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#4528227 - 07/01/20 02:25 PM Running WOFF from an SSD  
Joined: Aug 2012
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Maeran Offline
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Maeran  Offline
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UK
Hello everyone.

Fortune smiles on me and some savings have matured. I am buying a new PC for myself before passing the rest to the great wedding fund.
The PC I am getting will have a solid state drive (actually 2 SSDs, I bought a second one just for WOFF and a few other programs I use all the time), which is something that wasn't a thing when I last bought a computer.

What is the best way to set up WOFF to run on an SSD? Do I just install to that drive as normal?
What about files that change a lot, like mod files and pilot saves?

#4528244 - 07/01/20 03:19 PM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: Maeran]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Maeran;

Keep all WOFF and game files on the second SSD. WOFF Mods are a subdirectory under WOFF as are the pilot related files. The other files that are WOFF related will be on your Boot drive and If I understand you correctly, it will also be the first SSD.

You should be good to go. That is the config I run.

Best Regards and Congrats!!


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4528433 - 07/02/20 06:18 PM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: Maeran]  
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loftyc Offline
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um, suppose, hypothetically, that someone (else, obviously) was not as tech-savvy as I am. Why would installing on an SSD be any different than on a regular HDD?

#4528443 - 07/02/20 07:55 PM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: Maeran]  
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VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
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@Lofty,

Those less tech-savvy than you would usually be given the explanation that files load more quickly on an SSD than a spinning hard drive, the theory being that this gives more responsive loading and smoother flying in flight sims, such as WOFF.

Having said that, once everything is loaded up - theoretically - there shouldn't be that much difference between hard drive types. Bigger bottlenecks are probably CPU speeds, no. of cores, plus GPU speeds/frequencies. (I used to have decent performance in WOFF, in WineSkin, on my Mac Mini from 2012 - even though it has the lowly 5400 rpm 2.5 inch (mobile) HDD - and the integrated Intel vid. card, HD 4000 - which is obviously a limitation too - although somewhat offset by the acceptable CPU in that model, quad-core 2.3 GHz i7.)

General rule of thumb for best performance in sims, in order of descending importance of what to focus on, is:

CPU
GPU
hard drive

And I'm sure that there are a myriad of variations therein that are good enough, such as excellent cpu being okay with a very good gpu, or maybe a very good cpu coupled with an excellent gpu, etc. I'm sure that our tech. specialists will pitch in with more info. - I'm just going from hands-on experience on my rigs. (old-school Mac head here smile2).

Von S


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4528467 - 07/02/20 11:12 PM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: Maeran]  
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loftyc Offline
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ah, that's what I thought (or would have), and thank you for confirming all that.

Now, if I could just get the rest of everything to work again (see my post about missing rivers!!)

#4528471 - 07/02/20 11:41 PM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: Maeran]  
Joined: Jan 2016
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kksnowbear Online content
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VonS:

I have to respectfully disagree - or at least raise a point of clarification:

Years ago, many people claimed that SSDs did not improve game performance, other than at "loading time". There are two issues with this; one is that 'loading' doesn't just occur at a single point, up front, in games the way perhaps it might have long ago, and two is that SSDs themselves have evolved significantly over time.

Most all games load things as you go through the map, or environment (whatever that entails in each specific game; sometimes it's a house, for example, as opposed to an outdoor map). All this detail is not loaded up front; it is loaded as you move through the environment, with progressively more detail as you get closer to areas/objects. That means things are constantly "loading".

This is one reason the stutter happens in WOFF - it comes from loading "things" (broadly and generally), be they sounds or bits of terrain, or what-have-you. Now, absolutely nothing is going to eliminate that pause (or dropped frames, or micro-hiccup, or whatever the PC term is these days), certainly not any current GPU technology.

What will help, though - and potentially quite a lot - is the absolute fastest way to get a chunk of data to "load". (When we say 'load', what we're referring to is moving from permanent storage into the GPU RAM or system RAM.). So, this should illustrate that faster storage can have a considerable impact on smoothness (the opposite of pauses, hiccups or whatever...).

Also, with regard to speed, SSDs themselves have come quite a way: The earliest units were barely faster than plain hard disks, limited by a SATA 1.5Gb/s bus transfer rate ("SATA I", even though the SATA consortium doesn't recognize that term). Then, they moved to SATA II (3.0Gb/s; again, still not a recognized term) which increased speed enough that most hard drives were left behind. Finally, SATA III came along - 6Gb/s - allowing roughly 5-6 times the rate of data transfer of a hard disk. The interface was now fast enough that it made a noticeable difference in 'loading' anything (including games and the aforementioned movement therein).

Moving forward, SSD speeds have continued to increase, due mostly to improved transfer protocols (NVMe) and getting off the SATA interface entirely, in favor of PCI Express. Now, using NVMe/PCIe 3.0 drives on newer motherboards (and for about the same cost), SSDs are 5-6 times faster than the SATA III types (which were themselves ~5 times faster than conventional hard disks).

And the newest motherboards have now implemented PCIe 4.0; roughly twice the bandwidth of 3.0 - and the newest PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs are capable of twice the speed of PCIe 3.0 drives, which means 10 times the speed of SATA III SSDs, and thus 50 times the speed of conventional hard disks.

So, it can make a huge difference, depending on the type of SSD - and 'loading' is essentially a constant during any game play (especially, as is the case with WOFF, flight sims - since aircraft generally must keep moving in order to remain airborne biggrin )

I hope this makes sense and offers some enhancement to the subject being discussed.

I would also argue that most games/sims will actually benefit more from stronger GPU than CPU - WOFF/WOTR may be exceptional in this regard, but there have been recent discussions that perhaps CPU speed is not as much a factor as originally claimed.

In any event, more modern software relies extensively on the processing ability of GPUs, which has actually advanced past CPUs in certain areas (which is one reason why GPUs are used for mining).

Regards,


Last edited by kksnowbear; 07/02/20 11:45 PM.
#4528474 - 07/03/20 12:11 AM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: Maeran]  
Joined: Jun 2012
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
KK some very very good points and well explained. Tnx.

Best Regards


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4531195 - 07/24/20 02:27 PM Re: Running WOFF from an SSD [Re: loftyc]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 729
Maeran Offline
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Maeran  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 729
UK
Originally Posted by loftyc
um, suppose, hypothetically, that someone (else, obviously) was not as tech-savvy as I am. Why would installing on an SSD be any different than on a regular HDD?


That person would be me smile

Thank you for your replies and information gentlemen. I have WOFF running from my SSD now and it is running noticably faster. I haven't started tweaking graphic yet, but with my saved settings from the old pc I've gained an average of 20 fps on the old machine. 1918 used to need a drop in settings, butvI think it should hold up well now. Of course, my campaigns in 1917


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