Hi, me again, with another problem; To refresh, I have upgraded to an AMD cpu (R5 3600) and Sapphire pulse rx 5600xt, and peripherals, all of which I understood would be better. Well, now I'm at least airborne, but I've noticed that I have no water in either the Lys or the Somme. I've attached pics, the Lys is in June '16, and the Somme is January '17, So I think that removes the season and year as the issue. I've done a clean reinstall (again!!), and have vanilla PE, no mods. Seriously, did I make a mistake going with AMD? I've got to believe the hardware is fine, but I know that for the past 10+ years and two older systems I've had rivers...

(insert crying, frustrated, head-banging, hair-ripping emoji here)

Lofty, I have nothing to add except I hope it's just due to summer drought!

Hope you get it resolved!

Something I have never seen in years of doing this but maybe you did not install DirectX9 or the latest video driver needs installing (or reverting) I guess. Looks like the blending of the river texture isn't working on your PC.

Hooray for me!

I reverted and then reupdated the video drivers, both without success. I re-re-reinstalled, and noticed that I was not presented the option to install DX9 (WOFF UE - patch 4.24 - WOFF PE - patch 5.04) there was a panel to repair C++, which I did. In the toolbox, there is a DX redist.exe with lots of packed DX packages in there; I checked that all those are indeed already in my c:\windows folder. for kicks, I downloaded a DX9 installer, but my windows 10 won't run it.

I also checked that river .dds's are in the WOFF scenery folder. they are, with lovely water there. oh, and I can see oceans and lake water.
anyone with AMD experience about a box somewhere that needs to be checked or unchecked? Is there one particular spot that I need to hit with a hammer??

You MUST install DirectX9. No WOFF does not offer to do it.
It's in the WOFF UE FAQ section 4 tells you how.

Ignore Windows 10 whining about it and continue.

shoot, I didn't look for that in the FAQ since I thought I had it covered. so I ran it, and it did whatever it needed to do, but still no joy for the rivers. OK, the FAQ says to do that step right after installing UE, and I did it after everything; not sure that it matters, but what the hey, I have time, so I'll do it all again.

Lofty, the DX9 setup has two stages 1st unpacks the DX9 install files, 2nd step you run DXSetup from the temp folder you unpack too, did you did that?

Made sure no old graphic mods are there, Reshade, Sweetfx etc...

yup, unpacked and then ran the setup. no other such graphics mods there. tried changed terrain setting (set to 1, 3, and 5) in workshop, but no change.

Then could be a driver issue or setting, provided all WOFF files are installed OK.
Maybe try different GPU settings, AA off etc (possibly you are "adding" to the AA already in the sim so running out of memory or something else) OR try an older driver perhaps.


Quick googling seems there were AMD issues with background programs using hardware acceleration that was mroe to do with BSODS and black screens etc so probably not that. Maybe close down other apps.
https://community.amd.com/thread/248239
https://steamcommunity.com/app/782330/discussions/0/2143092024473245536/

Hopefully is it something else.

I tried current and previous drivers; in AMD Radeon Software, disabled everything, and tried all combinations of their AA options.

when I get a chance, I will put back my old GTX660Ti to confirm that it is something to do with my new card, in which case my only hope is someone at AMD. Boy, I sure am glad I spent all that money to upgrade.....

edit: yup, the old card works. looks like it's an AMD thing.

Bit late to this thread, but from what I've been able to gather across the internet....some tips maybe worth trying are included below:

a) version of drivers 20.2.1 and above supposedly fix the problem (for the relevant AMD GPU)

b) turn off GPU (hardware) acceleration option in Discord, Chrome, and any other programs where you have GPU acceleration turned on, on your computer, and reboot for it to be turned off

c) remove registry keys for previous video card and then re-install the control panel and drivers for your latest AMD vid. card

d) set RAM speed from 2400 to 3000 MHz

e) this option taken from the internet is a more detailed one, to fix crashes on the 5600xt card, but might work also for other anomalies - always read directions carefully before attempting any of this ----->

-----
1. uninstall radeon software (if freezes or has error dont worry goto 2)
2. run amd clean up utility (if freezes or has error dont worry goto 3)
3. boot windows into safe mode with networking (hold shift while clicking reboot in windows)
4. download and install display driver uninstaller
5. uninstall all gpu stuff and chipset stuff , using ddu , (display driver uninstaller)
6. reboot
7. check device manager, make sure display adapter says generic device, if not repeat steps 1 - 6

8. download amd chipset drivers directly from amd, selecting the appropriate categories (for AMD CPU users,,,, (((i would imagine the same would hold true for intel cpus),
( i didnt use ones from my mobo manufacturer)
9. install the latest correct chipset drivers only from amd, (intel for blue team) ( NO ADRENALIN OR GPU STUFF FROM AMD)

10. reboot
11. download adrenalin, unpack it, (( it will show a generic unzip progress bar, let it finish, when the fancy splash screen comes up that say "do you want to install adrenalin" "CLICK CLOSE / NO ****** DO NOT INSTALL ADRENALIN OR ANY AMD GPU SOFTWARE **** we are just unpacking it to get to the drivers
12. goto device manager right click on generic display driver, hit update driver
> select "browse my computer for driver software"
> choose "let me pick from a list......"
> choose "have disk"
> goto the folder that adrenalin unpacked to ussually c:\amd , im not sure what subfolder it is in, i think one that says adrenalin, either way locate C0353065.inf (i beleive there was a driver subfolder and like a win32 / win64 etc folders, choose the one appropriate for your system) (this may differ slightly for diff versions in the future) click ok, choose the top 5600 xt driver, click next,

13. (this should install the driver without adrenalin, device manager should now say "5600 xt" under display adapters)
>>>>>>>>>>> reboot
-----

Original posts are here on this AMD thread, for those interested (https://community.amd.com/thread/248239).

Hope some of this info. helps,
Von S

thanks for the ides, VonS;
a)-d) I had done
I had deleted and reinstalled the drivers, but not as thoroughly as in e). So, I followed the instructions, and...... it didn't work. (again, insert head-banging emoji here. twice, in fact)

For kicks, Iv'e sent off the problem to AMD customer support, but I can't imagine what's left to do. Having it work with the old card does seem to indicate that it's an AMD thing, but what is "it" ???

edit: two other things I've found:
1) I had another texture problem with seeing through the hulls in Silent Hunter 4. sounds similar, huh? well, the above fix worked for that!!!! hooray!
2) I activated xjouve's water mod, and see that water is added in some places, but the original river texture is still there. I would have thought that the original textures would be completely replaced?

I know some people swear by ATI/AMD GPUs - they are good value and so on.

I used to work in IT in a large company and we had endless driver issues with ATI cards. For me the experiences then put me off, but they started to buck up with the ATI 8500 and then the ATI 9700 PRO in 2002.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R300_series
This wiki says it all for me

"The 9700 would be the second of ATI's chips (after the 8500) to be shipped to third-party manufacturers instead of ATI producing all of its graphics cards, though ATI would still produce cards off of its highest-end chips. This freed up engineering resources that were channelled towards driver improvements, and the 9700 performed phenomenally well at launch because of this"

Also I used AMD CPUs for a while, but eventually switched back to Intel and NVIDIA and saw an immediate slickness and better compatibility with drivers and so on never looked back. I want AMD to succeed, as competition helps us all but drivers have to be top notch.

So really before the 9700 Pro and sometime afterwards ... not so great drivers. I wonder if the same people are still there making new drivers.

Saying that we have not had other reports with AMD cards causing an issue like this, but maybe try as you say, backup your system then put your NVidia back in and drivers and dx9 and see?

As far as I've been able to see on my rig., the original rivers still stay on the terrains in WOFF even with Xjouve's water mod. added (at least with stock terrains) - also possible is that the original river is still there with his large "Global Layer & Co" installed - but I'll have to load up the global layer one of these days to re-check - I think it was there that way too but I'm flying my campaigns with the stock terrain for now and nibbio's in-flight map.

I recommend applying the "lite" tweak to Xjouve's total water patch ver. 1.1, as indicated at the link here:

https://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads....casual-campaigns-woff-thread#Post4524783

It minimizes crossover/intersecting between the stock river and new ones that the water patch installs (the lite tweak also helps with fps).

Von S

yup, that's what I did, and the rivers show, just like before. so now, I can choose between old card, with rivers, but less graphics/performance in all games, or new card, no rivers, better everywhere else. Philosophically, I know life has lots of choices to be made, but this shouldn't be one of them.

Also, note that my SH4 does now work, without adrenaline running, which points less towards a driver problem and more towards something in that software suite. Am I missing anything by not having that running (image sharpening, etc)? I posted over in an AMD forum, but no one has suggested anything yet : https://community.amd.com/thread/254824
It says that "No one else has this question" there either, so I guess that makes me doubly special?

OK yeah no worries, I didn't mean it would fix WOFF's rivers appearing if you mod the game, I meant for the blending issue. WOFF's rivers are made differently so yes the mod won't delete them.

Maybe disable anti aliasing totally and test. Then try anisotropic filtering off, and any new features, try other settings in the drivers one at a time maybe. Set to override game settings (or whatever its called in AMD software).

I would also recommend you to "downgrade" your graphic card (AMD) drivers and install older ones ("older" means at least one or two years old). I have had similar experience with AMD video card (HD7870) and new drivers running WOFF in the past. That is also why I finally turned to nVidia.

tried all that already.enabled/disabled a whole bunch of combinations, no effect. I also tired the earliest driver I could find for this GPU, from january '20, and then the next earlier ones I found that would run in windows 10 were from 2017; none of those worked, and in fact with the 2017 ones, WOFF wouldn't even run (DLL crash).

I'll keep messing around a little more if I can come up with something to mess with; otherwise I may have to live with dry rivers for a few years until I decide to get another GPU.

Ok, pretty much out of ideas and you say you did a clean install (i.e.removed all traces of WOFF) and reinstall.
No one else has reported that so it can only be something on the system. What is the issue.

Is Windows 10 fully up to date too?

If it's at all possible - depending upon where you live, budget, etc. I think I'd seriously consider getting a cheap SSD - 120s can be had for less than $20 these days - and remove your system's boot drive (for safe keeping) /replace it with the new "test" unit, and install Windows from scratch, the AMD drivers, and then do the WOFF install (per relevant instructions; including DirectX and so on).

This way you can see if the issue is resolved with a clean system install, without losing whatever other stuff you may already have on your system. If it works, then you have a starting point to approach the issue from (and a new level of confidence as to system config/drivers/Windows/your new AMD card). If it doesn't work, you've only lost some time and $20 or so to purchase a cheap test drive. If you want, let me know and I'll even buy the drive once you're done if the cost is an issue. I'd offer to send a you a blank one, but the shipping is enough that it's better to buy it local (or get Amazon/Newegg/etc to ship you one for cheap/free).

There are other ways to do the same thing - create a 'system image' (or 'cloning' or 'ghosting' your boot drive) but they also cost money and/or need stuff you might not have, so probably cheapest/easiest to just get another drive.

The idea here is to establish - just as a troubleshooting step - whether a clean Windows install (with updates) and current AMD drivers will run with a properly installed WOFF. This will help rule out other "system goofiness" causing your problem. Again, just as a test - what you do next will need to be determined based on the outcome of the test, but fall off that bridge when you get there.

HTH

This all started with the new build, cpu, MB, GPU, RAM, and a 1TB NVME m2 drive. old system had Win 7, this was an upgrade to Win 10. When reinstalling WOFF, I followed the instructions from the toolbox, incl. registry and user/Appdata filles. New install and clean reinstall chipset and gpu drivers, using amd uninstall and DDU programs. I'm thinking that there's something stuck somewhere on my system that doesn't like AMD, that I'll have to come across by dumb luck; I had already put the old NVidea card back in and that worked, which seems to lean towards an AMD conflict somewhere.

If I may ask - just to clarify, please - you say 'this was an upgrade to Win 10' but then mention "New install and clean reinstall chipset and gpu drivers..."

So, was it an upgrade or a clean install? Sorry, I'm somewhat confused.

A Windows 10 upgrade on an existing system/drive and a clean install (from scratch) are two very different critters

Thanks

If it was a clean install (with only drivers and Windows updates added), then WOFF - and nothing else, then I would agree it sounds like a conflict between AMD new stuff and the older guts/content of WOFF.

EDIT: You probably already took this into account, but that GPU (5600XT) was actually only introduced in January 2020, which would explain why there aren't official drivers for it before then (and also probably why drivers before that cause problems, as well). As was mentioned above in this thread, there was a point when a few people with newer AMD GPUs had to run older drivers to get WOFF to work; that was some time ago too.

This is sometimes a problem with hardware (and the associated drivers) being "too new" for older games. Many people build/maintain older "legacy" systems (including an older OS, drivers etc) just to run specific older game(s); for example, building an old system around the 3Dfx cards to play games that were popular during that period.

I upgraded win 7 to win 10 on the old system, and then put together the new system, booted using Win 10 from the old drive, newly installed chipset and gpu software, and finally cloned the old drive disc onto the new clean m2. I created a 2nd partition (H:)on the m2 and then copied all my flight sims to that. Thus, I had on the m2 a C: drive to boot and run systems, and H: for flight sims, and I kept all my other games on another older HDD (D:). In the process of trying to fix my problem, I have since cleaned and reinstalled the chipset and GPU drivers. so, if all that makes sense, Win 10 was an upgrade from 7, and the AMD drivers were originally a clean install on the new build, and since then reinstalled.

I did just try running WOFF from the old HDD, but no change.

yup, I know that the 5600xt is new, but I figured to try a legacy driver anyway in case. I also know about the 12 Mbps vs 14 Mbps issue for the 5600xt, and I have the later version, and I read lots of good things about its performance compared to similar Nvidea cards, and that the 3600 cpu compared favorably to similar intel chips, and so I figured overall that I was doing something good. The thing about maybe this being "too new" for WOFF is that the sim runs, and it runs all the other files, incl other texture files. what is it about just the rivers and surrounding terrain??

OK, if I'm following, what you effectively have is a system upgraded from Windows 7 to Win10. You upgraded, then moved that drive to the new system. Of course, the (potential) problem with doing this is that you're 'carrying' everything over from the old system - good and bad. It is entirely possible that what's going on is being caused by something that was moved, but would not be there (or would be different somehow) in a clean installation.

I'd recommend you do I as I described above: Get a drive (from wherever you choose) and install W10 from scratch. Again, installing from scratch is very different from upgrading (which is what you've actually done, for all intent). If not having the installation media (for clean W10 install) is a problem, it's easy to download. If not having a spare drive is an issue, buy one and I'll pay you for it (you pay shipping, please). Given the level of aggravation and fruitless effort you've already expended over this, I'd say that doing what I'm suggesting is a small thing, comparatively.

The problem as I see it is - potentially...very possibly - there's something on the existing installation which could be interfering with the sim running. The only way you're going to know - that is, the only way to confirm your setup just will not work in Windows 10 - is to start from scratch (not an upgrade).

As for the 5600XT, the issue there could be that the drivers are just too new to work with older software like WOFF**. However, this question is more or less pointless unless/until we answer the question of whether a clean install will resolve the issue. There are millions upon millions of things on that old setup that could be at issue, and there's very little way you're going to stumble into the one that might make the difference. I've been working around software and developers well over 35 years now, and I've even seen examples where the exact order things were originally installed in was the difference. What are your odds of duplicating this? And what's that going to require in terms of time and effort, versus doing the clean install? It takes an hour or two, and you need a clean drive, that's it - moreover, if it doesn't work then, you'll know absolutely that it's just not something you are (likely) to resolve.

Once again - and I cannot emphasize this strongly enough here - an upgrade is not the same thing as a clean install. In my opinion, there's a fair chance your problem is being caused by the old stuff on your upgraded system - and there's only one way to rule that out.

I hope this makes sense.

EDIT: As regards my comment "...the issue there could be that the drivers are just too new to work with older software like WOFF"; this is as applies to your question "... the sim runs, and it runs all the other files, incl other texture files. what is it about just the rivers and surrounding terrain??"

Drivers can cause a single component to fail or appear incorrectly, and since we're not in a position to 'deconstruct' the driver (thus allowing us to selectively use which parts work with WOFF and which parts don't), there's really little choice but to take the package as a whole. If it turns out there are issues with WOFF, they'll need to be resolved at the driver level by AMD - but a. we don't know that unless you try the clean install approach, and b. If the problem is a driver conflict of some sort, it's always possible AMD could ultimately do nothing, because it's not a compelling concern for them.

You speak words of reason; give me a few days to get another drive, and I'll get back. hopefully with good news.

Thank you I feel it is a reasonably wise approach, and of course I hope for the best.

Keep in mind, there were others with AMD cards who reported problems with newer drivers. I hope we find you are an exception to those reports - I actually have two fairly new AMD setups here I'm working with ATM and, like you, I feel the hardware is a solid alternative to Intel/Nvidia. But, that being said, if the drivers cause problems with (insert favorite game here) it becomes difficult to endorse that choice.

TBH I would bet that - even if you were to find this is a problem you can't get around in this sim - newer games don't have this issue. Like any company, I think AMD would focus its limited resources on what makes up the most of the market they support; unfortunately, I don't think a mod for a 18-year old game is going to be high on their list.

But, I am actually fairly optimistic that you'll find the clean install is the trick. Perhaps the biggest reason I say this is the point you make about the game working overall. Let's hope it is just some 'goofiness' from the upgrade/move (I've seen it before)

I look forward to hearing more...best of luck!!

Lofty, have you tried installing Oldham’s river mod from Sandbagger’s site? That mod replaces the standard tiles. You may want to try that on the off chance that the river tiles that come with WOFF have somehow become corrupt. It’s an unlikely scenario since you’ve reinstalled WOFF a few times, but it doesn’t hurt and it doesn’t cost a single cent.

yup already did that, actually; I'd say 'great minds think alike,' but I don't want to drag you down to my level.

Heh, heh. It was worth a try.

so.... installed new ssd, clean windows 10 install, and since there was no record in the registry, I did a clean WOFF UE install. and................. no good.
I had previously reinstalled my Nvidia card and it worked then, so I'm thinking it's some sort of specific AMD conflict with something somewhere, that may never be solved (see attachment!)

Loftyc;

It may be time to think about putting an Nvidia card in your future, and yes, your attached cartoon has been known to cast a shadow in my life at times as well. For what it's worth, we all have those moments!

I wish you a bright future in resolving your problem.

That's really a shame.

Although it's not the desired outcome - certainly not what you or I wanted to see - it is the only other possible outcome that could realistically be expected. And now you know.

As unfortunate as it may be, I think now you have a conclusive answer: It would appear this sim has an issue with later AMD drivers (and thus new hardware that requires those drivers) working properly.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a chance AMD could find/fix the problem - however this depends on whether they believe it's something worth the resources it would require. On the whole, both AMD and Nvidia do well with keeping drivers updated and addressing compatibility issues. But, of course, they apply resources first to newer games.

I suppose there's also a very small chance there's a setting somewhere that will overcome the problem. Maybe you can find something online; I wish I knew somewhere you could try looking, but my experience with AMD is limited.

Maybe consider trading the AMD card for a comparable Nvidia unit? At least you're not out the cost that way, and you get the performance you were after.

Sorry I am no more help

outcome aside, I do want to thank everyone for their help and ideas. There are worse things that could happen to me... let's go fly!

I've had dry rivers from day one, I thought it was a bug and just ignored it. frame rate not to special ether, from 60 dropping to low 30's. spent hours if not days trying to sort it.
And gave up with one of my joysticks.
I'm a 64 year old carpenter, I'll make anything out of a few bits of wood. But looking at all that time consuming stuff suggested in the FAQ just makes my thick head spin.
So not a question just saying there is at least one more set of very dry rivers at Flanders..

jnhoward, if I may ask...could you tell us what specific video card you're using, please? Probably be a good idea to list your system specs (CPU, RAM, etc) if it's within your means to do so.

If you've already said somewhere, I apologize, but I don't see it. Feel free to correct me.

Thanks

Edit, Belay my last. Just found it. Late model AMD (5700xt). If I'm not mistaken, there has been discussion about the problems with this sim and newer AMD GPUs / newer drivers, some time ago. Maybe I can find the thread(s) again...

LOL Wrong again...darn my failing memory. Apparently the discussion long ago was about Radeon HD cards not working with newer AMD drivers in this sim. I apologize for confusing that with this discussion, in my zeal to be of help.

That said, there does seem to be something up with textures and newer AMD cards/drivers. Maybe it'd be good to start a thread with something in the title to indicate AMD cards/owners, maybe find a consensus. Just a thought, FWIW.

I suppose I should feel a little better knowing that I'm not alone, and that it's not specific to my rig. jnhoward, I feel your pain and frustration...

My setup I put together myself. It's a b450 tomahawk max m/board with a Ryzen 5 3600x, 16gb Vengeance LPX 3600mhz ddr4 RAM, and a Radeon RX 5700 XT card. Radeon software version 20,9,2. [it says it's up to date].
The river is the least of my problems, after the very poor frame rate. This setup works reasonably well on other games such as 'Rise of Flight', 'CLOD Blitz', All of the IL2" 'Great battles' series and 'Elite dangerous'. I've spent hours on YouTube looking for answers but can't see anything obviously wrong. I like the general feel of this sim best out of all of them but losing patience with it fast. If a course in computer programming is required to sort this out, then I will probably just uninstall the game and go back to Rise of Flight.. I think this game needs an update to sort it out !.
PS I don't have the time to spend going through hundreds of hours of FAQs.
If someone could give me some answers [but not just it 'works on mine' coz that's never helpful] I would be very happy.
Thanks 'maybe'..

I have the same issue. AMD card as well.


AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT.
v 20.11.2 driver