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#454058 - 12/10/06 10:57 AM Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  
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Robert Murphy Offline
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OK, maybe this belongs in the Turret Talk forum, but I like my chances better here--you guys seem more likely to respond, and respond with an informed answer. ;\)

I remember reading (where the #@%#@$#! was it) somewhere a fair ways back about a tactic supposedly employed by Sherman crews against the vastly superior Tiger or Panther. It goes something like this: unable to penetrate the enemy tank's armor, Sherman tank platoons would try to take advantage of their much greater numbers by all firing on cue, so that 3-5 AP shells would strike the enemy almost at once. (I.e., all within a 'split-second.') Supposedly, the cumulative force might be sufficient to cause a facing or cast turret to 'fail,' and thus force a breach (crack?) in the armor; a sort of 'Liberty Bell phenemonon' so to speak.

Well ladz, this does seem far-fetched: is this only a WWII 'urban legend' or is there actually some truth to this?

Anyone?

Robert


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#454059 - 12/10/06 05:30 PM Re: Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  
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Are you asking if it's true that they tried it, or if it's true that it would work?

If the former, I wouldn't be surprised.

If the latter, I think it is more or less on the level of trying to repeatedly hit the same spot in the armour: It just won't happen. The chances of getting a simultaneous hit are abysmally small.

They had more luck with maneuver: Decoy the tank, and try to outflank it.

NTM


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#454060 - 12/10/06 07:47 PM Re: Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  

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There's nothing really mysterious about homegenous plate cracking either as the result of culminating pressure or the single lucky hit- or at least, many sources corroborate this. The upshot is that Sherman crews typically had to close the distance under 500m, and moreover, with a decisive combat bonus in good, defensive terrain Tiger 'strong points' set up with lurking nearby anti-tank guns and tank destroyers supported with infantry could deliver a good shellacking on the flanking attacker.

Later analysis from captured Tiger II tanks demonstrated that German armor quality was declining. Weld seams might hold up, but where medium hardness plate was used, cracks and spalling became a greater problem.

#454061 - 12/10/06 08:59 PM Re: Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  
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Kepler Offline
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It find it somewhat hard to believe. It would require a level of tactical coordination, fire & targeting coordination and radio networking way beyond what you'd expect a WW2 tank unit to be capable of. Sure you can set up a handful of tanks and command them to fire at something at the same time...but have them hitting the same spot at the same instant - in combat, with all that entails? I dunno if even a modern-day tank unit would be able to pull off such a feat in the heat of combat.


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#454062 - 12/10/06 09:29 PM Re: Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  

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Well, it's not inconceivable, but in practice green, terrified crews add their own contribution to the matter; it would require tremendous discipline and may be the worst action under the circumstances. Suppose number two tank cannot draw a bead on the target that number three can see plainly: is number three supposed to hold fire while number two re-positions or otherwise manuevers to get a clear picture, only so that by this time the platoon is detected and wiped out? It does seem like the sort of far-removed instructions propounded by the brass in a WW2 training manual though- I wouldn't put it past 'em.

#454063 - 12/10/06 11:43 PM Re: Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  
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It doesn't work at all unless you're very close (in which case you can just as well outflank the vehicle and kill it from the side or rear). The reason simply is shot dispersion. Natural shot dispersion in WW2 was way too large to rely on anything but pure luck to hit the same spot within a few caliber widths repeatedly.

But you might attempt to overwhelm a tank with a high volume of fire even if it would hold against the shells. There's always a chance for a lucky punch. It doesn't make sense to hold back the fire of an entire platoon if there is a target that more than one tank can see. Plus you might rattle the enemy crew that they would no longer be able to fight back, or even disband their vehicle.
Slim chances maybe, but still better than having just one tank firing at the monster and hoping for the best while being decimated one by one.


So, yes I think that Sherman crews employed a tactic of simultaneous engagements on the same target - but not for the reasons given in the first post.


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#454064 - 01/03/07 02:12 AM Re: Does Anyone Have a Definitive Answer? Q? in re WWII Tank Combat...  
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This would be difficult indeed. View this video of Japanese MBT and see the tanks firing simultaniously (the 55 second mark). To fire and stike an exact location on the target at the same time appears next to impossible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSsGQlyzqJI&mode=related&search=

gx007


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