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#4530797 - 07/21/20 11:54 AM Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one?  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Does anyone know if any player community polls have been conducted by Eagle Dynamics to gauge how many players would be interested in having a full fledged dynamic campaign in DCS World?

The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to figure out why after so many years, DCS still doesn't have a dynamic campaign along similar lines to the dynamic campaign in Falcon 4. Is it maybe due to the prohibitive cost of designing one or maybe the current DCS engine just doesn't support it?


thanks

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/21/20 11:55 AM.

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#4530801 - 07/21/20 01:17 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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...and who would the 'bad guys' be?

There may be more to it than producing a campaign engine in a global marketplace.

#4530802 - 07/21/20 01:27 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I know it's been asked for on their forums for decades and brushed aside for as long. I personally don't think they can accomplish it given the current spaghetti codebase they have created. They can't seem to fix the current bugs, over 3000, without regressing in another part of the codebase.

It seems to me that the business model is a quick buck with EA eye candy and to that end they keep releasing more new modules. With each new module they provide less in the way of content such as missions or campaigns and rely on third parties to provide the content. And given the bugs and regression issues those pay for campaigns are also perpetually broken and who want's to play those in that state?

So I doubt in the end DCS will ever have a dynamic campaign.


The_GhostRider



Last edited by The_GhostRider; 07/21/20 01:29 PM.
#4530803 - 07/21/20 01:30 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: mikew]  
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Originally Posted by mikew
...and who would the 'bad guys' be?

There may be more to it than producing a campaign engine in a global marketplace.



Just make it a generic "OPFOR". The dynamic campaign doesn't have to have any specific country as the "bad guy".

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/21/20 01:32 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4530804 - 07/21/20 01:31 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Thanks for your reply GhostRider. It's much appreciated.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4530822 - 07/21/20 02:46 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Does anyone know if any player community polls have been conducted by Eagle Dynamics to gauge how many players would be interested in having a full fledged dynamic campaign in DCS World?

The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to figure out why after so many years, DCS still doesn't have a dynamic campaign along similar lines to the dynamic campaign in Falcon 4. Is it maybe due to the prohibitive cost of designing one or maybe the current DCS engine just doesn't support it?


thanks


They did a poll back in 2015:
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151627&page=3

As to why it isn't there... I don't know what is the official E.D. line on that now. Speculation:
1. It would be difficult / expensive to create.
2. How many people would be satisfied with the results?
3. Maybe they farmed it out to somebody, or tried to. They have had issues with some 3rd party work in the past.
4. Maybe they took a stab at it, and abandoned it.

I have no idea, and I rarely go over to E.D.'s site. It does seem like a lost opportunity.

#4530850 - 07/21/20 06:13 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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They are working on it. It's actually on their roadmap and they have reported on some of the progress they've made (IIRC it wasn't much progress but there was some).

I'll have to look for the post...

edit - here it is:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4287187&postcount=1


Dear Community, dear Friends,

We hope you are well and that you and your families are safe and not too distressed in these tough times. We also hope you enjoyed last month’s “Stay at Home” event. It was a new and refreshing adventure we trust was well received by the community as we registered a very large number of users who took advantage of the free to fly opportunities, despite the rather short 2-day time limits for each module.

In the light of the ongoing difficulties we are all facing, we have decided to go the extra mile and will be announcing a similar but enhanced event in the very near future. We really hope it will meet with your approval and enthusiasm.

Thank you again for all your comments I received following my previous post on Reddit/Hoggit.

Your remarks were extremely helpful, insightful and encouraging too.

Today I would like to share some information pertaining to the DCS: Supercarrier early access release date, the F/A-18C Hornet and F-16C Viper roadmaps and our updated pipeline.

DCS: Supercarrier

We have been working hard towards the announced release date of April 15th. Sadly, we were unable to work through all the issues in order to ensure a satisfactory Early Access release.

The main “no-go” for me and I am sure for you too, is Multiplayer behavior which still suffers from certain non-game breaker bugs which were confirmed on Saturday, April 11th. Today we have a new plan and will be working overtime to bring you this long-awaited product. I actively follow the threads, in particular “April 15th 2020” and I understand how disappointed you are, but I am confident you will agree that Multiplayer needs a bit more love.

DCS: F/A-18C Hornet

Since my previous post we delivered 4 FLIR pointing modes which were a substantial task to develop. We have prepared a bug fix update for this week and we are working to deliver the following features by the end of April:
Completion of the Litening Targeting Pod
Dynamic launch zones and AUTO LOFT mode for JDAM
AG radar: Real Beam Ground Map (MAP)
SLAM air-to-surface missile

During the spring and summer, we plan to work on a range of Flight Model enhancements that include Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS), autopilot modes, and about 30 related features and issues.

DCS: F-16C Viper

For the last two months, we have mainly focused on bug fixing and small improvements. A new developer joined us recently and is working hard on the AGM-65D Maverick air-to-surface missile, which we hope he will be delivering by the end of April.

We will be increasing our efforts on the navigation system starting in May. Improvements will include the update of the steerpoint system permitting in-game mission planning and cursor zero (CZ) will also be added.

Our general roadmap hasn’t changed substantially since February 20th:
Ka-50 cockpit update was delivered.
Fw 190 A-8 Anton was released out of Early Access.
New Damage Model is progressing well and will be presented to you in the near future.
Enhanced Aircraft AI was added to active phase of development together with FLIR.
A-10C II moved to active phase of development.
Lighting and terrain improvements were pushed back a bit to.
Enhanced Asset Pack, Supercarrier and helicopter Multi-crew now have deadlines.
Hornet received its final list of features to be delivered this year, but this is a topic of a future update.

Current projects in active development phase:


DCS Core:
[ Near Term ] 2.5.6 preparation for the stable release (FPS improvement)
[ Near Term ] Damage Modeling for WWII Aircraft
[ Long Term ] Weapon improvement (missile dynamics, new AI units), final AIM-120B dynamics to be released very soon AIM-120C to follow
[ Mid to Long Term ] Voice Chat
[ Long Term ] Dynamic Campaign
[ Long Term ] Enhanced Aircraft Artificial Intelligence

DCS Graphic Engine:
[ Near Term ] Special effects update
[ Long Term ] Multi-threading
[ Long Term ] Vulkan API integration
[ Long Term ] New FLIR engine

Modules:
[ April 2020 ] WWII Asset Pack update
[ April-May 2020 ] Supercarrier EA
[ May 2020 ] Huey Multi-crew
[ Q2 2020 ] P-47D Thunderbolt EA
[ Q2-3 2020 ] The Channel EA
[ Mid Term ] Mariana Islands
[ Dec 2020 ] F/A-18C Hornet out of EA
[ Mid to Long Term ] F-16C Viper
[ Mid Term ] Modern Air Combat
[ Mid Term ] A-10C Warthog II
[ Mid Term ] Mi-24P Hind

Near Term - we have the final list of tasks to be done before we share it in DCS World and expect delivery in less than 6 months.

Mid Term - we have a firm list of tasks and we trust that it might be delivered in less than 9 months.

Long Term - we have an initial list of tasks but still a lot to add and do not have exact expectations. Some Long term tasks can be delivered partially in iterations, some need to be fully completed.

Projects that are in the passive development phase (waiting for a 3D model delivery, developers allocation, reference gathering stage or one of the current active project to be finished first):

DCS Core:
Damage Modeling for modern aircraft
Airfield ATC

DCS Graphic Engine:
Terrain lighting
Terrain improvement
Clouds. This task is planned to be started again in May 2020.
Weather update
Full Air-to-Ground Radar

Modules:
Yak-52 Release
Ka-50 Black Shark 3
Mosquito FB MK.VI

ED has 4 items in Early Access:
F-16C Viper
F/A-18C Hornet
Yak-52
WWII Asset Pack

We plan to deliver all products out of Early Access this year however, the F-16C Viper is likely to be in Q1 2021, but we’ll keep you updated.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to all your comments.

Thank you all for your passion and support.

Yours truly,

Kate Perederko
Chief Operating Officer
Eagle Dynamics

Last edited by malibu43; 07/21/20 06:23 PM.

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#4530889 - 07/21/20 10:23 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Vaderini Offline
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I would take that roadmap with a grain of salt, a lot of the items on it have been on there since at least 2015, with no progress. The fact that it only counts 4 items as "early access" also says a lot.

Mbot did some great work with his Dynamic Campaign Engine, and is probably as close as we get to a "full" dynamic campaign, so I would look there.

#4530939 - 07/22/20 12:01 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to figure out why after so many years, DCS still doesn't have a dynamic campaign along similar lines to the dynamic campaign in Falcon 4. Is it maybe due to the prohibitive cost of designing one or maybe the current DCS engine just doesn't support it?



It probably won't ever be LIKE F4 exactly because the engines don't operate the same well. There are practical issues to overcome, I suspect the worst of which is AI behavior - that's before we talk about assigning bodies to the work.
But, ED is always keeping it on the roadmap, lately they're more on the 'want to work on it' side than the 'won't do' side.


--
44th VFW
#4530940 - 07/22/20 12:03 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. Now it's back to learning the F/A-18 and MiG-21 for me! smile

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/22/20 12:04 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4530983 - 07/22/20 05:13 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: mikew]  
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Originally Posted by mikew
...and who would the 'bad guys' be?



This is an important point...what historical/theoretical conflict can you make with period correct ground assets etc? I would love to see a Korean war era campaign but I don't think DCS has the assets/units needed to make one.
A lot of simmers like to re-enact war scenarios and DCS has missed the mark with what's available.


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#4531086 - 07/23/20 02:05 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: Force10]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by mikew
...and who would the 'bad guys' be?



This is an important point...what historical/theoretical conflict can you make with period correct ground assets etc? I would love to see a Korean war era campaign but I don't think DCS has the assets/units needed to make one.
A lot of simmers like to re-enact war scenarios and DCS has missed the mark with what's available.



I would think a North Korea map and scenario for a dynamic campaign would be acceptable and politically correct for most of the DCS player base?

I mean unless there's some burgeoning North Korean DCS community that I'm not aware about....


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4531114 - 07/23/20 07:30 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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North Korea, Iran, China, Russia....


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4531298 - 07/25/20 06:59 AM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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For that matter, you could make a dynamic (or at least semi-dynamic) campaign where both sides are playable . . .

#4531374 - 07/25/20 06:53 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Who is YOU?

#4531531 - 07/27/20 03:17 AM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Who is YOU?



"You" in a general sense. It's not referring to anyone specifically.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4531549 - 07/27/20 06:42 AM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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I would buy every module if DCS had a Falcon BMS comparable dynamic campaign.

#4532942 - 08/07/20 04:20 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Well shiver me timbers! I just got this email from Eagle Dynamics a few minutes ago.

Dear Fighter Pilot, Partners and Friends,

This week we are excited to share our progress on DCS World Dynamic Campaign Engine. This is quite a big step for us and despite the slow progress, we are optimistic that it will be a great enhancement to DCS. We cannot give you a firm initial OB release date yet as things are still quite raw, but we will keep you updated regularly as the next milestones come to pass.

Our third-party partners TrueGrit Virtual Technologies are working hard on the DCS: Eurofighter Typhoon. Please check out some of the cool stuff they are up to below.

We would like to thank our internal and external Beta-Testers Teams for the relentless testing and reporting in the lead up to the upcoming OB in mid August. We are optimistic about the rate of bug squashing and trust that performance will also improve in the coming releases.

Thank you for your passion and support.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4532947 - 08/07/20 05:30 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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They’ve been saying the exact same thing for years about AI behavior and AI flight models, ground radar, ATC, stable builds, damage modelling, etc... I wouldn’t get your hopes up that we’ll see it in the next couple of years at least. They’re too busy building in voice chat to care about the small things smile

#4532955 - 08/07/20 06:47 PM Re: Dynamic campaign - why isn't there one? [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted by Vaderini
They’re too busy building in voice chat to care about the small things smile


I just can't understand that either. Who is clamoring for in game voice coms? Are there people who can't get Skype, Discord, Teamspeak or any of the other FREE voice coms programs?


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
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