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#4540050 - 10/09/20 11:37 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond


We should start up a SimHQ Grand Prix Legends League eh? smile

..



Do you know if it's available on GoG or some other download service? I sold my CD for GPL a long time ago to someone on SimHQ.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4540069 - 10/09/20 01:22 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: Durrie]  
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Amazon has two used copies PM. At some point, GPL was acquired by a company called Sold Out Software. Not sure if they are still a thing, or how easy it might be to find a copy these days. I seem to recall that you could install the demo, then all of the tracks, and have a full copy that way, but I may be wrong.


Originally Posted by Durrie
I had a look at your Monster rank DB, and I was shocked, shocked I tell you, to find red squares !

I mean, how serious could you have been not to make sure you were negative in each combo...sheesh. behindcouch


Haha! Yeah, what a slacker eh? No surprise that the BRM is the one with the most reds. What a hunk of junk smile

Still, I manged to go green with all chassis at the Ring, and that's good enough haha.

Thanks for posting that and the head to head. When I first saw that I was like, no way, Durrie was way faster than a +22! It took me a minute to realize what I was looking at. Yeah, you were good at Mosport, I couldn't catch you there. Mosport is a great race track. I saw the positives in each of the stock tracks, but I liked some more than others. Mexico would have been my least favorite. Little flow to it, and all of those half-buried tires not only looked like sh!t, they were a hazard to my navigation.

I'll run the rule over them as we travel further down memory lane....

Kyalami -- It has the cloud over it for the horrific accident involving the safety crew. I can never get the video image of that out of my head. But the track itself is fantastic. A nice mix of turn types and some fast straights. Good flow. It was my very first experience in GPL and for that reason holds a special place. It was also the opening race to each historical season, so has special significance as it was always so highly anticipated. It is also the most difficult benchmark on GPL Rank.

Mexico -- Kyalami is first, and Mexico is the final race in a historical season. As mentioned this is my least favorite stock track. Never took to it. It's a long lap, and a difficult track for overtaking. In league terms though it was fun, as championships were decided here.

Monaco -- Oh man, Monaco. Mayhem ensues! Personally I really like this track, but it is so tight and technical, hardly anywhere to overtake, and any accidents in front are likely to collect you too, as there is no run-off. Still, it's a track that is so satisfying to master. To complete a GPL race here mistake-free is rewarding and none too easy! It's no coincidence that my personal PB came in the Brabham, as light and nimble as it is.

Monza -- What can you say about Monza? This is the old, but not too old layout. The '67 version didn't use the high banking, although that version is also available in GPL. Races here were always tense. The very high speed meant track position was paramount, and any mistakes or crashes cost gobs of time. It was well-suited to the Eagle and I had good results here. Lots of fun to drive as you're wide open much of the time. Some very tricky corners.

Mosport -- A track with plenty of flow and made a good racing track. Plenty of overtaking opportunities. Most tracks with sub-1:30 laptimes made for fun racing. Probably my worst track in terms of results, but I always had a great time running here.

Nürburgring -- Simply the best, most challenging race track I've ever driven. As much as I like other ones, nothing comes close to the Ring in terms of sheer challenge. This track by itself drove me to insane lengths of obsession. Countless laps, all in search of another tenth or two. Any mistake sucked since you had so long to go before the start-finish. Technical, demanding, dangerous. Races here were of a different sort. Being so long, it was rare you even had another car in view. It took immense concentration to run a race at the Ring. Along with my FWGPL titles, my personal best of 8:04 is the thing I am most proud of in my GPL career. But it was earned through countless hours of practice. When I think of Grand Prix Legends I think of the Ring. No track represents for me everything that was great about this sim like the Green Hell.

Rouen -- The one track that was not in the historical 1967 season, Lemans Bugatti was, and I think it was down to licensing issues that Papy used Rouen instead. I never took a complete shine to Rouen. That hairpin caught me out more than once and in my hazy memory it seems that Rouen was the scene of many of my league heartbreaks. It was not a great racing track due to the nature of the corners, but a good test nonetheless. I seem to recall Durrie would pass me in the hairpin the bastage.

Silverstone -- The old airfield layout. Silverstone was pretty high speed, with plenty of room to race and run off making it fairly forgiving. In some ways it was rather vanilla or generic as many or most dead-flat tracks were for me. We had some great racing here though. the benchmark is one of the most generous too. I had more fun racing at some of the add-on English tracks like Brand's Hatch and Goodwood. Still, Silverstone saw plenty of action and made for close finishes.

Spa-Francorchamps -- Good god, man. An insane track that would be outlawed today. Incredibly dangerous but so much fun to race. The second-longest lap by some margin, it was very high speed and technical at the same time. Turn and braking points had to be nailed or you'd be off and dead (or shift-R as the case may be). Another track that suited the Eagle well, and I Ioved racing at Spa. It is also one of the tracks with some great footage in the movie Grand Prix, as well as the scene of some of F1s most tragic history. It also holds a special place for me as the Eagle-Weslake's only Formula One victory. Dan Gurney for president!

Watkins Glen -- The only track in this list I have driven in real life. I love this track, and the surrounding region in New York. I've spent many weekends fishing in the Finger Lakes and always make it a point to stop by the track for a visit. As for GPL, the short laps make for great racing. Fantastic flow. One of my best tracks, but Frank would simply crush me here in any car. It became my GPL test track as it's such a joy to drive and laps so short. No way to know, but I reckon I've turned more laps at the Glen than any other track in GPL.

Zandvoort -- A track like no other. It was not a great racing track. Very tight and technical, difficult to overtake. But of all GPL tracks, Zandy had the best flow. Driving here was like skiing, slaloming back and forth almost imperceptibly. I loved driving here. A classic track and there's some awesome footage here in a short film called 9 Days in Summer, which detailed the development of Lotus' Cosworth engine. And it has Jim Clark. 'Nuff said. Any GPL fan should watch this.




Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4540198 - 10/10/20 06:27 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Nice descriptions, DBond. The Ring is in a league of its own, but I think my favourites are pretty much the same as yours. Zandvoort and the Glen. Both require you to maintain a certain flow, and if you mess up one corner your line is off for several more. When you get it right, the «dance» on the pedals as you nudge the nose of the car around with the wheel and hold the four-wheel drift just so is very satisfying!


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4540214 - 10/10/20 10:24 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Those were the days!


After scratching my head and getting the grey cells aligned, I found the old Rank account and the logon credentials, and after yet more intellectual excertion I had logged on and then figured out how to produce those nice-looking tables of the rank and monster rank.

Initially I was quite sceptical about purchasing GPL back in the day, when by chance I encountered a copy of it in a local shop. I decided to give it a go even if my expectations were low. I did not know about any of the acclaim and rave that surrounded this sim at that time. I literally did not know I had bought a gem and a classic.

I too became obsessed for a couple of years, mainly working on my rank in hotlapper mode or short races with with the AI. There was something uniquely fascinating with seeing my name alongside those of Brabham, Clark, Rindt, Stewart, Hill, - and even Surtees, who always was a quite forceful driver in GPL.

One of my absolute favourite tracks was the one that did not appear in the real ´67 season; Rouen. I adored that circuit, it really gave me a buzz, the downhill sweepers towards the hairpin, the high speed turns and kinks where you absolutely had to get the line and speed just perfect or else you ended up in the ditch against some trees, very far from the apex. For a couple of years I had a tradition of spending New Year's Eve there, trying to perfect my laps.

Zandvoort was great, a short lap and those fast switchbacks, drifting from one turn to the next.

I hated, hated Spa because I thought it was so hard to get into a rythm there and crashes were so enormous and violent; once I flew off the track like a missile and landed amongst the railway tracks outside the track boundaries. On another location I blasted, full throttle never lifting off, into the first of the two lefthanders at La Carriere I think it is called.

And Masta. Don't mention Masta.....

Nürburgring was another kind of Hell. Derek describes it so well, I nearly went into hysterics when I crashed early in a lap and had to do another full warm-up lap before I could have another go at a timed one. When it worked however, and I fell into a trance, the zone, it was magical. Until I woke up and realized I was now intellectualizing what had until this point been pure muscle memory and intuition. Crash! Bonk! Ohhhh Shute.

The Glen another short track and I think my very first session in GPL, I had there. Didn't make it out of the pits before spinning due to too much pressure with the right foot. The track will always remind me of Oct. 6th, 1973.


It was through our mutual love for GPL that many of us met and became virtual friends. An experience I wouldn't be without.


One day I found I'd had enough. I was involved in several sims, leagues, betatests, writing and I didn't want to drive in virtual circles anymore. It was no longer good fun but more an extra (unpaid) job. I was burned out. There was more to life. So I retired.

On very rare occasions I fire up the old girl and do a couple of very slow laps, way off my old pb's and just totter about a bit.

Attached Files rank.jpgmonster.jpgoverall.jpgHotel.jpg

Jens C. Lindblad


Sent from my Desktop
#4540218 - 10/10/20 11:44 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Thx all for the memories! thumbsup

Tried the GPL Demo on a friend´s system back in 1998. Couldn´ t manage to finish even one lap even though I could try it with a Thrustmaster wheel.

Gave it another shot in 2000 when the full game came on a CD with one of the popular German game magazines. Got hooked, ran out to purchase a cheap Microsoft wheel which then started the neverending cycle to invest in more expensive racingsim hardware (wheel/pedals) to find more tenths on the virtual tracks. Only to realize it was talent (or lack of) and seat time which made a real difference! biggrin

My first ever online race was a full grid 1h event in a Ferrari on the old Nurburgring. I was literally shaking before the flag dropped. My only goal was to finish and not ruin the race of any of the other participants.

Met Derek, Mark and other Frugalites to do the weekly CTD races with GPL and Jens and semmern in the ADC GPL events all those years ago. Though I met many other current or former SimHQ members in many different other racing sims over the years and enjoyed the experience the GPL magic was never really replicated.

Stopped my virtual racing "career" basically because my old i7 system from 2011 wasn´t really up to the challenge of modern sims any longer and I didn´t want to invest the time required to be consistent and mildly competitive in any league environment anymore.

A real eyeopener and one of the best experiences in front of a monitor for me was driving the Lotus 49 on classic Rouen, Spa and Monza in Project Car 2 with an Occulus Rift in VR! That was basically a GPL dream finally coming true! driving

Attached Files GPL MonsterRank.jpg

Time is the only luxury.
#4540222 - 10/10/20 12:44 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Wow, where to begin?! Just great seeing Jens and Frank in this thread. It's funny but I was planning to post something like "Enjoy it while it lasts, because if Frank gets wind of this thread all of our laptimes will be put to shame" haha! Yeah, we had great times racing back then, which was due more to the quality and character of the men than the racing itself. I really could not have lucked in to a better group of guys. Polite, passionate, sporting. This was what made the whole thing greater than the sum of its parts.

Thanks Jens and Frank for posting up your laptimes. Are my eyes deceiving me? Was I faster at the Ring than Frank? Something must be wrong there. Your monster crushes mine there, but my PB is better? That cannot be true! Your results show how talented each of you were (are). GPL was terribly difficult, and these sort of laptimes reveal extraordinary skill. Both of you would be too modest to say so, so I will smile

Frank is simply the finest virtual racer I encountered during my 'career'. So fast in fact, that he purposely chose the worst cars to run in the league, simply to give us mere mortals a chance. I brag about my league titles, but honestly it would not have been possible had Frank simply chosen a more capable car. We used to throw around the term 'alien' to describe the fastest drivers, and as fast as the rest of us were, Frank was the real alien. We were all running Eagles, Lotii, Brabhams and Fezzes, while Frank ran the Coop, BRM and the White Whale (Honda), cars that were in no way on the same level. Who does that?!

I know what you mean about the racing hardware. I liked that old red Momo Force. In the end I bought three of them, all of which I still have and use it with my son to turn laps in Assetto Corsa and Euro Truck Simulator lol. I had three so if anything went wrong with one, there would be nothing to stop me from showing up on Saturday night (Sunday morning for Mark). You guys might remember I even ran one race when I was away on a fishing vacation at Art's house, who coincidentally lived a few miles from the Glen. Nothing could stop me from participating! That was Zandvoort. I can't recall what happened yesterday, but I can remember details of our GPL league from fifteen years ago!

Thanks to Butts for igniting this trip down the lane. Great reconnecting with you guys and reliving the good old days. Now where's Jussi?





Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4540224 - 10/10/20 12:50 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: McGonigle]  
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Originally Posted by McGonigle


It was through our mutual love for GPL that many of us met and became virtual friends. An experience I wouldn't be without.



Well said Jens and I completely agree! What is the aggregate of your PBs, your 'rank'? Frank what is yours? I see your monster, but what is your aggregate rank delta?

Quote
Zandvoort was great, a short lap and those fast switchbacks, drifting from one turn to the next.


Few parts of any track more perfectly illustrate the notion that you steer with the pedals than Zandvoort's switchbacks.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4540228 - 10/10/20 02:12 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
...What is the aggregate of your PBs, your 'rank'? Frank what is yours? I see your monster, but what is your aggregate rank delta?



Derek, the overall best rank is also shown in the picture Jens and I posted. Mine is -46,xx in the mighty Lotus 49. The best car of the 67´s season if mechanical reliability hadn´t been an issue. ;-)


Time is the only luxury.
#4540231 - 10/10/20 02:23 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Ah yes, I see that now. And actually, you are three tenths faster than that, as your Spa PB is actually in the Eagle smile

#%&*$# aliens!

And Jens is actually shown too at -26. Never mind that question....


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4540281 - 10/10/20 08:12 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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A lap around the Ring in the Lotus 49. This is great driving, and his lines are nearly perfect. Really nice driving here





I was reflexively feathering the throttle watching this lol


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4540353 - 10/11/20 09:34 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Wow, hey Frank, hi Jens wave2

Great to see you fellas again.

DB, thanks for the run down on your track thoughts. Brings it all back.

I knew Mosport wasn't my only success. I've had to look deeply and concertedly, but I managed to find another. My Lotus time at Silverstone is another career highlight yep but thats it. There are no others.

We';re in the middle of a house move, so when I get my rig set up again, I'm thinking I'm going to have to fire up GPL. I've ordered a HP Reverb G2, so when I get my man cave organised, I can't think of a better why to christen it.



Attached Files GPLRank_Durrie_v_DB.jpg
Last edited by Durrie; 10/11/20 09:37 AM.
#4540354 - 10/11/20 09:41 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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I also managed to retrieve a screen shot of from one of our GTR2 outings.

MtPanorama in the Aussie V8 supercars as I remember. I saved this one to remind me that even Aliens can push it too far at times alien

Attached Files Frugs_GTR2_MtPan1.jpg
#4540361 - 10/11/20 12:39 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Haha, Frank is taking an interesting line there biggrin

Did he say he was on a flying lap?


You've a lot of fantastic laptimes even if I managed to go a touch better on some. I'd like to see this same head to head comparing my laps to Frank's. Wish I could figure out my GPL Rank log in troubles. Have not heard back from the admin there.

So all this racing talk had me having a look around, and I finally pulled the trigger on Codemaster's F1 2020 which has been on the wishlist for ages waiting for a sale. And I paid full price, rarely do, but I watched a few videos from the in-car camera and I just had to give it a go. Downloading now.

There's also a GPL Demo 2020 version out now. I may just give that a go as well.

http://www.gplworld.de/en/grand-prix-legends/gpl-2020-demo


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4540975 - 10/15/20 03:27 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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It's not GPL related, but is Ring-centric smile

I thought I'd share a link to a great ESPN article they put up recently about Toto Wolff's attempt to set a lap record there. Most know him as the team principle for Mercedes F1, and he usually gets interviewed after the races. Always a good interview.

In 2009 he attempted to set a new lap record in a 911 RSR and it ended badly.

The stupidest thing I've ever done'...record and huge crash at the Nurburgring


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541022 - 10/16/20 01:32 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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That was a great read. I knew Toto had been a driver, but I didn't know he made that attempt.

I like Lauda's view on Toto's desire to get the record "why would you do that? I think its idiotic" LOL

Did you have any joy getting your GPLRank log-in sorted out?

Last edited by Durrie; 10/16/20 01:32 AM.
#4541055 - 10/16/20 12:17 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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When it was all said and done I reckon Wolff rather agreed smile

Still it takes balls to go flat out like that around the Ring. Did you watch the onboard? Lucky to have lived he is.


No, I haven't sorted the GPL Rank log in. I had sent an email to an address I found on the site but yet to hear back. The fellow who runs it is also a member in a different forum I am on, for a very different sort of game. I cannot recall which one. I think maybe it's the Matrix site for Grigsby's War in the East. Maybe I could contact him that way through PM if I can work it out.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541098 - 10/16/20 06:54 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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I got it sorted Mark. I re-sent the email to a different addy and one of the admins sent me an email showing both of my logins that I made. As soon as I saw the username of the second one I gave it a go and I'm in. I am AMAZED at all the names on my buddies list and the memories that come flooding back. So many of these cool dudes had slipped from it, but now I remember them all. Sadly, my friend Art who you might recall passed a few years ago. he is on the list.

I am second fastest on the list behind you know who. Even Brooks is there with his +313 rank delta biggrin

Names like Vlad, Bungle, Kees Kasper, Laurent Vaisman, Steve Gamble, and many more. So cool.

Man the '65 benchmarks must have been hard! I am negative but by the slimmest of margins at -.059 haha

Frank of course is 13 seconds faster. Wow, so awesome to have this all at my fingertips once again.

My last submitted lap was 7/7/07 at 7 PM smile


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541367 - 10/19/20 09:46 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Glad you got it sorted out DB.

I too was reminded of the groups of people that put in all that effort. I think I still have a rather frightening selfie that Laurent sent us. Its taken quite a while to get over the horror.

My '65 rank is non existent as far as I know. I'll have to check it, but I know I struggled with those cars more than the '67s.

I have to tell you how very sorry I am to read your post above about Art's passing. I only knew him briefly, that is as far as you can know anyone online, but I liked him a lot, and he was a friendly and pleasant fellow. My condolences to you and those that knew him well.

#4541389 - 10/19/20 12:42 PM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Thanks Mark, he is missed, a great guy.

Those '65 cars were fun to race, since they were easier to keep pointing the right way and as a result more cars stayed closer together. I drove a Brabham for that league season. I see now that there are many mods and car sets for GPL, covering quite a range of seasons. But nothing I reckon quite matches those '67 cars, which were the end of an era before the advent of downforce witchcraftery and as the original set the 67's are the gold standard. I saw once an interview with David Kaemmer where he said Papy probably made a mistake simulating the '67s, by which I think he meant that because they were so difficult to drive that a lot of potential players were either missed, or lost soon after they tried it. Looking back now though I'm glad they did, as the difficulty is a big part of why GPL is so special. When I look at the laps I ran, and the races I won, it's something to be proud of because it's not something everyone can do, if I may be so humble smile


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4541524 - 10/20/20 01:26 AM Re: Grand Prix Legends. Were you fast? [Re: DBond]  
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Wasn't one of the marketing lines for GPL "In 1968 they made formula one safer. Welcome to 1967"

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