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#4529078 - 07/07/20 08:28 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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If it's at all possible - depending upon where you live, budget, etc. I think I'd seriously consider getting a cheap SSD - 120s can be had for less than $20 these days - and remove your system's boot drive (for safe keeping) /replace it with the new "test" unit, and install Windows from scratch, the AMD drivers, and then do the WOFF install (per relevant instructions; including DirectX and so on).

This way you can see if the issue is resolved with a clean system install, without losing whatever other stuff you may already have on your system. If it works, then you have a starting point to approach the issue from (and a new level of confidence as to system config/drivers/Windows/your new AMD card). If it doesn't work, you've only lost some time and $20 or so to purchase a cheap test drive. If you want, let me know and I'll even buy the drive once you're done if the cost is an issue. I'd offer to send a you a blank one, but the shipping is enough that it's better to buy it local (or get Amazon/Newegg/etc to ship you one for cheap/free).

There are other ways to do the same thing - create a 'system image' (or 'cloning' or 'ghosting' your boot drive) but they also cost money and/or need stuff you might not have, so probably cheapest/easiest to just get another drive.

The idea here is to establish - just as a troubleshooting step - whether a clean Windows install (with updates) and current AMD drivers will run with a properly installed WOFF. This will help rule out other "system goofiness" causing your problem. Again, just as a test - what you do next will need to be determined based on the outcome of the test, but fall off that bridge when you get there.

HTH smile

#4529137 - 07/08/20 12:12 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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This all started with the new build, cpu, MB, GPU, RAM, and a 1TB NVME m2 drive. old system had Win 7, this was an upgrade to Win 10. When reinstalling WOFF, I followed the instructions from the toolbox, incl. registry and user/Appdata filles. New install and clean reinstall chipset and gpu drivers, using amd uninstall and DDU programs. I'm thinking that there's something stuck somewhere on my system that doesn't like AMD, that I'll have to come across by dumb luck; I had already put the old NVidea card back in and that worked, which seems to lean towards an AMD conflict somewhere.

Last edited by loftyc; 07/08/20 12:28 PM.
#4529144 - 07/08/20 12:37 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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If I may ask - just to clarify, please - you say 'this was an upgrade to Win 10' but then mention "New install and clean reinstall chipset and gpu drivers..."

So, was it an upgrade or a clean install? Sorry, I'm somewhat confused.

A Windows 10 upgrade on an existing system/drive and a clean install (from scratch) are two very different critters biggrin

Thanks smile

If it was a clean install (with only drivers and Windows updates added), then WOFF - and nothing else, then I would agree it sounds like a conflict between AMD new stuff and the older guts/content of WOFF.

EDIT: You probably already took this into account, but that GPU (5600XT) was actually only introduced in January 2020, which would explain why there aren't official drivers for it before then (and also probably why drivers before that cause problems, as well). As was mentioned above in this thread, there was a point when a few people with newer AMD GPUs had to run older drivers to get WOFF to work; that was some time ago too.

This is sometimes a problem with hardware (and the associated drivers) being "too new" for older games. Many people build/maintain older "legacy" systems (including an older OS, drivers etc) just to run specific older game(s); for example, building an old system around the 3Dfx cards to play games that were popular during that period.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 07/08/20 01:09 PM.
#4529155 - 07/08/20 02:11 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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I upgraded win 7 to win 10 on the old system, and then put together the new system, booted using Win 10 from the old drive, newly installed chipset and gpu software, and finally cloned the old drive disc onto the new clean m2. I created a 2nd partition (H:)on the m2 and then copied all my flight sims to that. Thus, I had on the m2 a C: drive to boot and run systems, and H: for flight sims, and I kept all my other games on another older HDD (D:). In the process of trying to fix my problem, I have since cleaned and reinstalled the chipset and GPU drivers. so, if all that makes sense, Win 10 was an upgrade from 7, and the AMD drivers were originally a clean install on the new build, and since then reinstalled.

I did just try running WOFF from the old HDD, but no change.

yup, I know that the 5600xt is new, but I figured to try a legacy driver anyway in case. I also know about the 12 Mbps vs 14 Mbps issue for the 5600xt, and I have the later version, and I read lots of good things about its performance compared to similar Nvidea cards, and that the 3600 cpu compared favorably to similar intel chips, and so I figured overall that I was doing something good. The thing about maybe this being "too new" for WOFF is that the sim runs, and it runs all the other files, incl other texture files. what is it about just the rivers and surrounding terrain??

#4529156 - 07/08/20 03:03 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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OK, if I'm following, what you effectively have is a system upgraded from Windows 7 to Win10. You upgraded, then moved that drive to the new system. Of course, the (potential) problem with doing this is that you're 'carrying' everything over from the old system - good and bad. It is entirely possible that what's going on is being caused by something that was moved, but would not be there (or would be different somehow) in a clean installation.

I'd recommend you do I as I described above: Get a drive (from wherever you choose) and install W10 from scratch. Again, installing from scratch is very different from upgrading (which is what you've actually done, for all intent). If not having the installation media (for clean W10 install) is a problem, it's easy to download. If not having a spare drive is an issue, buy one and I'll pay you for it (you pay shipping, please). Given the level of aggravation and fruitless effort you've already expended over this, I'd say that doing what I'm suggesting is a small thing, comparatively.

The problem as I see it is - potentially...very possibly - there's something on the existing installation which could be interfering with the sim running. The only way you're going to know - that is, the only way to confirm your setup just will not work in Windows 10 - is to start from scratch (not an upgrade).

As for the 5600XT, the issue there could be that the drivers are just too new to work with older software like WOFF**. However, this question is more or less pointless unless/until we answer the question of whether a clean install will resolve the issue. There are millions upon millions of things on that old setup that could be at issue, and there's very little way you're going to stumble into the one that might make the difference. I've been working around software and developers well over 35 years now, and I've even seen examples where the exact order things were originally installed in was the difference. What are your odds of duplicating this? And what's that going to require in terms of time and effort, versus doing the clean install? It takes an hour or two, and you need a clean drive, that's it - moreover, if it doesn't work then, you'll know absolutely that it's just not something you are (likely) to resolve.

Once again - and I cannot emphasize this strongly enough here - an upgrade is not the same thing as a clean install. In my opinion, there's a fair chance your problem is being caused by the old stuff on your upgraded system - and there's only one way to rule that out.

I hope this makes sense.

EDIT: As regards my comment "...the issue there could be that the drivers are just too new to work with older software like WOFF"; this is as applies to your question "... the sim runs, and it runs all the other files, incl other texture files. what is it about just the rivers and surrounding terrain??"

Drivers can cause a single component to fail or appear incorrectly, and since we're not in a position to 'deconstruct' the driver (thus allowing us to selectively use which parts work with WOFF and which parts don't), there's really little choice but to take the package as a whole. If it turns out there are issues with WOFF, they'll need to be resolved at the driver level by AMD - but a. we don't know that unless you try the clean install approach, and b. If the problem is a driver conflict of some sort, it's always possible AMD could ultimately do nothing, because it's not a compelling concern for them.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 07/08/20 03:24 PM.
#4529202 - 07/08/20 10:15 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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You speak words of reason; give me a few days to get another drive, and I'll get back. hopefully with good news.

#4529204 - 07/08/20 10:37 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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Thank you smile I feel it is a reasonably wise approach, and of course I hope for the best.

Keep in mind, there were others with AMD cards who reported problems with newer drivers. I hope we find you are an exception to those reports - I actually have two fairly new AMD setups here I'm working with ATM and, like you, I feel the hardware is a solid alternative to Intel/Nvidia. But, that being said, if the drivers cause problems with (insert favorite game here) it becomes difficult to endorse that choice.

TBH I would bet that - even if you were to find this is a problem you can't get around in this sim - newer games don't have this issue. Like any company, I think AMD would focus its limited resources on what makes up the most of the market they support; unfortunately, I don't think a mod for a 18-year old game is going to be high on their list.

But, I am actually fairly optimistic that you'll find the clean install is the trick. Perhaps the biggest reason I say this is the point you make about the game working overall. Let's hope it is just some 'goofiness' from the upgrade/move (I've seen it before) smile

I look forward to hearing more...best of luck!!

#4529214 - 07/09/20 12:34 AM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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Lofty, have you tried installing Oldham’s river mod from Sandbagger’s site? That mod replaces the standard tiles. You may want to try that on the off chance that the river tiles that come with WOFF have somehow become corrupt. It’s an unlikely scenario since you’ve reinstalled WOFF a few times, but it doesn’t hurt and it doesn’t cost a single cent.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4529325 - 07/09/20 04:46 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: Fullofit]  
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Lofty, have you tried installing Oldham’s river mod from Sandbagger’s site?


yup already did that, actually; I'd say 'great minds think alike,' but I don't want to drag you down to my level.

#4529345 - 07/09/20 05:52 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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Heh, heh. It was worth a try.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4529746 - 07/13/20 11:55 AM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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so.... installed new ssd, clean windows 10 install, and since there was no record in the registry, I did a clean WOFF UE install. and................. no good.
I had previously reinstalled my Nvidia card and it worked then, so I'm thinking it's some sort of specific AMD conflict with something somewhere, that may never be solved (see attachment!)

Attached Files unnamed.jpg
#4529770 - 07/13/20 01:41 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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Loftyc;

It may be time to think about putting an Nvidia card in your future, and yes, your attached cartoon has been known to cast a shadow in my life at times as well. For what it's worth, we all have those moments!

I wish you a bright future in resolving your problem.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
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CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4529771 - 07/13/20 02:28 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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That's really a shame.

Although it's not the desired outcome - certainly not what you or I wanted to see - it is the only other possible outcome that could realistically be expected. And now you know.

As unfortunate as it may be, I think now you have a conclusive answer: It would appear this sim has an issue with later AMD drivers (and thus new hardware that requires those drivers) working properly.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a chance AMD could find/fix the problem - however this depends on whether they believe it's something worth the resources it would require. On the whole, both AMD and Nvidia do well with keeping drivers updated and addressing compatibility issues. But, of course, they apply resources first to newer games.

I suppose there's also a very small chance there's a setting somewhere that will overcome the problem. Maybe you can find something online; I wish I knew somewhere you could try looking, but my experience with AMD is limited.

Maybe consider trading the AMD card for a comparable Nvidia unit? At least you're not out the cost that way, and you get the performance you were after.

Sorry I am no more help frown

#4529918 - 07/14/20 11:33 AM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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outcome aside, I do want to thank everyone for their help and ideas. There are worse things that could happen to me... let's go fly!

#4540155 - 10/09/20 09:53 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: Polovski]  
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Originally Posted by Polovski
Ok, pretty much out of ideas and you say you did a clean install (i.e.removed all traces of WOFF) and reinstall.
No one else has reported that so it can only be something on the system. What is the issue.

Is Windows 10 fully up to date too?

I've had dry rivers from day one, I thought it was a bug and just ignored it. frame rate not to special ether, from 60 dropping to low 30's. spent hours if not days trying to sort it.
And gave up with one of my joysticks.
I'm a 64 year old carpenter, I'll make anything out of a few bits of wood. But looking at all that time consuming stuff suggested in the FAQ just makes my thick head spin.
So not a question just saying there is at least one more set of very dry rivers at Flanders..

#4540157 - 10/09/20 10:10 PM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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jnhoward, if I may ask...could you tell us what specific video card you're using, please? Probably be a good idea to list your system specs (CPU, RAM, etc) if it's within your means to do so.

If you've already said somewhere, I apologize, but I don't see it. Feel free to correct me.


Thanks smile

Edit, Belay my last. Just found it. Late model AMD (5700xt). If I'm not mistaken, there has been discussion about the problems with this sim and newer AMD GPUs / newer drivers, some time ago. Maybe I can find the thread(s) again...

LOL Wrong again..
.darn my failing memory. Apparently the discussion long ago was about Radeon HD cards not working with newer AMD drivers in this sim. I apologize for confusing that with this discussion, in my zeal to be of help.

That said, there does seem to be something up with textures and newer AMD cards/drivers. Maybe it'd be good to start a thread with something in the title to indicate AMD cards/owners, maybe find a consensus. Just a thought, FWIW.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 10/09/20 10:39 PM.
#4540217 - 10/10/20 11:33 AM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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I suppose I should feel a little better knowing that I'm not alone, and that it's not specific to my rig. jnhoward, I feel your pain and frustration...

#4541256 - 10/18/20 08:58 AM Re: missing river water textures [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
jnhoward, if I may ask...could you tell us what specific video card you're using, please? Probably be a good idea to list your system specs (CPU, RAM, etc) if it's within your means to do so.

If you've already said somewhere, I apologize, but I don't see it. Feel free to correct me.


Thanks smile

Edit, Belay my last. Just found it. Late model AMD (5700xt). If I'm not mistaken, there has been discussion about the problems with this sim and newer AMD GPUs / newer drivers, some time ago. Maybe I can find the thread(s) again...

LOL Wrong again..
.darn my failing memory. Apparently the discussion long ago was about Radeon HD cards not working with newer AMD drivers in this sim. I apologize for confusing that with this discussion, in my zeal to be of help.

That said, there does seem to be something up with textures and newer AMD cards/drivers. Maybe it'd be good to start a thread with something in the title to indicate AMD cards/owners, maybe find a consensus. Just a thought, FWIW.

My setup I put together myself. It's a b450 tomahawk max m/board with a Ryzen 5 3600x, 16gb Vengeance LPX 3600mhz ddr4 RAM, and a Radeon RX 5700 XT card. Radeon software version 20,9,2. [it says it's up to date].
The river is the least of my problems, after the very poor frame rate. This setup works reasonably well on other games such as 'Rise of Flight', 'CLOD Blitz', All of the IL2" 'Great battles' series and 'Elite dangerous'. I've spent hours on YouTube looking for answers but can't see anything obviously wrong. I like the general feel of this sim best out of all of them but losing patience with it fast. If a course in computer programming is required to sort this out, then I will probably just uninstall the game and go back to Rise of Flight.. I think this game needs an update to sort it out !.
PS I don't have the time to spend going through hundreds of hours of FAQs.
If someone could give me some answers [but not just it 'works on mine' coz that's never helpful] I would be very happy.
Thanks 'maybe'..

#4546778 - 12/02/20 01:30 AM Re: missing river water textures [Re: loftyc]  
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I have the same issue. AMD card as well.


AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT.
v 20.11.2 driver




Last edited by R.Talbot; 12/02/20 01:32 AM.
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