the combination of this power in very light cars, with no downforce and hard tires made the 1967 cars quite dangerous indeed. Papy may have made a mistake commercially, but for racing simheads they made the perfect call smile


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#4541574 - 10/20/20 01:08 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Papy may have made a mistake commercially, but for racing simheads they made the perfect call smile




It doesn't surprise me that the game didn't sell very well but have you ever seen any hard stats on how many copies it sold? I wonder if Papyrus actually lost money on the game.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4541575 - 10/20/20 01:15 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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I don't know the numbers, but I've always known it to be a flop commercially. Papyrus would fold soon after.

This is a good article from PC Gamer. While it doesn't give any figures, it also claims the game was a commercial failure.


https://www.pcgamer.com/why-i-loved-hardcore-racing-sim-grand-prix-legends/


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541576 - 10/20/20 01:19 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
I don't know the numbers, but I've always known it to be a flop commercially. Papyrus would fold soon after.

This is a good article from PC Gamer. While it doesn't give any figures, it also claims the game was a commercial failure.


https://www.pcgamer.com/why-i-loved-hardcore-racing-sim-grand-prix-legends/



Thanks for that link. I'll check it out.

No specific mention here about why Papyrus folded in 2004 but it seems once Kaemmer jumped ship then it was simply a matter of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_Design_Group


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4541605 - 10/20/20 04:52 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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The 65´s mod for GPL was a brilliant addition back then. Really loved the cars and the close racing with them!

On a side note: All that racing sim talk made me eager to finally getting back into the PC building business again to try out some of the more recent simulators.
And after nearly 10 years with my trusty, old Sandybridge i7 2600k system I´m now running a more recent i7 10700k system. biggrin

Apart from some of the latest Flightsimulators I will probably want to give this GPL-Mod for Asseto Corsa a try. Looks very polished and should run on modern Win10 system without a problem even with VR.
Stumbled on this mod watching another racer from old GPL days wondering how he was able to run such an old game looking so nicely and working in VR. ;-)
Here is the link to his video racing the Brabham at old Spa if someone wants to see and hear the mod in action:


Time is the only luxury.
#4541625 - 10/20/20 07:09 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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That looks and sounds fantastic Frank, and the mouselook/headtracking is icing on the cake, though it oddly tilts the view. Is that G-forces or something?

Whatever, GPL never looked so good that's for sure. Let me know what you think having given it a proper run. This thread lit my fire too, but I opted for modern F1 with F1 2020 and have a thread going about it. Just finished my race at Zandvoort, which has some crossover with GPL of course, as we had some good times there didn't we? The track has changed some, but once I learned the layout I was flying. Of course I have lots of grip don't I? smile


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541627 - 10/20/20 07:15 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Originally Posted by Durrie
Wasn't one of the marketing lines for GPL "In 1968 they made formula one safer. Welcome to 1967"


If it wasn't, it should have been. That's a great line:)

I think your assessment is spot on Panzer. '65 cars made about 200 Hp and '67 400 HP. The Cosworth DFV that was developed for Lotus (and is the subject of the 9 Days in Summer film I mentioned earlier) was a game changer. If I recall, this is Formula One's most successful engine of all time. But yeah, the combination of this power in very light cars, with no downforce and hard tires made the 1967 cars quite dangerous indeed. Papy may have made a mistake commercially, but for racing simheads they made the perfect call smile


The DFV either won or competed in its last race in 1982 I think. Can’t remember which. Either way, for an F1 engine to stay competitive for fifteen years, that’s impressive!


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4541636 - 10/20/20 09:34 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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That's about right Semmern. it was turbos that did the Cosworth in, and especially so at high altitude tracks like Kyalami.

Before its demise, the Cosworth powered 12 World Champions

I thought I'd have a look and see if 9 Days in Summer was free to watch, and sure enough, it is

https://vimeo.com/53036827

Any fan of Grand Prix Legends or classic Formula One should watch this film smile




It was Frank who introduced me to this, and he may have even mailed a DVD across the pond for me to see it. Thanks Frank!


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541640 - 10/20/20 10:37 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Of course I kicked back and watched it again. First time in years. Awesome.

Graham Hill took the Lotus with the DFV out and came back in to give his report and it's hard to hear exactly, but I think his assessment is

"It's got some poke. Not a bad old tool"

biggrin


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541645 - 10/20/20 10:55 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
That looks and sounds fantastic Frank, and the mouselook/headtracking is icing on the cake, though it oddly tilts the view. Is that G-forces or something?

Whatever, GPL never looked so good that's for sure. Let me know what you think having given it a proper run. This thread lit my fire too, but I opted for modern F1 with F1 2020 and have a thread going about it. Just finished my race at Zandvoort, which has some crossover with GPL of course, as we had some good times there didn't we? The track has changed some, but once I learned the layout I was flying. Of course I have lots of grip don't I? smile


Derek, he is using an Oculus Rift driving in a motion rig for that video. That probably explains the odd tilting views.There are definitely some forces at work here. biggrin

Will have to dust off my wheel, make room for my Oculus and setup the game again. But will keep you informed about my journey back into the1967´s. driving


Time is the only luxury.
#4541685 - 10/21/20 11:01 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Cheers chaps,

From wiki, GPL sold in the US a few thousand copies and i Europe mainly, by 2004 it had sold some 200.000 copies. Some voices even claimed that Sierra in Europe was not averse to a GPL II

From memory, Papy was owned by Sierra but was sold to Vivendi around the time that the license to Nascar games was lost to EA Games. There was really no sensible plan for Papy to continue operations, I think, because Papy’s main strength was clearly in driving sims and Nascar was at the time far more popiular than today, and IndyCar in decline due to the CART/IRL feud. I wouldn’t have minded an IndyCar/CART/IRL sim with GPL/NR engine from Papy though!

Consequently Dave Kaemmer who was aquianted with John M. Henry, owner of Boston Red Sox etc, left Papy and with financial help from John Henry secured the rights to the GPL software engine, to form the basis for iRacing.

A lot of the support structure for iRacing was developed using Nascar Racing 2003 Season and the Project Wildfire Sportscar Mod before switching over to original content and finally going public in 2008.


Jens C. Lindblad


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#4541687 - 10/21/20 11:07 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks for that info McGonigle.


The irony with NASCAR is that its popularity plummeted several years later just like IndyCar's did and in fact it plummeted so much that no serious NASCAR sim has been made for the PC since 2005 (Nascar SimRacing)! I think NASCAR racing games were even dropped from the consoles.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/21/20 11:09 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4543034 - 11/02/20 04:03 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Another blast from the past, in all its original (slightly modded) glory.

Attached Files Nurby_Horror.jpg
#4543060 - 11/02/20 01:09 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Ha! I remember that. That's what everyone looks like when they drive the BRM biggrin


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#4543062 - 11/02/20 01:12 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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I know it won't ever happen but I'd gladly pay 70 bucks or more for a "remastered" GPL with current DX 12 graphics and full multiplayer support (online careers/seasons in addition to single MP races).


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4543068 - 11/02/20 02:11 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Did you look at the video Frank (Nimrud) posted above of the '66 cars in Assetto Corsa? That I reckon is the closest we have to what you posted. Looks good.

But I agree and I'd pay that too for GPL with cutting edge graphics, widescreen and a new UI.

Just curious but did anyone watch the 9 Days in Summer film I linked to? Surprised no one commented since it's gold for fans of this era in racing.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4543142 - 11/02/20 08:45 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Did you look at the video Frank (Nimrud) posted above of the '66 cars in Assetto Corsa? That I reckon is the closest we have to what you posted. Looks good.

But I agree and I'd pay that too for GPL with cutting edge graphics, widescreen and a new UI.

Just curious but did anyone watch the 9 Days in Summer film I linked to? Surprised no one commented since it's gold for fans of this era in racing.



I would love a «remastered» GPL as well, but only if it preserved the feel of the original. I can instantly tell when I’m driving a Papyrus sim, be it GPL, NR2003 or iRacing. I still like the simplicity of the menus, so don’t go overboard in updating those either, if you can read this and you are Dave Kaemmer wink

I have watched Nine Days In Summer several times before. It is as good as ever. Love Graham’s comment after testing the 49 biggrin


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4543443 - 11/04/20 08:04 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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I know what you mean by the feel pf a Papyrus sim and you're right.

OK, I guess maybe folks had seen that film before, maybe? Worth a watch if not anyway.

The little kid in the swimming pool is of course future world champion Damon Hill.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
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