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#4535085 - 08/28/20 06:33 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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#4535122 - 08/28/20 11:57 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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#4535344 - 08/31/20 08:25 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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OK finally got a few hours behind the stick so here's my ten cents and pls note I did not own the previous MS Flight Sims so this is not a comparison with those, and just my uninformed opinion:

Setup 8/10: 30 hour download on 20MBit internet. Nuff said about that. The rest of the points were for super easy and simple control setup. No probs recognising my controllers or assigning my own keys and buttons.

Performance: 9/10. My i7, Nvidia 1650 8GB runs at medium and 30-40 fps and I wouldn't expect better. No jitters or stutters during flight. All below based on flying at medium GFX settings.

Entertainment value 8/10: I was easily able to set up a flight from a bush strip in the middle of the Papua New Guinea highlands and fly to my birthplace of Wabag in the western highlands, enjoy the view and then land my Xlin Ultralight on the highlands highway before flying back again. Then did similar for where I currently live in Europe. Very immersive, good fun.

10000 feet

[Linked Image]

A few hundred feet

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Don't get any lower. Parked outside 'my house'. Minecraft anyone?

[Linked Image]

Graphics 6/10: kinda disappointing. I do not compare to old MSFS but to current crop of combat flight sims. The use of Bing Maps to put real world landscape and landmarks in the game is good, but and my wife's comments were spot on "Why is that such a big deal? Google Earth and Streetview have been around for about ten years." The MSFS 2020 world is best viewed from 10,000 feet. Procedurally generated buildings, vehicles etc at 500 feet look like something from games of the 80s or early 90s. Much under 500 ft and it really shows its ugly side. EG take a flight over UK/London. You will see:

- the white cliffs of Dover are green and the landscape around the harbour is totally wonky

[Linked Image]

- ships in the Thames lying underwater like wrecks, not floating on top
- bridges also under water
- some landmarks nicely done (O2 stadium, Big Ben/Parliament, Tower Bridge) but a Tower Bridge you cannot fly through? Bridges in general cannot be flown through or under. Even BOB2 in 2006 had a tower bridge you could fly through and it looked just as good as the one in MSFS 2020.

[Linked Image]

Parliament and Big Ben look nice, but I'm not showing the sunken bridges east and west of me.

Also, the Shard (skyscraper). I flew into it to see what would happen (expecting instant death screen) But no.

[Linked Image]

It swallowed me up and then apparently put my plane in a freight elevator, sent me down to the ground floor and then spat me out.

[Linked Image]

Just weird.

Clouds on medium settings? Nice. On par with other flight sims. Realtime weather and air traffic? I guess that's fun for immersion. I saw some reviewers getting excited about rain on windscreens. Uhm, welcome to the 21st century. Didn't really cook my cookies.

Niggles: No screen shot function, need to use Prt Screen manually (cut and paste every shot), 3rd party app or Nvidia app. Seriously??

Flight models: Xlin Shock Ultra. Never flown in RL, but it takes off inside 50m and lands inside 50m and is super easy to fly, can't do aerobatics so as expected I guess. Also took the Icon A5 amphib for a spin. Fun but it won't nose in during water landings even at high speeds, you can skip across the water like a pebble until you give it full forward stick and push the nose all the way down.

Replay value: 5/10. I'm not interested in a survey sim and trying all the different kites (so you can say I probs shldnt have bought it) but I just wanted to fly an X Cub or Ultra around and look at different landmarks and cities from the air so I will definitely be taking my Cub for a spin over the 7 modern wonders, Victoria and Niagra falls, Greenland, South Pole, and certain cities by night (Tokyo, NY). Might have a bit of fun trying to land the Cub unlikely places (eg top of Ayers Rock) After that, I'm pretty much done I think.

Conclusion: Worth the price tag? Yeah, nah. OK I guess.





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#4535347 - 08/31/20 10:40 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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That's a pretty fair and detailed review HeinKill.

I might try the Bush Pilot missions but I still have hope that Deadstick Bush Flight Simulator will eventually deliver. It seems delayed constantly.


Q: What did socialist countries use before candles?
A: Electricity
#4535429 - 09/01/20 03:10 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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What I love is (at least the theory says) scenery glitches can be updated, for free, into perpetuity. Sure certain areas might be a few years out of date or having glitches, but their map database is just so huge compared to anything locally installed.

I remember years ago wishing for a flight simulator that just streamed Google Earth for the outside scenery.

Now it's here... (except via Bing rather than google lol)

#4535433 - 09/01/20 05:14 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: HeinKill]  
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Originally Posted by HeinKill
Replay value: 5/10. I'm not interested in a survey sim and trying all the different kites (so you can say I probs shldnt have bought it) but I just wanted to fly an X Cub or Ultra around and look at different landmarks and cities from the air so I will definitely be taking my Cub for a spin over the 7 modern wonders, Victoria and Niagra falls, Greenland, South Pole, and certain cities by night (Tokyo, NY). Might have a bit of fun trying to land the Cub unlikely places (eg top of Ayers Rock) After that, I'm pretty much done I think.


There is no replay in this sim, is there? It's more about flying around the globe, enjoying flight, sound, scenery, weather. This is my experience

#4535436 - 09/01/20 06:40 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: bisher]  
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Originally Posted by bisher
Originally Posted by HeinKill
Replay value: 5/10. I'm not interested in a survey sim and trying all the different kites (so you can say I probs shldnt have bought it) but I just wanted to fly an X Cub or Ultra around and look at different landmarks and cities from the air so I will definitely be taking my Cub for a spin over the 7 modern wonders, Victoria and Niagra falls, Greenland, South Pole, and certain cities by night (Tokyo, NY). Might have a bit of fun trying to land the Cub unlikely places (eg top of Ayers Rock) After that, I'm pretty much done I think.


There is no replay in this sim, is there? It's more about flying around the globe, enjoying flight, sound, scenery, weather. This is my experience


Ah, good point. What I meant was, after I have visited all the places named above once, will I go back and visit them again, eg in different kites? I mean, sure, I might overfly Niagra low and slow in the Shock Ultra and then try and land the Icon A5 amphib at the base of the falls just for fun, but generally, no. I'd guess I'll get about 50 hours out of this one.


[Linked Image]
#4535440 - 09/01/20 09:33 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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As I never played modern mil or civilian flight sims, to me there are also such aspects like flight planning, instrument navigation, auto pilot configurations, comms and nav radio management, etc.
And there you can/have to mix what's available in msfs2020 with third party data, like SkyVector (a simple short route that I try to "properly" setup and fly). Add to that the completely different setups for steam and glass cockpits and different planes, there are already some nice tutorials on that out there, e.g. by this guy on youtube.

It's obviously up to everyone, whether he wants to dive into that - I mean you could link it with some of your other "objectives", like visiting certain places, but do it by setting up a flight plan instead of spawning near it in the air.

Edit: Now with properly working SkyVector link.


Last edited by WhoCares; 09/01/20 12:23 PM.
#4535443 - 09/01/20 11:08 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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I find FS2020's terrain graphics to be far superior to anything I have ever seen in a flightsim (as far as modern milsims go, I can only compare to RoF and DCS). For the first time ever, I was able to fly over my home area and recognize it (even to the exact street!). Buildings are generic of course, so the church appears as an office building, but the general layout, ground textures and vegetation are quite accurate. I imagine that the further you get away from world famous locations, the results become more impressive :-) However I noticed that some (big) airports are missing, e.g. Eindhoven and Stuttgart...

At this point, I find FS2020's biggest shortcoming is its lack of in-game documentation: incomplete or missing aircraft specifications, incomplete checklists (which is a shame, because finally you can have the AI read them out), zero info on how to operate avionics, no visible airways and no indication of estimated fuel burn in the flightplanner. This is a serious step back from previous versions, I can only hope they will address this soon.

If MS makes good on their promise to continue support, I think this has everything to become the reference civsim of the future.


Undercarriage lever a bit sticky was it, Sir?
#4535593 - 09/02/20 01:50 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Johan217]  
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Originally Posted by Johan217
I find FS2020's terrain graphics to be far superior to anything I have ever seen in a flightsim (as far as modern milsims go, I can only compare to RoF and DCS).


I find DCS to be a bit like MSFS 2020 - nice from altitude, pretty rudimentary down low. Battle of X and Cliffs of Dover Blitz much more immersive down low - trees, weather, ground objects etc much more detailed than DCS. No experience of RoF.

MSFS2020 is lovely from >5-10,000 feet and it is fantastic to see landmarks and geographical features exactly where they should be, even if they don't look quite like they should. You really can navigate via landmarks and roads which is fantastic.

Even things like procedurally generated houses, or vehicle traffic on roads look good from altitude but oh, my, lordy if you get down to 1000ft or lower they are butt ugly immersion killers. And it seems kinda strange the devs went to all the trouble of making Big Ben look lovely, and then just ignore the river and bridges around it. Or model the Sydney Opera house, but not the Harbor Bridge.

In that respect it has a 'forget that, we need to get it out the door' feeling about it, both because of the visuals, but also because of lack of tech documentation and training missions. I could probably jump from completing the Cessna training to another single engine kite, but a twin Beech? Or a Citation? And without a serious training module, a commercial jet would absolutely be a learning curve too far.

I know modders will have a ball stepping in to fill the gaps, producing training modules/missions or city and landscape mods to sit on top of what is currently there, so people who like buying those mods will eventually be provided with training for that A320 or a London that looks like London (not the current London-from-an-alternate-dimension version).

By then I'll have moved on I fear and experience tells me I rarely go back to a game once I've let it go for a few months, but that's me. I rarely re-read books or rewatch movies!


[Linked Image]
#4535625 - 09/02/20 04:35 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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Before any of you decided to build a new PC for MSF2020...



I feel real sorry for the RTX20 buyers frown Not nice of Nvidia TBH!


Win10 Pro(x64), i7 8700k @ 4.7Ghz, 32GB ram DDR4, EVGA GTX 1070ti 8GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe (x2) 480GB + 960GB SSD´s, LG 29" Ultrawide 21:9 monitor, Logitech G13 and G502, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, TrackIR 5.0, Corsair Void Pro 7.1 USB.
#4535629 - 09/02/20 05:02 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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FWIW Regarding new Nvidia GPU series: It is rumor/leaked that the cards will be in short supply until 2021. That is: They only made a few cards for the initial launch. Now, production is being "held up" while they improve and/or test yields.

The rumor is that one should be ready to buy when they "hit the shelves" -- if they want one at "list price" with "overnight shipping" (figuratively speaking).

May or may-not be true. So, just a "heads up" for those interested.


RX5700XT 50th Anniversary - 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + 43"L (2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 32GB RAM@3.2GHz, Gigabyte X570 AORUS Pro WIFI MB, (2x M.2 SSD on MB + 2xSSD + 5x HD) = 26TB storage, Rosewill 1050W PSU, Rosewill Thor V2 Case, ASUS AC86U router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, Ripjaws KM780 RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W10 Pro
#4535665 - 09/02/20 09:55 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: HeinKill]  
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Originally Posted by HeinKill
Even things like procedurally generated houses, or vehicle traffic on roads look good from altitude but oh, my, lordy if you get down to 1000ft or lower they are butt ugly immersion killers

Minimum legal altitude over built up areas is 1000ft so it does not bother me biggrin


Undercarriage lever a bit sticky was it, Sir?
#4535766 - 09/03/20 05:01 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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Worst uninstall routine ever.

I decided it wasn't for me so went to remove it and cancel my X-Box Game Pass. Seems you can only uninstall it from the X-Box Game Pass app so that's what I did. After literally a few seconds it said it was uninstalled. What,all 93+ gb's worth? It's removed nothing except the entry in the X-Box app. When I installed FS 2020 I put it on my SSD 'game drive' and the rolling cache went on another disc that had loads of room. All those folders were left behind,at least 6 of them and you can't delete them? I want the 90+ GB's of space back please. Tried safe mode,still they won't go. Then I tried some software that removes folders that won't delete and that did the trick except on re-start one of them came back. Deleted it again and so far it's stayed away.

Was it too much to expect that a M$ game would play nice with a M$ O/S? I did it the correct way unless anyone can tell me different.


Q: What did socialist countries use before candles?
A: Electricity
#4535814 - 09/03/20 11:21 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Red2112]  
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Originally Posted by Red2112
Before any of you decided to build a new PC for MSF2020...



I feel real sorry for the RTX20 buyers frown Not nice of Nvidia TBH!


Most of what I've seen indicates that as usual MSFS is mainly CPU bound. I guess at 4K resolution maybe there's benefits, but how many people need that? My 32 inch monitor sure doesn't need 4k...

#4535840 - 09/04/20 06:04 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Zamzow]  
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Originally Posted by Zamzow

Most of what I've seen indicates that as usual MSFS is mainly CPU bound. I guess at 4K resolution maybe there's benefits, but how many people need that? My 32 inch monitor sure doesn't need 4k...


Theres always those that decide to upgrade there older pc to a newer one for siming. I did that my self last year from my i5 3rd gen, which I still have, to a i7 8th gen, and that usually means a better GPU/SSD/RAM etc. So for those it´s worth knowing that the 2nd gen of RTX will be cheaper and better.

In my case, the upgrade cought me right at the start of the RTX20 series. Personally I didn´t think the extra cash was worth a switch from Pascal to Turing, but this is not the case now. The newer RTX30 does seem to be more ahead of the actual RTX20´s, so that´s why I brought up the subject.

And as always, a balance between CPU and GPU is always a good Idea IMHO, not to mention that the extra headroom is always good to have in any application.


Win10 Pro(x64), i7 8700k @ 4.7Ghz, 32GB ram DDR4, EVGA GTX 1070ti 8GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe (x2) 480GB + 960GB SSD´s, LG 29" Ultrawide 21:9 monitor, Logitech G13 and G502, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, TrackIR 5.0, Corsair Void Pro 7.1 USB.
#4536112 - 09/06/20 11:41 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Chucky]  
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Originally Posted by Chucky
Worst uninstall routine ever.

I decided it wasn't for me so went to remove it and cancel my X-Box Game Pass. Seems you can only uninstall it from the X-Box Game Pass app so that's what I did. After literally a few seconds it said it was uninstalled. What,all 93+ gb's worth? It's removed nothing except the entry in the X-Box app. When I installed FS 2020 I put it on my SSD 'game drive' and the rolling cache went on another disc that had loads of room. All those folders were left behind,at least 6 of them and you can't delete them? I want the 90+ GB's of space back please. Tried safe mode,still they won't go. Then I tried some software that removes folders that won't delete and that did the trick except on re-start one of them came back. Deleted it again and so far it's stayed away.

Was it too much to expect that a M$ game would play nice with a M$ O/S? I did it the correct way unless anyone can tell me different.


I'm completely guessing here, but with the size of that install maybe MS did it this way (albeit maybe poorly) for the case of whenever someone has to reinstall? Not an uncommon thing if you're piling up mods and such - well, at least in my experience from FS98 to FSX...

#4536130 - 09/07/20 08:47 AM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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It could have been but that's a big footprint to leave behind. Maybe it should have been an option.

*edit* Turns out I shouldn't have force-removed those folders because now X-Box Game Pass will not install anything to my D,E or F drives, it just gives an immediate error at the commencement of the download. Only option is to install to my C drive (where I don't want the games). This is a really poor design decision by Microsoft,I may have to do a clean install to get around this after looking up possible fixes.

Just a warning to others.

Last edited by Chucky; 09/07/20 06:33 PM.

Q: What did socialist countries use before candles?
A: Electricity
#4536259 - 09/08/20 12:30 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Chucky]  
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Originally Posted by Chucky
It could have been but that's a big footprint to leave behind. Maybe it should have been an option.

*edit* Turns out I shouldn't have force-removed those folders because now X-Box Game Pass will not install anything to my D,E or F drives, it just gives an immediate error at the commencement of the download. Only option is to install to my C drive (where I don't want the games). This is a really poor design decision by Microsoft,I may have to do a clean install to get around this after looking up possible fixes.

Just a warning to others.


Wow what a nightmare. I don't use game pass so I wonder if the same uninstall policy will apply to the game I bought through the windows app store? How arrogant if it does - you can uninstall our game but we are going to lock up your hard drive space?

Chuck, suggest you move this issue to a dedicated thread to be sure it gets the attention of folks driving past and they can add to it.

PS have you started a case with MS support / WIndows support? Would be interesting to hear their excuse!

Last edited by HeinKill; 09/08/20 12:33 PM.

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#4536261 - 09/08/20 12:58 PM Re: New Microsoft Flight Simulator announced ! [Re: Roudou]  
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I will let you know very shortly as I am about to delete Sea Of Thieves (another X-Box Game Pass title) .It will be interesting to see if that does the same.

*edit* Well Sea Of Thieves did in fact uninstall properly and gave me the 50 gig of space back.

I'm wondering if it's because FS2020 was installed to a disc other than the O/S. I'm about to 'refresh' the O/S to see if that fixes it.

Also,rather than clutter up this thread (my apologies Roudou) I will start a new one in the relevant section.

Last edited by Chucky; 09/08/20 01:41 PM.

Q: What did socialist countries use before candles?
A: Electricity
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