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#4537283 - 09/16/20 04:25 PM RTX 3080 reviews are coming in  
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Not exactly finding any bad reviews on the new RTX 3080. They dropped the price significantly and upped the performance. I was going to wait a few more cycles to update my old GTX 1080 but I'm starting to rethink that. I know WOFF is very CPU dependent but doesn't seem like it would hurt to have this kind of a GPU pushing the frame rates consistently higher. What do you guys think? Devs?

RTX 3080 Toms Hardware Review

Last edited by Hellshade; 09/16/20 04:26 PM.

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#4537298 - 09/16/20 06:59 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Couple things I saw in that write-up:

"Out of all the benchmarks we ran, there was only one (Doom Eternal) where the 3080 actually doubled the 2080's performance."

"We won't belabor the point, but without ray tracing and/or DLSS, most games simply don't benefit much from the performance the RTX 3080 delivers."


And according to what I saw, the further below 4k resolution you're running, the less performance increase you're going to see - interesting, considering that 1080 is still more common that all other resolutions combined.

Seems all the bragging about "twice the performance (of a 2080) at half the cost" (or whatever) was the same kind of hype that surrounds most new hardware releases. I am also reminded that prior generations of new GPUs actually opened up at a price a good deal higher than what had been stated in the hype before their releases, too.

So, less than the hyped performance and (perhaps) more than the hyped price...pretty much what has happened in the past.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/16/20 07:00 PM.
#4537308 - 09/16/20 08:16 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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For new releases of games, it will be great. However, they punt it's cheaper - I don't think it is that much cheaper than the 2000 series really? Until we have one no idea if it will help a little with the shader side of things. For many years new generations of GPU has only given roughly 20/30% gains over the previous, and recently they have kept over hiking the price each time too. I think they reached the plateau and can't really charge more every two years.

Makes 2080 / 2080 Ti owners annoyed to invest I am sure.


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#4537312 - 09/16/20 08:53 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Polovski]  
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Originally Posted by Polovski
For new releases of games, it will be great. However, they punt it's cheaper - I don't think it is that much cheaper than the 2000 series really? Until we have one no idea if it will help a little with the shader side of things. For many years new generations of GPU has only given roughly 20/30% gains over the previous, and recently they have kept over hiking the price each time too. I think they reached the plateau and can't really charge more every two years.

Makes 2080 / 2080 Ti owners annoyed to invest I am sure.


It's not really all that much cheaper, if you're comparing performance. No one's posting prices (until tomorrow, IIRC) but I'm betting the 30 series** will be more than the rumors said, and the 20 series obviously will drop, so that'll change the equation. 2080 Super cards are going around $700-750 ATM, which isn't that much more than the 3080 is supposed to be. And the margin of performance gain is less when comparing a 2080S to the 3080 as well, plus it drops again if you're looking at 1080p. Nowhere near the figures that all the raving has been about.

**aftermarket cards, that is. Apparently, Nvidia is selling a 3080 FE for $699(?), but again that's not much less than the current 2080S price - which will almost certainly drop, soon.

Also interesting is that no one was allowed to publish reviews until today, one day before the release of the cards themselves. By that time, all the lemmings are already lined up to buy the "latest and greatest", having almost no opportunity to review (factual, non-hyped) data. I haven't specifically checked this, but it seems 24 hours is about the shortest time ever between allowing published reviews and hardware release date.

I think it may be more appropriate to those who want to run 4k, can afford the monitor and other hardware, and are happy with ('only') 60FPS at 4k. For that, it seems to be a good fit - in some games.

(Edit: I'm also seeing a lot of talk about the 3080 bottlenecking CPUs that aren't fairly current, particularly in the same 4k arena that the 3080 is supposed to excel at...so, I guess what they're trying [not] to say is that in order for the fantastic deal on a $700 3080 to be 'worth it', you need to shell out $2000 plus for a 4k monitor and a new CPU - which will almost certainly require a new motherboard, maybe new RAM...sheez, it just never stops with these guys...)

I don't think this applies to most gamers. Certainly doesn't seem so according to statistics on gaming monitor resolution.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/16/20 09:29 PM.
#4537327 - 09/16/20 09:32 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Pol,

I run at 4k, where the biggest performance gains are shown with RTX 3080 over a 1080 FE, which is what I currently have. Consistency in frame rates is more important than peak frame rates for smooth game play, so if it provides the horsepower to spare to stay locked at 60, it should be a good improvement. I will wait until after the new year for whenever the 3080 TI comes out.

Yes prices have been much higher than originally listed for the past couple of generations. But the RTX 2020 was around $1,100 or so. At least the starting list price for the 3080 FE is down to about $700. Not saying that isn't expensive, but it's still a reduction as opposed to another increase. So more performance at a lower price point than the last generation seems like as good a place as any to consider jumping in. I'll wait until after the New Year in any event to see what the actual pricing is and if they will be releasing a 3080 Ti version.

Last edited by Hellshade; 09/16/20 09:36 PM.

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#4537374 - 09/17/20 09:07 AM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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One problem in UK is they just change the $ sign to a £ and use the same announce price numbers!
I think the 2080 Ti was £1100 here - straight $ £ conversion as always frown
2080 was around £699 or something i.e. more like $907

So if they don't do that $ £ trick maybe it will be cheaper biggrin

Agreed that iffy delay on reviews doesn't instil confidence.


Regards,

Polovski,
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http://www.overflandersfields.com
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#4537391 - 09/17/20 12:21 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Some prices are starting to appear. Many cards from the higher end names (eVGA, MSI, Asus) are running $30-50 higher than what was released, no surprise. And, given demand and the fact that everything is already out of stock, it's possible that figure will increase. Because profit. Some lower-end names (Gigabyte, Zotac) are meeting the $700 mark, but they're also out of stock.

Meanwhile the 20-series cards are still priced the same - mostly because the 30-series isn't available. But, soon as supply catches up with demand, the 20-series will drop, effectively reducing (if not eliminating) the "huge" performance/cost delta. Performance gain was widely touted to be 200% and at best is maybe 80% compared to a vanilla 2080 (and less still for the 2080S, and only at higher resolution).

So, prices will equalize, and the performance isn't what all the ranting suggested. In a word: Marketing.

And, let's not forget that (according to more than one source) the CPU is a factor if you're one of the few who actually expect to run at 4k. Without the 'latest and greatest', getting "solid" 60FPS may not be reality. This will typically mean changing motherboards, which (could) mean new RAM... Also, real costs like the power supply can be a factor (the 30-series looks to require ~30% more power than the 20-series).

So now, as I mentioned above, that GPU upgrade which was such a great value at $700 winds up costing a lot more - and more still if you're determined to have a 30-series GPU, but don't already have the 4k monitor that justifies the 30-series GPU. Even then, I'm reminded that accepting a lower frame rate to gain higher resolution is almost never preferred over higher refresh rates possible with lower resolution; something that was covered in the 4k Gaming is Dumb video, and I'm not sure that even 60 FPS is enough to change that. Most gamers I deal with are looking to get over 100 (and 'professional' competitive gamers seem to be well north of that, looking at 200+ on up to 360Hz refresh rates.)

IMO, the reason for most who decide to change to 30-series GPUs soon after release will be the same as it is, typically, for those lining up to buy the latest and greatest soon after release: Bragging rights - which is seldom a 'value proposition'.

My advice is always to wait a while, and definitely consider the previous generation(s) - once prices drop due to the new generation release. I even take it to extreme lengths, trying to find combinations of (usually much older) previous gen hardware that yields a very high percentage of performance for significantly less money (say 95%+ performance for ~66% cost). I have several on the bench right now.

Naturally, I understand these approaches will never apply for the 'bragging rights' crowd, because in spite of the demonstrated empirical value, they lack the one factor the bragging rights crowd desires: They can't go online and brag about what they just bought.

Of course, if you're the 'money is no object' type, good for you. I don't know anyone like that, and they're far less common than those who enjoy gaming, but as part of a bigger picture that includes things like food, rent, and maybe even a family to support.

Me personally, I like bragging about how I got comparable performance at a much lower price, saving perhaps a few hundred dollars in the process.

What Nvidia has done with the 30 series is impressive, no doubt, when compared to costs/performance of the 20-series. But then, the 20-series was overpriced for the value, and ray tracing thus far has been a failure. Nvidia set the price for the 20 series...and now - since that was so outrageous - they can charge much less and make the 30 series look like a steal by comparison. It's more about how bad the 20 series was than how good the 30 series is, TBH. LOL I even saw a meme somewhere about people having to sell their 2080Ti for $500...

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/17/20 01:03 PM.
#4537402 - 09/17/20 01:11 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Wait - hold on now kk - so you're saying that these computer parts manufactures are intentionally exploiting our individual interests and desires in order to make money? I'm crushed! So much for the Utopian dream.


Lou

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#4537405 - 09/17/20 01:22 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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LMAO...well, as a matter of fact, I guess that is what I'm saying.

Capitalist b@stards biggrin biggrin biggrin


Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/17/20 01:23 PM.
#4537406 - 09/17/20 01:25 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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#4537415 - 09/17/20 02:14 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Wait - hold on now kk - so you're saying that these computer parts manufactures are intentionally exploiting our individual interests and desires in order to make money? I'm crushed! So much for the Utopian dream.
Lou.


Yes. Basic capitalism at work. How dare they?!? LOL Spot on, Lou. Nobody has to buy the new cards and I'd always advise anyone to wait a few months to see what the real world prices and people's real world experiences turn out to be. As for myself, the leap from a 1080 FE to a potential 3080 ti might be worth it. For others, it might be a terrible idea.


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#4537416 - 09/17/20 02:19 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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And you know, something else I realized as I was looking at all the (out of stock) cards at NewEgg...

Duh...the higher (*much* higher) power requirements also mean higher TDP (that's heat generated by the card) means that all the aftermarket models (that I see so far) are triple fan setups. The triple fans means cards are over 11" long ; some even go over 12.5". So that means a few things too:

- If your case isn't wide enough to accommodate a card this long, you could be looking at a new chassis. (Chassis prices for some reason have gone nuts, often running $100+). I recently have been working with a card that's almost 12" in a reasonably-sized case...let me tell you, it can be a real workout.

- These cards will generate a good deal more heat - so even if it's big enough, unless your chassis is well ventilated, this could be a problem, too. And they're axial fan designs, meaning these cards will blow all the heat off themselves...right on to your chipset, voltage regulator modules (VRMs), RAM, and CPU. Unless you liquid cool your CPU (which itself has consequences for other components' cooling), you could be looking at overheating it and/or the other components in that crucial area of your motherboard.

- If you have a small form factor case (many bought Dells/HPs etc) there won't likely be a 'single-fan' solution that is small enough/runs cool enough/uses little enough power for this situation. Even the 3070 draws 220W, which is *way* beyond what those small units can support, and puts it among the most power-hungry Nvidia cards produced...never mind the 320W drawn by a 3080.

A lot of incidental factors to consider.

#4537421 - 09/17/20 02:35 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Lou's (obvious) joke about economic principles laid aside, the overwhelming point here is that a 30-series card isn't going to be the obvious, steal of a bargain, no-brainer cost vs performance upgrade that all the (Nvidia marketing) hype has tried to portray. No matter what resolution, games, or card you already may have. Simple as that.

It might perform better in some specific cases, but it isn't going to be cheaper than alternatives that do just as well in the majority of cases. And it could wind up costing a lot in indirect expenses for what is usually a "drop-in" upgrade. Did I mention that PCIe 4.0 - which many motherboards don't even support - is now being used for the 30-series cards?

NVIDIA’s Seth Schneider said. “The impact is typically less than a few percent going from a x16 PCIE 4.0 to x16 PCIE 3.0." So, if you don't change motherboards, you're already sacrificing (another) "few percent" of what you bought the 3080 for...?

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/17/20 07:01 PM.
#4537444 - 09/17/20 04:05 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Very interesting insight KKsnowbear!!

Gives one a lot of food for thought!

Tnx


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#4537541 - 09/18/20 01:00 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Indeed, Robert. Glad if it helps.

Y'know, more I look at this...I am simply amazed at all the details that are completely omitted (or at best, glossed over) by the all the hype.

Please bear with me - this is sort of important, especially if you're planning on upgrading or building a new machine any time in the next year or so.

This is about the whole PCIe 4.0 thing. Keep in mind that the 30-series cards use PCIe 4.0, and per Nvidia, a system running PCIe 3.0 isn't going to support the full speed of the GPU's interface. This matters not only in terms of the performance gains purported by the 30-series GPUS, but also in a different (very crucial) feature they utilize: It's called RTX IO. Now this by itself probably warrants a whole separate write-up, but I'm going to try to reduce it as much as possible.

RTX IO allows the GPU to basically pull resources (like textures, in games) directly from the storage, without having to go through the CPU for functions such as decompression. Sound familiar?

Effectively, this is something that's been discussed over and over again here in this forum, regarding WOFF - although not necessarily in a way that's immediately apparent when discussing the 30-series GPUs. There have been discussions regarding limitations of the WOFF 'pipeline' or 'engine' and the performance issues it causes, and at times these discussions included the concept of moving the processing work for some graphics elements from the CPU to the GPU (or so-called "offloading").

Now, to be clear: I am NOT saying this new method will fix the issues with the CFS3 engine's 'pipeline'. TBH, I don't think it can be fixed, because I believe it's too firmly embedded in the code to change it without basically starting over. My discussions with AnKor in the past have echoed this; he's said he's not sure that what causes these issues can be fixed by his work with DirectX and shaders. I believe he's confirmed that doing this work on the CPU vs GPU is big part of the problem and that it is likely impossible to fix. I think what we'll all find is that games with this sort of issue can't be corrected without 'deep dive' changes that aren't possible (without source code and a significant amount of work, anyway).

Still, I'm bringing it up because it helps to illustrate why getting these functions offloaded from the CPU is important. RTX IO effectively does what (would have) avoided the issue that CFS3 has, as regards moving resources directly from storage to GPU, processing on the GPU itself, and being able to do this by taking advantage of the speeds allowed by an interface like PCIe 4.0. In my mind, it's entirely plausible that PCIe 4.0 matters more to the RTX IO process than perhaps it does to just GPU interface speed. In fact, here's a quote from the Nvidia website:

"(With RTX IO) Object pop-in and stutter can be reduced, and high-quality textures can be streamed at incredible rates, so even if you’re speeding through a world, everything runs and looks great."

Now, anyone that's been here for some of these 'engine' discussions should be able to identify with that, all by itself. These are the same factors which contribute to (or detract from) the immersion so important to enjoyment of a gaming experience. I'm always reminded to take 'marketing speak' with a huge grain of salt, mind you, but this is a set of developments in PC gaming performance that's well overdue, and could actually be...well (forgive me) a "game changer".

For the sake of space/time, I'm intentionally omitting a lot of detail here, but if you want - and you should - you can check it out here: >LINK<

So, PCIe 4.0 matters, and it could matter a lot, beyond just the GPU. I hope the way I've explained it shows why.

So, that's just basically a backdrop...I'm not even to the main point yet. TBC...

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/18/20 01:49 PM.
#4537545 - 09/18/20 01:44 PM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Before I continue, let me say that the following discussion only applies to Intel boards/CPUs. Board designs based on AMD CPUs/chipsets have been offering PCIe 4.0 for a while now; in fact, I have one here. And believe me, what the extra bandwidth does for performance - especially storage - is genuinely remarkable. AMD has beat the pants off Intel for the first time ever in this respect (PCI Express generation). In fact, I've been very impressed with that whole AMD platform in initial testing - the Ryzen 3600 I used on it is a monster and was *very* reasonably priced (~$160, and it performs as well as - or better than - some of the best CPUs I have like 4790k, 6700k, 7700k in 3dMark's FireStrike gaming benchmark).

But, don't get me started...that's a topic for another time.

Anyhow, back to Intel and their implementation of PCIe 4.0. What's happened is that current chipsets and CPUs from Intel do not support PCIe 4.0, and will only do so within the next year if you follow a fairly tight path with few options. I've read they had trouble getting it to work with the current stuff, but the 'why' doesn't really matter: Bottom line is it's not supported for now.

So, what some board manufacturers have done/are doing is setting up their boards - using some hardware tricks - to support a limited number of PCIe 4.0 lanes on 400-series chipsets, when you change the CPU to an (as yet unavailable) 11th-gen Rocket Lake CPU.

This is not new - it was also done way back during 2nd-gen CPU days (2500/2700k for example). Board manufacturers put PCIe 3.0 switches on their boards to support it, once CPUs that came out actually had it. I have a couple of these in my shop, and they do exactly as claimed: When fit with a 3rd gen CPU, you get PCIe 3.0 support from the CPU for GPUs. But, just like now: When first released, the only CPUs you could get for those boards only supported the prior generation of PCIe (at that time, 2.0). And, since it's a hardware trick, there are limitations (more on this below).

So, back to today: If you bought a 300-series motherboard, you'll never see the PCIe 4.0 that a 30-series GPU uses on that motherboard/chipset/CPU. Sorry, but there it is.

And, even if you were to (or already have) bought into the brand new, latest and greatest Intel CPU platform, 400 series/10th-Gen Comet Lake...well, you're still not getting PCIe 4.0 either - unless you were lucky or clever enough to know all this, and bought one of the very few 400 boards that will actually support PCIe 4.0 *if* you then go buy a Rocket Lake CPU (that's 11th gen, for those following, and they're not released yet; won't be until likely sometime next year...).

That's right: If you bought the newest Intel board available right now, with the intent of going to a 30-series GPU...unless you're very careful, you're still not going to get the PCIe version that is native to the new Nvidia 30-series GPUs. And even if you get one of the **very** few boards that will support PCIe 4.0 in the future, it will only do so once you buy (yet another) new CPU when the 11th-gen units are out.

And EVEN THEN it's still not going to support PCIe 4.0 fully, because the 400-series chipset itself doesn't (and will not) have PCIe 4.0 support. Remember, I said this was done using a 'hardware trick'. It only allows for the board to use the CPUs PCIe lanes when you go to a Rocket Lake CPU - it doesn't add lanes or support to the chipset itself; all the other components still run at PCIe 3.0, even with the new Rocket Lake CPU. That means the only component on your shiny new setup that will actually run at it's full potential is the GPU. You're not getting the other (more exciting, IMHO) benefit of PCIe 4.0, which is increased bandwidth across the PCIe slots for things like storage, and that's what matters to the whole RTX IO function I discussed above.

In order to get "full" support for PCIe 4.0 (from an Intel platform), which includes the GPU and other on-board slots, you'll need to wait until (at least) the 500-series chipset boards are available, and *then* buy your 11th-gen Rocket Lake CPU.

Basically, this means if you intend to upgrade to a 30-series GPU and actually benefit from it's full potential, then not only do you need to be running at 4k resolution as discussed above...but, you'll also need to either wait for a while yet, then change out your motherboard and CPU, or do at least part of this change twice (including paying for two different CPUs).

I do hope all this makes sense - sorry it's so long but it's kind of a convoluted situation. I learned all this going through it the first time, back during the 2nd/3rd gen CPU transition and switch between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0. Looks like history is repeating itself.

I also genuinely hope this will help folks make better decisions about upgrades, amidst a never-ending river of new hardware.

I believe it goes well beyond "basic capitalism" when consumers aren't being given the whole story, and it could well lead to them having to spend more money to land where they want to be - all because the manufacturers aren't 'on the same page' with implementation of constantly changing technology. To dismiss this as "basic capitalism" does not explain or excuse the huge omissions of detail that could easily wind up costing you a lot of money. (And yes, I know you were kidding Lou - even of some folks don't). Kidding aside: These people don't care if you find out the hard way that they didn't bother to tell you some of this stuff. They want you to buy, and buy now - and if you wind up having to buy again to overcome the effect of their omissions...well, they're OK with taking even more of your money, too.

OK, rant off smile As a firm believer in open discussion, I welcome any questions/comments.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/18/20 01:45 PM.
#4537636 - 09/19/20 01:32 AM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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Stache Offline
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Stache  Offline
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To summarize if I may...

To make FULL use of the power (ie. performance) of the 30xx boards.... (in a system that provides the basic functional requirements for power, space and cooling)

1) Need to be running a high resolution (probably 4K) or be doing VR.
2) Need an application to make use of Ray Tracing, DLSS, RTX IO
3) Need to be running application at a high frame rate
4) Need a mother board that fully supports PCIe 4.x (I read rumors Intel is going to skip PCIe 4.x and go right to 5.x)
5) Need a processor compatible with said mother board.
6) Need a processor with a high clock speed
7) Need an application using DX12
8) Need an application that is multi-threaded

Did I miss anything?

If a 30xx is used to replace an older card will there be any improvment? Most likely, but yes it does depend.
Will it be worth the cost - totally up to the user.

caveat emptor

If a person builds their own system it is their responsibity to ensure that all the pieces work together to meet their requirements.

If a person is purchasing a pre-built system it is their responsibilty to ensure the system meets their requirements.

If a person does not do this, then it becomes a learning experience for the person.

Consumers are rarely given the whole story.
But none of the above was hidden in the world of the internet.

And yes we live in time with a never-ending river of new hardware and software...is'nt it exciting!

...as I wait for WOFF 2020...

Will I be replacing my 980ti with a 30xx card, most likely.
Is my 980ti disappointing in any of the common applications I commonly run - Nope.
It is just time to modernize - like getting a new car.
We have been trained to like shiny new things.
Will I just plug in my 30xx card in my old system, sure (provided I have space for its length) and when the time is right I will build a new system to go around it.






Last edited by Stache; 09/19/20 02:24 PM.

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#4537641 - 09/19/20 02:23 AM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jan 2009
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Hellshade
Hellshade  Online Content
Hellshade
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,183
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Stache,

Pretty much sums it up. I did count at least 5 cards being offered at the $699 price point on newegg. I'm sure there's more on other sites. Obviously they were all out of stock since they sold out in 3 minutes...but there are vendors who are meeting the MSRP. It will just take some time for them to replenish their stock. I remember the 1080 line being out of stock a lot when it was first released as well. That's just how it goes.

You can always wait if your current performance is acceptable. You can always buy a generation or two behind and saves some bucks. I tend to skip a generation and then buy. From a 780 ti to a 1080 and now probably to a 3080. That's what works for me. I won't be doing it likely until at least Christmas or maybe even after the new year. If you get yours sooner, would love to hear your real world experiences with in it WOFF (hopefully 2020) and any other sims / games you may happen to run. Real world feedback is always more interesting than either the hypsters or the nick pickers.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 5.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

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#4537644 - 09/19/20 02:40 AM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
Joined: Jan 2016
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kksnowbear Offline
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kksnowbear  Offline
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Originally Posted by Hellshade
Real world feedback is always more interesting than either the hypsters or the nick pickers.


Don't forget the 'bragging righters' who are just plain bothered when the cold, hard detailed facts don't necessarily agree with their own personal determination that they have to get in every lemming line that marketing creates.

Nobody said there weren't cards being offered at the MSRP, but a. You can't buy them at that price, because they're not available regardless, and b. (As I already said) the upper end manufacturers (Asus, MSI, eVGA) are all more than the MSRP. Zotac and Gigabyte are always at the lower end of the cost spectrum. For a reason.

#4537645 - 09/19/20 02:51 AM Re: RTX 3080 reviews are coming in [Re: Hellshade]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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kksnowbear  Offline
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Posts: 655
Stache - your summary is welcome, as are any comments and discussion because I don't believe in censoring what others have to say.

That being said, your summary doesn't really come close to covering everything I'm trying to convey in my detailed analysis. That's always the problem with summaries.

On one point, in fact - and this is just one point, there are others - I'd say you're completely wrong. To say that consumers are never given the whole story is just plain not true. It may not be always...it may not even be most of the time. But it does happen. And when people try to convince others that they "never" get the whole story....well, that's not helping anyone make informed choices. And it's completely disgraceful, in my opinion, to condone that sort of marketing BS by acting as if it's perfectly normal and never happens any other way.

On another point: You state "If a 30xx is used to replace an older card will there be any improvment[sic]? Most likely." At minimum, this appears in conflict to the comment from the review linked by the OP: "We won't belabor the point, but without ray tracing and/or DLSS, most games simply don't benefit much from the performance the RTX 3080 delivers." It would be more accurate to say "Will there be any improvement? It depends". Because...well, because it does.

(BTW I don't think you actually mean "intranet", FWIW)

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/19/20 03:42 AM.
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