Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,489PanzerMeyer
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PanzerMeyer
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King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,489
Miami, FL USA
Any death is sad but considering the average life span for rock musicians who lived the stereotypical "life in the fast lane", 65 is actually quite good.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/08/2012:48 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Just to connect the two RIP threads as the one in CH will likely scroll off into the sunset much sooner with forum activity... Eddie Van Halen...RIP
Listening to even more VH than usual lately, might need to get their last two albums which are missing in my collection: Van Halen III, A Different Kind of Truth.
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Discography:
Van Halen (1978) Van Halen II (1979) Women and Children First (1980) Fair Warning (1981) Diver Down (1982) 1984 (1984) 5150 (1986) OU812 (1988) For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge (1991) Balance (1995) Van Halen III (1998) A Different Kind of Truth (2012)
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
EDIT: VH seldom gets mentioned as a positive for late-80's Rock (I forget myself).
Last edited by MarkG; 10/19/2008:49 PM. Reason: Switched studio to live version
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
^ The concept is cool but I couldn't go along with ditching Mike. Plus, I'm kinda funny with the generation of rockers on stage (unless a tribute/cover). Same with the audience, at least the majority.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,859RedOneAlpha
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RedOneAlpha
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Originally Posted by MarkG
^ The concept is cool but I couldn't go along with ditching Mike. Plus, I'm kinda funny with the generation of rockers on stage (unless a tribute/cover). Same with the audience, at least the majority.
I don´t think the Idea was to replace Mike, he was ok on letting Wolfgang Van Halen play on this tour. Only grip I have is Daves voice sucks!
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Enjoyed my recent VH marathon including 10 full albums + Greatest Hits (including a couple of newer DLR songs that I thought were pretty good at the time).
I've said it here many times...I think the 70's was the best decade in Rock. Early VH is the best VH as is usually the case with most bands, when they're still so young and hungry for success. VH's debut album was IMO, never matched, even as much as I love 1984 and the follow-up 'Van Hagar' albums. Jamming to "Little Dreamer" I as type this.
==========
My favorites from DLR (6 albums) in alphabetical order...
Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love And the Cradle Will Rock... Beautiful Girls Bottoms Up! Dance the Night Away Drop Dead Legs Eruption Everybody Wants Some!! Feel Your Love Tonight Hot for Teacher Ice Cream Man I'll Wait Intruder / (Oh) Pretty Woman Jamie's Cryin' Jump Little Dreamer Little Guitars (with Intro) Mean Street Panama Runnin' with the Devil Somebody Get Me a Doctor Take Your Whiskey Home Top Jimmy Unchained Where Have All the Good Times Gone! You Really Got Me You're No Good
There are other hits like "So This is Love?", "On Fire" and "Dancing in the Street" that didn't make my 'best of' cut, but I don't skip them either. Same with non-hits "Women in Love", "Light Up The Sky" and "In a Simple Rhyme", or all the rest of 1984. And there's more that could be listed, very few I pass over (could never skip "Happy Trails", what an iconic ending to an album).
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That said, I never understood the dislike some fans have of Sammy Hagar Van Halen ('Van Hagar'). Those 4 albums are freaking packed with great songs, IMO!...
316 (short instrumental, should have also noted DLR's "Cathedral"). 5150 Aftershock Amsterdam Best Of Both Worlds Black And Blue Cabo Wabo Can't Stop Lovin' You Doin' Time/Baluchitherium [Instrumental] Don't Tell Me (What Love Can Do) Dreams Feelin' Feels So Good Finish What Ya Started Humans Being (single from Twister soundtrack). Love Walks In Not Enough Poundcake Right Now Runaround Summer Nights Take Me Back (Deja Vu) The Seventh Seal Top Of The World When It's Love Why Can't This Be Love
Plus a couple of Sammy's singles that VH covered in concert: There's Only One Way To Rock Eagles Fly
Yeah, there's a couple of "love songs" in there (sung by a dude getting backstage groupie hummers every night during Eddie's solo), but as a fan of pre-VH Sammy (as well as post-VH Diamond Dave), I think those lovey songs originated more from the 'piano player' who married America's sweetheart!
Think about it...the new guy comes into the band and his last name isn't "Van Halen", just how much influence would he have? The VH brothers were always the bosses, I think Hagar was just along for the ride. But what a ride, it's *all* good IMO (except maybe the last two albums [post-Sammy] which I'm still procrastinating on).
Last edited by MarkG; 10/23/2012:14 AM. Reason: small stuff
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Having listened through all of my VH twice now, I'd forgotten just how good the 4 albums are between their debut and 1984...
Van Halen II (1979) Women and Children First (1980) Fair Warning (1981) Diver Down (1982)
<reusing pic of my DLR VH CDs...>
Even the goofier stuff like "Big Bad Bill (Is Sweet William Now)" just works as a complete fun album, very enjoyable.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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RedOneAlpha
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Sometimes it´s just about the lineup...
To me, this makes more sence, but personally for me Van Halen was more of a unique band, with unique band memebers that just can´t be replaced.
Would Queen be the same without Fredy, or would Motorhead be the same without Lemmy? More even, would Van Halen be the same without Eddy? The frontman is the counterstone of a band, change the frontman and it´s a whole new band. At least till fans get used to it, and that´s if some ever do get used to it!
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It's a shame I never gave Chickenfoot a listen, and with Will Ferrell on drums! I really need to fix this, would be nice to add to my large but stagnant music collection.
All I know is that, as a fan of pre-VH Sammy, I couldn't think of anyone better for the band to acquire as their new singer. Plus he could hold his own when guitar dueling with Eddie on stage (see VH concert versions of Sammy's "There's Only One Way To Rock").
And what the hell is "Cabo Wabo" anyway? A dance? A drink? A bar? An intoxicated stumbling walk? A lifestyle of eating tacos and drinking tequila on a beach? A Van Halen song? All of the above?
Definitely my favorite from Sammy Van Halen...
Van Halen - Cabo Wabo (Live In Fresno, CA, USA 1992) WIDESCREEN 1080p...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Since I'm praising Sammy in my above post (and if you don't like those two, you're obviously not a fan of 'Van Hagar'), I also want to give Dave his due with the two songs VH released for their 1996 Greatest Hits (part of the strife with Sammy, IIRC...I purchased the Hits CD for these two and "Humans Being")...
Different situation, but to me they were on par with Metallica's "No Leaf Clover" and "Human" on their 1999 S&M, new songs that weren't quite as good as their older stuff but not bad either.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,859RedOneAlpha
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Mind you, it´s not that I don´t like Sammy Hager, he´s alright on his own. I just don´t see him fit for VH because his voice/style has nothing to do with DLR.
To be honest, almost any singer would stand out with a power trio like VH, but that dosent mean it´s the right one for the band.
On the other hand, I really like the first two albums DLR did with Steve Vai. I found that to be a great mix because the whole band was a fun band, and that kind of fit with Daves personality, and the "party" band image that VH also gave. But the later album with Jason Becker just didn´t cut it for me, Becker wasent at the same level as Vai or Eddy and the fun factor was also gone, the magic just vanshid.
True that alot of VH fans didn´t like DLR solo albums because they were not as heavy as what he did with VH, but at least he had another six string wonder in his band, aside from Billy Sheehan´s wizardry on bass.
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As much as I love early VH including Dave's last VH album 1984 (along with its campy music videos: "Jump", "Panama" and "Hot For Teacher"), I don't believe that a DLR-fronted VH would have survived the backlash of the early-90's. But giving us 6 great albums, what an accomplishment (I feel the same way about early Rush)! The bands and the times move on...
As different as it was with Sammy, I thought 5150 (1986) was a *fantastic* album (I believe the first song I heard was "Best of Both Worlds"). I liked VH's new grungier sound (before we used the word "grunge"?) which was slightly ahead of its time (ending with Balance [1995]). What sold me on 'Van Hagar' was renting a concert VHS tape from Blockbuster, possibly their first tour with Sammy. "Summer Nights" clinched it for me.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
From what I can tell, the concert I watched was called "Live Without a Net" (1986...although our first VCR was a wedding present from my MIL: 1/9/88). EDIT: Also rented Rush's "A Show of Hands" (1989) VHS and watched my first full Rush concert.
I'm pretty sure this is from the concert video that sold me on Sammy...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Tonight I'm going to flip though my wife's book "Losing It" (Valerie Bertinelli) as she thinks I'll find the Ed/VH stuff interesting. She's a fan of Valerie's (and friend Rachael Ray's) Food Network shows.
Man, that would be a blast! A tribute show is about celebrating the music together with a crowd, the guys on stage being the biggest fans. And now a tribute of VH is all we have. But those guys are good (YT never does justice).
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,859RedOneAlpha
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The media is the one to blame, it´s always the media! Get air-play 24/7 and you may suck but at the end of the month everyone knows about you, and probably even like what you do and buy your records!
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I don't know, Red. It's true that back in the day only popular music (of any genre) would make it on the radio and then later you could watch music videos on MTV if you had cable. I remember all the AC/DC, Styx, Journey, Foreigner, even Rush getting constant airplay on my local Rock stations (yes, more than one) in the early-to-mid 80's. You'd buy the album and go to the concert if you could afford to.
VH got decent radio play prior to 1984 but 1984 (album) was crazy popular on the radio at the time, as was Purple Rain and the earlier Back In Black and Thriller.
To me, most music getting airplay was popular *because* it was good, the media at the time being a strong filter that we don't have today with (to me) overwhelming choices. I personally don't do well with too many choices (glad I found love pre-internet ). I need a filtered or at least a limited selection to choose from else I drown in decisions. Plus, back in the day LPs and concerts cost as I recall ~$10.00 for the music, ~$20.00 for the show, so you had to be selective. That's all changed today, of course. I don't think media even matters anymore, been a long time since I've listened to the radio and even longer since watching a music video on TV (with the internet you can find whatever you want at any time).
But what do I know, I'm still trying to see Night Ranger/Winger, so those with more discerning non-mainstream tastes might see things differently.
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On a similar note, I still listen to 80's hair bands, even the ones many Rock fans despise. Truth is, those bands are all 1 to 3 hit wonders (usually including a power ballad that I may or may not have a memory connected with), the rest I can't even tolerate. A good example was purchasing Ratt's "Invasion of Your Privacy" (1985) which includes only 2 songs I like (3 total from Ratt [although no ballads], the third from another album). Not even enough for half a Greatest Hits, the album purchase was a waste. Same with Winger, only 2 songs. That was a lesson learned, that I don't really like these bands, just a couple of popular radio hits, the rest like getting a root canal.
Then you have bands like Journey where the most popular song on the album might be one of my least favorites ("Don't Stop Believin'" off Escape). But I still enjoy their entire albums (also Foreigner), unlike the true hair bands.
So pre-internet, media filtering worked well IMO, unless you dislike all things popular/mainstream.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,489PanzerMeyer
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PanzerMeyer
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Originally Posted by MarkG
To me, most music getting airplay was popular *because* it was good, .
For the most part, this is true and it applies to all genres of music. For example, take Beetthoven's "Ode to Joy", Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos" or "Ride of the Valkyries" by Richard Wagner. Even people who don't listen to classical music will almost certainly recognize these pieces of music when they hear them. Why are these still remembered several centuries after they were written? For whatever psychological or philosophical reason you can come up with, these pieces of music "connected" with audiences at a visceral level and thus why they are still played today. At the other end of the spectrum, I can give you a laundry list of composers from the classical era who have been largely or almost totally forgotten.
In another category, you have music which was insanely popular at the time of its release but by now it has been largely forgotten. In other words, the music didn't stand the test of time and it was music that was popular because it simply came out at the right time and connected with the current day "zeitgeist".
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Stuff like this is inevitable. All forms of entertainment which include films, music, tv shows, etc. all go through different up and down trends as audiences themselves change over time.
And of course, what happened to grunge? It petered out by about 1996 or so.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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I dropped playing when I started to work inside the music Industry, because unfortuntately everything is not as gold as you might think at first glance...
Labels and band managers for the most part don´t care how good or bad you are! It´s a business, and it´s ALL about making money, and even at times about losing it! They decide who is gonna make it or not, and for how long, and if your not good enough but you have other qualities of interest, they will take care of you to make you better!. They control the media (radio/TV/web/magazines and the CD/LP/DVD etc. distribution routes. They will even invest in bands that wont make it so they can lose money because they need to washout money that year because of taxes. Those bands are burnt without even hitting the stage once! End of the dream kids! Tendencies, how are they made? We all know how and this is the same thing with music.
While indi lables have been for the better now days, the big lables are still in control and are were the big money is. In the US you do have a bit more freedom with airplay, but other countrys were the top 40 radio stations are controled by BIG media companies, you end up paying BIG money to be on air, this could be in the realms of €12,000 a week! Who has this money? Not indi labels, but the big labels. I could go on with this alot longer but I´ll jump to something else, but I wil say this, so many awesome bands that never made it is not a coincidence. I have seen it, and I have spoken with alot of bands that I wont even get into.
Then we have what in a way is called music psychology, it has another name to it but I forgot. This has to do with those top of the list HITS, or top sellers! This study is all about what notes/chords will ring a bell to you thus making that music more joyful to you. We have all been sung songs in our infancy, unconsciously we relate to those sounds (songs/chords/notes melodies) which in a way make up our musical taste as we mature. Usually these are notes in the major scale, and some are, more porminent then others, or we recall to them more then others. This has been studied for many years and dedicated compsosers know how to use this to there advantage. If you add this to a repeated cycle (on going air play in a varaity of media) you then have even the most hardcore fan singing a Prince or Michael Jackson song chorus without knowing it!
Now Iam not saying there´s not gifted/talented people musicaly, all the opposite, Iam saying there´s a bunch that never got a chance and that beat those who did! Did those talent agents miss them, or was it something else? Don´t want to sound rude but music and prostitution are about the oldest entertaiment trades of human kind, as such one can expect anythig and ALL kind of buisness practices. As Ozzy´s album, "No Rest for the Wicked"
While my dream faded, I still enjoy searching and finding new music now days. The indi scence along with free-royalties options/ control by bands have opened the world of music alot these last two decades and for the good we can now enjoy alot better music and more freely, but the big industry giants are still there.
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I loved late-80's Rock with Van Hagar, Aerosmith, Guns N' Roses, Rush (a new sound w/Presto), Living Colour, R.E.M...just off the top of my head. As well as Alternative Rock from Edie Brickell (who's look was copied by Eddie Vedder ). Most continued into the 90's with even grungier sound (albums Counterparts [1993], Monster [1994] and Balance [1995] come to mind). I had gotten what I needed from typical 80's Rock (the right music at the right time) and embraced the change.
Then in the early-90's we had the darker more serious sounds of Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains and STP. Nirvana was a bit too punkish for my tastes but I listened to them anyway, getting my virtuoso guitar solo fix with Pearl Jam. And like you said, by 1996 or so it was done (but still lasting longer than New Wave?).
I think age became a factor (was going on 30 in '96), feeling like my music collection was large and diverse enough, mostly complete. And now I'm wondering what I missed out on because I never gave it chance...
Van Halen - 05 Fire In The Hole (Live in Australia 1998)...
Last edited by MarkG; 10/26/2004:24 PM. Reason: combined posts
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
I wonder what the break down is among Rush fans who liked the stylistic changes that Rush went through and those who didn't care for the changes at all? For example, compare the albums "A Farewell to Kings" and "Signals". The two albums were only 5 years apart but man, the change in style is really huge.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,859RedOneAlpha
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Age just has me winding back to the 60´s, 70´s and 80´s. And something very missed by some, the production value of those days records is unparalleled IMO.
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The problem is that we won't all agree on what sucks. I remember my neighborhood Metal head friends hating on my REO Speedwagon Hi Infidelity and Foreigner 4 (not so much Paradise Theater though, maybe since they were also 70's Styx and Queen fans). We had enough in common (Queen, Rush, Van Halen) but we traded jabs on what we didn't. I never got into Maiden or Priest the way they did (one guy was even in to live KISS), liking only the few hits.
I remember riding the school bus and hearing Steve Miller's "Fly Like An Eagle" every afternoon, later thinking how much "Abracadabra" sucked. Same with The Cars' "Magic" sucking compared to their older stuff. The kid across the street would comment how much today's music sucked when Hall & Oats' "I Can't Go for That (No Can Do)" would play on the bus. This same kid was ordering 8-tracks from Columbia House (even I didn't do this and I collected 8-tracks), and instead of getting Judas Priest's British Steel that he ordered, he got Loretta Lynn's Coal Miner's Daughter! We get off the bus, check the mailbox, and I went with him across the street to hear it. When he opened the box... LOL!
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Back to Van Halen...
1984 didn't suck though, at least not to me. It was a good compliment to the older stuff, and without so many covers this time (although they're good).
So once again...
30°27'33.84"N 91°15'18.71"W "I got bim bam banana pops, dixie cups..." 30°26'40.85"N 91°12'25.53"W "We're gettin' funny in the back front of my car..." (always thought location fit analogy: “...by the Dashboard Light”...lol).
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
I wonder what the break down is among Rush fans who liked the stylistic changes that Rush went through and those who didn't care for the changes at all? For example, compare the albums "A Farewell to Kings" and "Signals". The two albums were only 5 years apart but man, the change in style is really huge.
I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't accept "Signals" - "Hold Your Fire" until someone loaned me their "A Show of Hands" concert CD [after mentioning that I enjoyed "Presto"], which I copied to cassette for my Walkman. Rush with a steady beat, excellent workout/track tunes to this day. By "Roll The Bones" (our first Rush concert), I was catching up with those 80's albums and they've really grown on me since.
Major Brain Fart: Forgot to mention Metallica's Black album ("Metallica" 1991) as part of my early-90's musical enjoyment!
Last edited by MarkG; 10/26/2010:57 PM.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 3,859RedOneAlpha
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Music is like colors, each likes his own,
But the big difference is when you look at those who can play, those who can´t, those who play for money and fame, and those who play because they love to do so no matter what (jazz etc.).
I was always a Sabbath fan, but I agree that Ozzy´s voice was not overall great or even musical. Someone like Steve Perry would blow him out of the water! The unique thing about Sabbath, and that most fans liked about them is the lack of exposure! No air play, no T-shirts, no magazine photos or interviews etc. It was a undeground band that made it to were it is because of it´s fans mouth to mouth, same as Metallica in there small debute.
As for Rush, Signals was a hard album for Rush fans to get into because it was way ahead of it´s time, and with more keyboards then usual which added that "new age" cut to it. It was a year apart from Moving Pictures (one of my favs) and that album was hard to beat! Personally I think Rush lost momentum with Roll The Bones, when Roll the Bones came out I was like WTH? Counterparts and Test for Echo got me back to there stuff but they were not ahead of time as usual anymore. Never really listen to Vapor Trails, and did buy Snakes and Arrows but with that I saw the aging of Rush and a more relaxed approach to there compositions. But with all that aside, you can´t blame them, with 19 albums on there back, all composed by them, and more then 40 years together, hats off Sirs! They have inspired alot of yesterdays and todays bands, Rush was another band that didn´t care to much for air play and/or exposure, they played what they wanted to!
As a listener, there is a difference between a usual listener and one who plays a instrument. By that I don´t mean one is better then the other, just that as a musician one might be more critical (focused) then the other, and not even that is 100% true, as true music lovers can be way more critical at times!
Again, like colors I like blue and red
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Good post Red2112 but as with pretty much all other forms of art or entertainment, the majority of the audience can be termed as "casual". They usually don't recognize true musicianship when it comes to either playing an instrument or writing a complex tablature for guitar. For the casual listener all that matters is if the tune is catchy.
And since the casual listener represents the majority of the consumer market, that's what the music industry caters to.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Good post Red2112 but as with pretty much all other forms of art or entertainment, the majority of the audience can be termed as "casual". They usually don't recognize true musicianship when it comes to either playing an instrument or writing a complex tablature for guitar. For the casual listener all that matters is if the tune is catchy.
And since the casual listener represents the majority of the consumer market, that's what the music industry caters to.
Exactly! Very on-point and I totaly forgot about the real fact (the majority of consumers). Thank you PanzerMeyer
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I wanted to say it's interesting to read someone's comments who knows the industry and who can actually play (apologies to Red2112 for not getting back to this sooner)...
You really do look like a genuine Rocker! <we need a head banging emoji>!
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I had to go really clean cut for work. I miss my wife's 80's big hair (although this pic was very early 90's...way before digital, wish I had a bigger better one)...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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Originally Posted by MarkG
I miss my wife's 80's big hair (although this pic was very early 90's...way before digital, wish I had a bigger better one)...
80's fashion was still around in the early 90's to some extent. It took a while for it to finally die off! I clearly remember seeing women wearing blouses with those dreaded "shoulder pads" well into 1993 or so. lol
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Lol. Yeah, love the 80's look in general, but not so much the shoulder pads [EDIT: wife is wearing them in above pic]...
Last edited by MarkG; 10/27/2002:56 PM.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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LOL, yes those shoulder pads are still around in some family pics (sister)
No worries Mark, we all have our things to do, and thank you for the props! That was back in 2007 and I had just gotten back to playing (three months) after a 15 year break! Got a bit back to it 4 years ago and even got together a small home studio but life took a sudden turn (my dad died) and I wasent up for any playing to be honest. I was really into it in my teen years, had been in bands and all that but as I stated, when I got into the music business (90´s) I got discouraged to continue. The urge has been creeping lately, but it will be for my own enjoyment no pro-plan. Who knows, might be a star at my 60´s
But back to the topic, and while writing this up has come back to mind. Althought you could do home recording on PC (Cubase/Atari), or demo tapes (Tascam 4 track with ping-pong to 8) back in the 80´s, the concept of home studios DAW (Digital Audio Workstations) has really evolved a hella of alot these past two decades, not only that, it has become VERY affordable! If you add to it YT and all the info (instructional videos for playing and sound engineering) you get a busrt of musical ideas and talent never seen before!
Why? Well it´s ALOT easier now to learn all this, and a hell of alot cheaper too! There´s NO excuse now for being bad at anything of this. Back then music classes were very expensive, books were very expensive, Instructional VHS were very expensive, and good guitars and outboard gear was very expensive! Sure going to study at Berklee College of Music is still expensive, but at least now you can get away with it if you practise enough and dig into it because you now have all the tools at hand.
Which brings the next point and why I brought this up. Now you don´t need to go through a mayor label, you have the tools to produce your own record, manage your own band, self promote, and even decided how to manage your own royalties in a secure way! All together this gives todays youth the FREEDOM to make and produce whatever music they want and/or can play. Which in turn gives us ALOT of music to choose from today
Yes the big boys are still there and rule, but now at least you have a fighting chance if you want to!
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Not everything in my last post is "gold" for music now days, there is a downside to all of this...
The same way it´s alot easier to produce music now days, it also throws a bunch of crap out too! You now have a kid with a some what tasteful taste for music who now puts together a few licks which happen to be on time, then loops them and adds some mad FX´s to the mix, and there you have it! The kid has a song and maybe even gets thousands of views on whatever medium he posted on, and God knows what it can evolve to! In other words, the easier it is to do things, the dumber you can be to do them!
If you follow the Motown days you will find out that the blues players of that era were very good because of one simple fact, recording hours were very expensive! So, in order for any session player to get a job as such, he/her needed to play his part perfectly in one take! This also applied to most musicians of the 60-70´s, you really had to know how to play! The same goes for sound engineers, they had little gear and really had to know how to make the best of it, along with all the theory behind mixing and mastering. In other words, they all knew their stuff!
Now you have voice correction pluggins, EQ preset pluggins for mixing and mastering, and even royalty free bass n drum loops, or paid for loop libraries with all kinds of stuff, and a long list of stuff I wont even get into! Like what you find with Unreal engine assets and game developers, same concept! So the talent and know-how is not as needed as before, which again in turn produces more junk, and less qualified musicians/producers.
In the end, it´s a double edge knife for good and bad, but everybody gets a chance if needed!
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Very interesting commentary, Red2112. I think Eddie would approve of a little OT (your top post of the last two reminded me of his interview on page 1, how he couldn't afford all the equipment he needed for the sound he wanted, so he had to be inventive).
Music today is a double edge knife for the consumer as well. Purchasing music was so expensive (at least to me it was) and making the perfect mix cassette tape from vinyl (33 LPs and 45 singles) was very time consuming (if you wanted one). The positive is that your collection (60 to 90 min. worth) would be so focused that it's easy to remember associated memories (in general and specific) to reminisce about years or even decades later. For dating, if you went through the effort of making a mix tape for your car or boom box, you could use it for years if you kept the same girl or found another with similar tastes.
I don't know if Europeans had such a strong teenage car culture, so they might not understand. Your wheels and tunes were everything, even if (as in my case) it was a total piece of crap or (in wife's case) was actually your mom's car that she let you drive to school and work.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I should have mentioned Black Sabbath earlier, another favorite of the Metal head kids (I like them enough for a Greatest Hits compilation).
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Nice videos. Bottom video says 1988, the first one I think was around the same time. Still doesn't seem real that he's gone, I didn't know he was currently in bad shape, just in remission.
Last edited by MarkG; 10/28/2001:00 AM. Reason: Black Sabbath
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Yes, alot of experimenting went on in those days and the years before, ask Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd about there wild sound inovations.
I was in the US till I was 18, so yes I know what you mean about cars and tape decks. My late dad gifted me a used Buick Apollo which was lime green! I had to put some of that tinted film they sold on both of the front side windows so they could not see me as I was quite imbaresed for driving a car with that color! Got over it though LOL. I had a Pioneer tape deck and a separate pre-amp with EQ with some two way speakers right under the front seat and a pair of three way Jensen speakers on the back try and would jam moving pictures for hours on a Friday night! I was pretty good at installing tape decks and stuff among my friends, so they would ask me to do so. As you can see, I still remember all that. Man, no one forgets his teenage years, and yes Van Halen was a big part of it
Making tapes for myself or friends was like a hobby for me. I enjoyed doing that alot, and even when tapes was not a thing, I still did that with min-disc for awhile. With records, well if I could I would not think twice on buying LP´s, again it was a hobby, and alot of fun. I would get paid on a Friday and that same day after work I would head on to my local records shop, buy a album for the cover or what ever, then play it at home while I spent an hour looking/reading the record sleeve for all the details. Some were a miss, some were a hit, It was all part of the adventure
Great times, and I think I would do it all again if I had the choice!
Red
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Back in 1999/2000 when Napster first started, I don't think anyone really understood the profound changes that digital and later streaming technology would bring to the music business. Metallica was one of the few bands that really understood what was in store and they unfairly caught a lot of flak for it at the time. Heck, I completely understand that most people don't want to work for free.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Good documentaries, Red2112. I have the "MTV Rockumentary" somewhere in my VHS archives, but I don't recall the "The Sam and Dave Show" which I enjoyed immensely over lunch.
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Something I forgot to mention...thanks to my older brother who was into Hi-Fi, I had reasonably good components for recording vinyl to tape (mix and full albums), usually using a 90 min. chrome or metal tape. I cover the process on this thread (above DIO poster)... My Top 100 All-Time Greatest Songs
Due to decent sound quality (compared to store bought tapes which were generally awful), I listened to cassettes way past their prime which is why the CD jewel cases in my earlier VH/DLR CD pic look different. The plain black cases were part of my early collection (VH 1 and 1984 were must-haves right off the bat), but the ones with writing are remasters that I later purchased to finally replace my tapes. I seldom played my LPs, enjoying the packaging while keeping them protected as my source.
My bigger collection was 8-tracks which I purchased at yard sales in the early-to-mid-80's, giving me a sizable music collection for cheap and often finding new music when buying a grab bag of albums.
To quote Al Bundy, "Let's Rock!"...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Back in 1999/2000 when Napster first started, I don't think anyone really understood the profound changes that digital and later streaming technology would bring to the music business. Metallica was one of the few bands that really understood what was in store and they unfairly caught a lot of flak for it at the time. Heck, I completely understand that most people don't want to work for free.
It´s funny how they cheat, and/or lie to us, and Iam talking about the industry and other´s in power we wont mention...
At first they told us that the transition to CD was basically because the medium was alot cheaper, and yeah you can buy a blank CD for a buck or so. The thing is that a recorded CD of a mayor band, and I´ll put Metallica as a example because funny enough they are never on sale! So, a Metallica album on CD will run from €12 to €15, which basically is what a LP would cost back when CD´s were still in the oven! In other words, CD´s are cheaper for them, not us! I´ll even take this further, lately I buy original music in FLAC format which is as close as the original or even better because you can buy a 24bit (Hi-Res) version, and either version is not a down grade like MP3 is. Prices are €9-10 for a 16bit (standard CD), and €15-17 for 24bit (Hi-Res) versions, you can also buy MP3 (320kbps) for €7-8 with the compression of MP3.
So as you can see, the profit is always towards the industry no matter how much they take away from the manufacturing process. I´ll put the FLAC example, there´s no CD, no cover, no physical shop etc. you buy from a online store, download your file which is usually a 1GB and done!
Now we have the comeback of LP´s again! With prices running in the €22-25 for none color vinyl and/or fancy double cover sleeves. In a time when we are supposed to transition into the electrical domain for transport due to climate change and the abuse of fosil fuel of which vinyl records are made of!
In a nut shell, it all dosen´t make any sense, well in a way yes because they really don´t give a flying s about anything that is not making money! Worst even, these LP´s which are supposed to be original are really not that original! Most of these new LP´s that are trying to have there comeback with today´s youth are pressed form digital (output) onto a vinyl format! In other words, they are not pressed from the original master TAPE recordings! Which is murder in the first degree at the price of a gem! And Iam sure some will argue, or even some might not even know they have been doing that. Poor kids and there hard earned money! Not saying all lables are doing that, but like all, you wont know unless you heard the original.
That´s why I try to buy used at flea markets or thrift shops, it´s cheaper and your sure it´s original. The problem now is that they know there´s a demand for LP´s now and have increased the prices of used LP´s!
So while Napster was dangerous they had a plan for the long tem, not to mention streaming with monthly payments. They always have a long term plan!
Edit:
I wrote FLAK, when I meant FLAC in my original post! Don´t know what I was thinking about
Last edited by Red2112; 10/29/2012:18 AM.
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Wow. Well there goes my dream of one day going retro turntable (although I still want an '88 Fiero GT 5-speed w/t-tops and aftermarket Alpine cassette head unit).
EDIT: New car audio thread coming soon.
Last edited by MarkG; 10/28/2008:32 PM.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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No worry go second hand (used), even with the sound system. I have two Sansui Hi-Fi amps, one from 1978, and another from 1981. Just keep an eye out at flea markets and such. Believe me, it´s harder to find these things used here in EU then for you guys in the US.
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The problem is that I sold all of my possessions in '87 including my LPs to buy a dependable car and a stupid engagement ring! Lol. I'm joking...maybe...I do kinda miss my king-size waterbed (oh man, sleeping on heated water in the winter). So I'd also be buying used LPs which are probably scratched to hell, but I do like the idea of checking out flea markets. I haven't gone to one in a long time (although I do Goodwills and thrifts). Thanks for that advice.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
I remember those! My older brother (thus myself) used this (the liquid bottle slipped inside the handle)...
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If I could go back in time and do one thing differently, with a guarantee that I wouldn't somehow end up in an alternate reality, I would figure out a way to make this happen...
June 13, 1984.....Baton Rouge.....LSU Assembly Center
Setlist ========== "Unchained" "Hot for Teacher" Alex Van Halen drum solo "On Fire" "Runnin' with the Devil" "Little Guitars" "Cathedral" and "House of Pain" Michael Anthony bass solo "Jamie's Cryin'" "I'll Wait" "Everybody Wants Some!!" "Girl Gone Bad" "Ice Cream Man" (John Brim cover) "Summertime Blues" (Eddie Cochran cover) "1984" and "Jump" Eddie Van Halen guitar solo [and "Eruption", "Spanish Fly", "Little Guitars", "Women in Love..." and "Mean Street" (Intros)] "Oh, Pretty Woman" (Roy Orbison cover) "Panama" "You Really Got Me" (The Kinks cover) [encore] "Growth" and "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love" [and "Happy Trails" (Roy Rogers and Dale Evans cover)]
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Not a believer? Neither was David Lee Roth until he went to a show, as he wrote about in his book "Crazy from the Heat". The Atomic Punks have been around since the mid-90's and are on their fourth guitarist. DLR was impressed enough to nab two of them for his own tours, which to me is a pretty good endorsement. And of course, as in the videos I posted earlier, they apparently have a rapport with Mike and Sammy.
We've seen them twice (the second time with 5150, a Van Hagar tribute), and they seem to get top billing for tribute acts on those Rock cruises. Of course it's not the real thing but we're talking only ~$20.00 and without the hassle of arena parking and large crowds. Also small venues usually have good acoustics, sometimes great (the Fixx in the Manship Theatre sounded incredible).
These tribute acts assure that the music, faithfully replicated, lives on past the musician's and even our own lifetimes. Plus you always get a good show as a tribute isn't allowed artistic liberties (better play it right and remember those lyrics), nor can they walk out on stage so blasted that they can hardly perform. Appetite for Destruction Gn'R tribute, "Axl Rose" looked as if he was going to go off at any time, slam his mic down and walk off stage...just part of the show.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Had me thinking that I became a teenager Aug. 1980, and these were some of the albums released around that time (everyone's list will have different favorites, of course)... https://www.albumoftheyear.org/genre/7-rock/1980/
1980 ========== Van Halen - Women and Children First The Police - Zenyatta Mondatta AC/DC - Back in Black Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard of Ozz Rush - Permanent Waves The Alan Parsons Project - The Turn of a Friendly Card REO Speedwagon - Hi Infidelity 38 Special - Wild-Eyed Southern Boys Queen - The Game Pat Benatar - Crimes of Passion Billy Joel - Glass Houses
1981 ========== Van Halen - Fair Warning Journey - Escape Rush - Moving Pictures Foreigner - 4 Men At Work - Business as Usual Stevie Nicks - Bella Donna Ozzy Osbourne - Diary of a Madman Styx - Paradise Theatre Pat Benatar - Precious Time
...and if we take it back to, say...1976, this list would become awfully long.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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Originally Posted by MarkG
1980 ========== Van Halen - Women and Children First The Police - Zenyatta Mondatta AC/DC - Back in Black Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard of Ozz Rush - Permanent Waves The Alan Parsons Project - The Turn of a Friendly Card REO Speedwagon - Hi Infidelity 38 Special - Wild-Eyed Southern Boys Queen - The Game Pat Benatar - Crimes of Passion Billy Joel - Glass Houses
1981 ========== Van Halen - Fair Warning Journey - Escape Rush - Moving Pictures Foreigner - 4 Men At Work - Business as Usual Stevie Nicks - Bella Donna Ozzy Osbourne - Diary of a Madman Styx - Paradise Theatre Pat Benatar - Precious Time
.
I'm a few years younger than you (born in 1972) so I didn't start buying my own music until about 1988 when I was 16. My very first CD purchase ever was the 2 disc soundtrack for "Star Wars" and my second purchase a year later was "Abbey Road". I can't remember what was the first thing I bought on cassette but I do remember my very last cassette purchase which was the soundtrack for Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Always liked this tune, but it's recently become one of my favorites and will remain on certain playlists forever (who says DLR VH didn't put out a great love song? )...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
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LEGE
Yeah, I have a hard time remembering what were my first music buys, but from the top of my head my first LP was a 45 by the Bee Gee´s "Staying Alive". Let´s not forget that Saturday Night Fever had just came out when I was 14, along with Grease, Jaws and Star Wars! I didn´t get into rock till I was 15 with Deep Purple´s Fireball on 8 Track, then Kiss Destroyer and Kiss Alive II, then Ted Nugent Double Live Gonzo and Cat Sctrach Fever, Aerosmith Toys in the Attic and Draw the LIne. After that when I was 16 is when Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Rush came to my attention, the rest is history!
Win10 Pro(x64), i7 8700k @ 4.7Ghz, 32GB ram DDR4, Sapphire Pulse AMD RX 6700 12GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe (x2) 480GB + 960GB, 447GB SSD´s, Samsung G6 32" , Logitech G13, G502, Warthog HOTAS, CH Pedals, Simagic Alpha Mini, and Formula Extreme FX, DC Simracing DC1 pedals, GT Omega ART cockpit, TrackIR 5.0. AUDIO: Aiyima A07 Max, Topping E50 and L50 stack, Polk Audio Signature Elite ES20 , and Shennheiser HD 560s. DAP: Hiby R3, Hiby Seeds, and iBasso IT01, Sharp MD-MT 80H Minidisc.
EDIT: Still haven't found my Eat 'Em and Smile CD but have it on MP3.
Last edited by MarkG; 10/31/2001:07 PM.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
^ Become softer with age, I could do this in a lounge over a couple of Long Island Ice Teas.
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Wife and I are going to make a quick doubleheader Rush/VH road trip later in the month (she thinks I need it, who am I to disagree?), haven't decided on destination (obviously won't be to any kind of show/concert).
After the virus is over, we plan to make our third and final NYC trip while driving a little further north to catch a show at Daryl's House.
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We've seen these 1984 album videos a bazillion times, but it wouldn't be right not to post them on this thread (and honestly I've never tired of watching them)...the big 3 which IMO epitomizes the awesome fun that was Van Halen...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,489PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,489
Miami, FL USA
I wonder how much Van Halen had to pay 20th Century Fox to use that footage from “The Blue Max” in the beginning of their Panama video?
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
I knew Louisiana stayed at least at decade behind the times. See those desks in the "Hot For Teacher video"? Ours still looked like this one (school bus and chalk boards are dead on though)...
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
Finished reading "Losing It" - Valerie Bertinelli (2008). Wow! Talk about behind the scenes of Van Halen (concerts, videos, personal shenanigans)! I won't delve too much here into someone else's dirty laundry (apparently Ed wasn't too put off by her book as he and Valerie remained friends 'till the end) but it seems she wasn't just a rock star's wife with her own separate life. She went to the concerts, hung out with the guys, and was even present while filming the videos (her experience while shooting "Hot For Teacher" was most interesting).
The chapter titles in her book include:
"Love Walks In" "Feels So Good" "Runnin' with the Devil" "Fair Warning" "Aftershock" "Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love" "Best of Both Worlds" "And the Cradle Will Rock" "Finish What Ya Started" "House of Pain" "Where Have All the Good times Gone!" "Black and Blue"
...and her life's story is practically choreographed with her then husband's musical career [EDIT: also being a mom to their son while he toured with the band].
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I'll quote a funny story that only a wife could tell (p.108)...
Prior to the show, Ed had stood among a few select friends and played a tape of a brand new song he'd written, later to be called "Jump." Dave had yet to add lyrics, so it was just a catchy instrumental, written on a portable keyboard in the hall outside our bedroom. On the tape, you could hear me in the background shouting from the bedroom, "#%&*$# [GDmit], keep it down! I have to get up early!"
Lol! There's lots of these type of stories in her book.
Last edited by MarkG; 11/01/2005:45 PM.
The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in Gives way and suddenly it’s day again The sun is in the east Even though the day is done Two suns in the sunset, hmph Could be the human race is run
![[Linked Image]](https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/24539/filename/DSCF3187.JPG)
A tribute show is about celebrating the music together with a crowd, the guys on stage being the biggest fans. And now a tribute of VH is all we have. 
But those guys are good (YT never does justice).
Lol. I'm joking...maybe...I do kinda miss my king-size waterbed (oh man, sleeping on heated water in the winter). So I'd also be buying used LPs which are probably scratched to hell, but I do like the idea of checking out flea markets. I haven't gone to one in a long time (although I do Goodwills and thrifts). Thanks for that advice.![[Linked Image]](https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/27759/filename/il_570xN.468958896_s3v4.jpg)