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#4526360 - 06/19/20 07:16 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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#4526425 - 06/20/20 07:51 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
DCS is, probably, one of the most ambitious flight sim projects, ever.

It's a handful of guys making inaccurate models of military hardware on a game engine from the 1990's. Il-2, Condor Soaring and even FSX is miles ahead of what ED does.

Quote
No combat flight simulator has ever tackled military airplanes in such a detailed manner.

Yet they haven't even finished a handful of their modules

Quote
What they are attempting to accomplish isn't easy, and it's why it takes five years for an airplane to be released.

It takes 5 years to complete because they have no knowledge about their own capabilities and about what the projects costs in time and effort, break the engine a gazillion times on the way, try to juggle a dozen balls in the air at the same time, feature creep like mad and don't have the technology to do what they want to do. An attitude of "We'll do the difficult stuff last, AFTER we've sold it to the suckers", isn't really a durable business strategy.

Quote
I'd be surprised if there weren't any issues. I've had very few in the years I've been running it.

In the recent Corona trial, I found:
- You couldn't launch from carriers
- AIrcraft blew from the tarmac when starting from parked at high wind speeds
- Dials going haywire liked being possessed
- The flight models of propeller aircraft breaking in bad weather

And a plethora of specific module stuff that I reported on the ED Forums but get ignored as usual, because fixing stuff doesn't sell new modules (but it sure as hell scares away current users)

And i'm not even going into the inaccuracies, insults and attacks from the english-speaking ED staff, and the fact that they've confessed that they're running a pyramid scheme.

Quote
Noone wants to give them credit for what they are doing right.

What are you talking about? Have you even visited Hoggit, Mudspike or the ED Forums? Yet when even a single person dares to open up about the shortcomings, that person gets lynched by the Collective Opinion™. And then ED dares to wonder why they don't sell more products... (Oh wait, it's because it's too ADVANCED and COMPLICATED)

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But they'll be a army of posts saying how much they such because someone noticed that a building is in the wrong place on a map, somewhere.

Hyperbole only dillutes your arguments

#4526468 - 06/20/20 03:22 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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A gazillion times?!?! Vaderini. Wow that's a lot

#4526531 - 06/20/20 09:51 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Yeah, I was amazed as well

#4526539 - 06/20/20 10:35 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Pooch, it seems that our opinions and experiences are not wanted here...they disrupt the beautiful echo.


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4526543 - 06/20/20 11:23 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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Originally Posted by VMIalpha454
Pooch, it seems that our opinions and experiences are not wanted here...they disrupt the beautiful echo.


Well...if you come here and post rhetoric like this:
Originally Posted by Pooch

Noone wants to give them credit for what they are doing right.


You should expect some push back. I quick look at the threads here in the last 6 months is about 80% positive to 20% negative. It just makes it seem like your fondness for the developer has you jaded so anything negative is a personal attack on you.


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#4526545 - 06/20/20 11:54 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
I quick look at the threads here in the last 6 months is about 80% positive to 20% negative. It just makes it seem like your fondness for the developer has you jaded so anything negative is a personal attack on you.


Funny. The general vibe I usually get when in this channel, or ED's Discord, or other social media, is that many people are loudly and unreasonably upset with almost anything ED does. That's my observation, for what it's worth. The only reason I even posted in here to begin with was to offer my own opposing take on things, because, to me, DCS is super fun and impressive. Is it perfect? No. Is it pretty stinkin' awesome? I would say yes!

Last edited by VMIalpha454; 06/20/20 11:54 PM.

"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4526551 - 06/21/20 02:13 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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Originally Posted by VMIalpha454
Originally Posted by Force10
I quick look at the threads here in the last 6 months is about 80% positive to 20% negative. It just makes it seem like your fondness for the developer has you jaded so anything negative is a personal attack on you.


Funny. The general vibe I usually get when in this channel, or ED's Discord, or other social media, is that many people are loudly and unreasonably upset with almost anything ED does. That's my observation, for what it's worth. The only reason I even posted in here to begin with was to offer my own opposing take on things, because, to me, DCS is super fun and impressive. Is it perfect? No. Is it pretty stinkin' awesome? I would say yes!


Fair enough on some points there. I thought Pooch was mostly referring to here at SimHQ...I don't visit any other ED related sites often.

That said...saying people are "unreasonably" upset is your opinion. You don't know what they might have gone through with ED over the last decade...$250 backers from the WWII fiasco that got the shaft (yes...ED was officially listed as a "partner" on that venture) Pre-order Nevada bonus that was 4 years late...heavy handed forum/community beat downs...etc.

It's amusing that you think that "many" people are upset for no reason whatsoever. I'm glad your experience has been positive...just realize that hasn't been the case for all. Myself...I've been waiting for the actual "combat" to get some attention to this combat simulator so I can get my moneys worth out of the modules I have...been waiting for 7 years?

I know...I know...you just have to be patient...this sim has potential! We've been hearing that for a decade.


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#4526557 - 06/21/20 03:13 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10

That said...saying people are "unreasonably" upset is your opinion. You don't know what they might have gone through with ED over the last decade...$250 backers from the WWII fiasco that got the shaft (yes...ED was officially listed as a "partner" on that venture) Pre-order Nevada bonus that was 4 years late...heavy handed forum/community beat downs...etc.


Although I wasn't really into DCS then, I remember most of what you are talking about. I don't carry the baggage from that bad experience, but I was one of those who got "bait & switched" with the IL2 BOS preorder when it was first released and went all gamey. I mention that to say that it was something that really upset me and I felt betrayed a bit...enough to uninstall the game and write it off. But now, IL2 Great Battles has righted the ship. It would be unreasonable of me to still vilify them for their past missteps, when it isn't representative of the current reality. My opinion, of course, but I don't see behavior on the part of ED that would justify the ongoing vitriol.

Originally Posted by Force10
It's amusing that you think that "many" people are upset for no reason whatsoever. I'm glad your experience has been positive...just realize that hasn't been the case for all. Myself...I've been waiting for the actual "combat" to get some attention to this combat simulator so I can get my moneys worth out of the modules I have...been waiting for 7 years?

I know...I know...you just have to be patient...this sim has potential! We've been hearing that for a decade.


I'm sorry you haven't had a better experience with the game. I don't necessarily think that people have no reason to be upset. What I think is that people have an oversized negative reaction toward what ED is doing now based on things that happened in the past...fairly long ago, in technology time. Perhaps they don't realize the baggage they still carry? Anyway, I don't know how you fly DCS, but I wasn't really into it until I started flying with a group online. Not just in public servers, but flying with a group, trying to do things realistically. That single factor caused DCS to go from a program I never used to one I use every chance I get. I consistently have unbelievably immersive and rich experiences, and I hope that you are able to one day enjoy it as much as I do!


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4526559 - 06/21/20 03:40 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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I'm speaking from a single player perspective in terms of my lack of enjoyment.

You're correct...people might be hanging on to anger for too long. But the component that's different for everyone is...money. Keep in mind that friendships have ended in disputes over as little as $30. This is people that have known each other for quite a while...not a faceless entity like ED. Some people have to work really hard for their money...others not.

My take on money can be summed up from a bumper sticker I saw "Money talks...mine says goodbye"...lol. Anyway...it's pointless to try to tell people what opinion they should have, they have their own history and arrive at their own conclusions no matter what others say.

Cheers!


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#4526560 - 06/21/20 04:06 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
I'm speaking from a single player perspective in terms of my lack of enjoyment.


You're right. DCS leaves much to be desired in single player. Outside of third party campaigns there really isn't any single player experience. Online multiplayer may not be your thing, but I really think DCS shines there...more than any other flight sim I have played. If you aren't opposed to it, I'd recommend checking out some of the virtual squadrons. The group I fly with is virtual Carrier Strike Group Three, flying Hornets and Tomcats, primarily. Virtual Carrier Strike Group THREE

If online gameplay isn't your thing, no worries. I wish you the best, Force 10.

salute cheers


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4526631 - 06/21/20 04:58 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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salute


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______________________________________________________

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#4526766 - 06/22/20 02:30 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Since I started this thread....
I've been working on trying to find out why I'm having issues; first it was problems with the free trial modules, I tried uninstalling the modules; Crash! I tried removing the folders, couldn't join a server that had the security check but could play offline. Uninstalling and reinstalling fixed it. Then the latest update came out, could join a server but then BSOD. So I uninstalled the entire thing and reinstalled to a different drive; Works fine, 48-80 fps depending on where I'm looking but mostly in the high 50's -went online same thing. A friend seems to think I had a bad sector on the drive, I dunno but it works now and I haven't installed all the modules but they are all Lock-On A/C so not really an issue I have the P-51 and A-10 and they work fine. Nothing really explains to me why online made a difference when single player was fine.


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#4526773 - 06/22/20 03:07 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Interesting. So after getting all over my ass because I said that the issue is often at the players end, we find that both posters who were complaining about how awful DCS was because of their issues....found out the the problems were at their end.
That's all I was saying. And I have no doubt that a high percentage of people having problems would find the same thing if they bothered to dive in a bit more deeply into the issues they have.

Last edited by Pooch; 06/22/20 03:11 PM.

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#4526971 - 06/23/20 02:45 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
Interesting. So after getting all over my ass because I said that the issue is often at the players end, we find that both posters who were complaining about how awful DCS was because of their issues....found out the the problems were at their end.
That's all I was saying. And I have no doubt that a high percentage of people having problems would find the same thing if they bothered to dive in a bit more deeply into the issues they have.

Yes, and no. These problems didn't arise just because I was having an issue, they caused the issue as far as I can tell because I didn't have one till they updated. A bad file, an orphaned script I have no clue but no one helped me figure out how to fix it I had to dig and frak with it till I could get it to work, putting it on a bigger drive likely helped too*. Most peoples problems likely arise from the same kinds of creeping update issues it seems because "crash after update" is a very long thread.

*and the answer shouldn't mean a reinstall every time there's a problem

Last edited by KRT_Bong; 06/23/20 02:51 PM.

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#4527017 - 06/23/20 07:48 PM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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I haven't had the crashes after updates, but problems arising from updates seems to be something that flight sim users are just going to have to live with, now. I fly X-PLanes 11 too, and every time there is an update, there are a ton of posts by people who can no longer use this mod, fly that airplane....etc. IL-2, also.
In the old days, you bought a game, and it was done. Complete. Nothing to update. But this seems to be what we have to live with if we want to fly flight simulators.

Last edited by Pooch; 06/24/20 12:34 AM.

"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
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#4535031 - 08/28/20 04:38 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: Slippery_Rat]  
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When DCS world moved to Version 2.5 my system wasnt good enough to run 2.5 AND version 1.5x would no longer run on Win 10.
I complained to DCS support about this and they said they didnt support old version, upgrade.

After upgrading my system months later I tried v1.5 again, now it worked, what changed? Who knows, but while they may have changed something, they aren’t going to admit it. I posted here trying to get it to work, some people here it worked fine, I tried numerous things to get it to work but nothing worked, maybe my system config or hardware I dont know.

Anyway, it left bad taste in my mouth.

#4535032 - 08/28/20 04:39 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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No defense here, but I recently listen to grimreapers interview with Simon somebody, who is the DCS Global Director of Product Development. He says that DCS has 5 million lines of code, and it would be cost prohibitive to release a finished product, they rely on the community to debug everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRKL0yZHvwg&feature=youtu.be&t=1072

DCS seems spread all over, including produce software for various countries militaries.

He said they rely on the community to fine tune their product, he claims they love the community, BUT he says he himself never go to read the ED forum, but rather Reddit. Too much negative comments!?

That said, dont expect any changes with regard to bugs, that is their MO.

Feel good to release frustration with others tho! ;-)

#4536470 - 09/10/20 04:42 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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Ok here’s the rub!

Developers want a constant revenue stream, so they release a product early with bugs. Now over time they start repairing those bugs, but that doesnt generate income, so they start something new in the meantime stop supporting the old product. Now the old product is better but no longer supported. Enter the new buggy app and rinse and repeat.

Upshot is, users never get a completely “finished, bug free application.”

Developers have a steady income stream!

Last edited by Slippery_Rat; 09/10/20 04:43 AM. Reason: Sp
#4536478 - 09/10/20 08:10 AM Re: DCS must get a lot of hate mail [Re: KRT_Bong]  
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I find it ironic, that devs seem to get, sensitive over criticism over what they knowing released in a buggy state.
They dont think about the time and money wasted by their customers.
Wake-up they are in fantasy land!

Maybe as a pre-release version it should be very cheap, and if you want bug fixes you pay a bit more. In that way there is incentive to continue development by the developer, the user gets a cheap but albeit frustrating version (which the dev lets users know of the limitations prior to purchase) allow user to pay for more functionality, BUT that functionality should be well tested not a buggy pre-release. Prices of additional functionality should be a fraction of original purchase.

This could be win-win if they got the pricing right.

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