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#4537350 - 09/17/20 12:35 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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#4537483 - 09/17/20 07:43 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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Interesting comparison of the emergency egress process on various WW2 tanks.


#4537690 - 09/19/20 01:55 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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#4537763 - 09/20/20 12:16 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy

Anthony Gray wrote a book in the 1960s called The Penetrators which was loosely based on those Vulcan bomber exercises, been a very long time since I read it, and they did employ different tactics in the book compared with what was said in the above video. Still it was an enjoyable read smile


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#4537767 - 09/20/20 01:12 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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That Vulcan like a spaceship from outer space


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#4537771 - 09/20/20 01:23 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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Yep...

dizzy



Turn it up...I dare ya!


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#4537831 - 09/20/20 08:20 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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Originally Posted by Crane Hunter
Interesting comparison of the emergency egress process on various WW2 tanks.

My wife's father served in Churchill Crocodiles towards the end of the conflict and Comets post war.
He was 6ft 3ins, how he got into them, let alone out of them in an emergency baffles me, slender as he was.



#4539607 - 10/05/20 11:55 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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Learn something again.



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#4539613 - 10/06/20 12:54 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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Yes, saw that a couple of days ago.

Heck, if I was a German trooper, I am fairly sure being blown to pieces/gunned down was preferable to internment as a POW of Russia.


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#4539626 - 10/06/20 02:44 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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91000 Germans taken prisoners at Stalingrad and only 5000 lived to return to Germany. The Germans and Russians really hated each other.


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#4539630 - 10/06/20 03:12 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
The Germans and Russians really hated each other.



The USSR lost 20 million people from 1941-1945. I can understand the hate.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4539636 - 10/06/20 05:08 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
91000 Germans taken prisoners at Stalingrad and only 5000 lived to return to Germany. The Germans and Russians really hated each other.


I can't say that the hatred the Russians had of the Germans wasn't justified. By late 1943 it was well known what the Germans were doing in the Ukraine and western Russia. It wasn't a suppression effort, it was an extermination effort.

The fact that any Germans troops made it back is more of a surprise than anything else. Compared to what happened to Soviet prisoners captured in 1941 and early 1942 the Soviets were actually much more restrained. If Germany won that war I seriously doubt any of the 4 million plus Soviet prisoners would have ever made it back home.

The only thing that I truly believe the Soviets did that was truly despicable was how they treated those Soviet troops that were captured and returned. Most of these troops had no control over whether they surrendered or fought on. While what the Soviets did to Germans captured during the war was not really right, it was somewhat understandable. What they did to their own troops, that often fought honorably and surrendered only when the situation was hopeless, was truly unforgivable.


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#4539641 - 10/06/20 10:00 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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The Soviet system was every bit as evil and corrupt as the Nazi system, The Soviets just happened to be on our side. Well, they were "on our side" for that short period between dividing Poland with Hitler in 1939 then enslaving everyone they "liberated" in 1945.


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#4539645 - 10/06/20 11:05 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
The Soviet system was every bit as evil and corrupt as the Nazi system, The Soviets just happened to be on our side. Well, they were "on our side" for that short period between dividing Poland with Hitler in 1939 then enslaving everyone they "liberated" in 1945.



Being on the winning side made all the difference of course when you consider that throughout human history it has been shown that it doesn't really matter which side was "just" in war but which side won. You are absolutely right about the Stalin regime being every bit as evil and corrupt as the Third Reich and as we all know from what happened during the De-Stalinization period of Soviet history, even the Soviet leadership themselves acknowledged Stalin's excesses.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4539653 - 10/06/20 12:15 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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Here's a little-known aspect of WWII that has always fascinated me due mostly to the incredible irony that one of the very last units to defend the Reich Chancellery in Berlin wasn't even German but French.



“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4539659 - 10/06/20 01:29 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Wklink]  
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Originally Posted by Wklink
Compared to what happened to Soviet prisoners captured in 1941 and early 1942 the Soviets were actually much more restrained.

The Nazis killed them all? How many were there?


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#4539660 - 10/06/20 01:35 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Originally Posted by Wklink
Compared to what happened to Soviet prisoners captured in 1941 and early 1942 the Soviets were actually much more restrained.

The Nazis killed them all? How many were there?



You love Wiki so much go ahead and look it up! All I will say is that at minimum it is estimated that 3 million Soviet soldiers died in German prison camps and concentration camps.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4539664 - 10/06/20 02:09 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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I was busy, didn't have time to Wiki. Quicker to write a question. But now I have time to Wiki it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_mistreatment_of_Soviet_prisoners_of_war

and Wiki again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_prisoners_of_war_in_the_Soviet_Union

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#4539749 - 10/06/20 11:26 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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If he did escape Berlin, he can't be alive. His birth year is 1900.




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#4540869 - 10/14/20 05:58 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
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I know this. Market Garden fail = Nazis took it out on the Holland population that help the Allies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944%E2%80%9345





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