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#4526150 - 06/18/20 01:12 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy


Then during Operation Barbarossa, Hitler made the mistake of diverting Army Group Center away from Moscow when they were a few KM away from taking in November 1941 to go South and take the caucuses with the oil fields in the UKRAINE. Also by that time the weather has turned and everything was turning from mud to ice slowing the German advance. Operation Barbarossa began in June 1941 and it was delayed by 5 weeks because Hitler's armies were busy in Greece and Yugoslavia.


It was a wet spring so the Greece/Yugo expedition let the ground dry out.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
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#4526153 - 06/18/20 01:20 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Before those, Hitler already made mistakes:



None of those were FATAL mistakes that lead to the ultimate destruction and defeat in 1945. Had Germany stayed at war with only Britain the war would have been a protracted stalemate. Neither side was strong enough to defeat the other. Once Germany invaded the USSR and then declared war on the US a few months later, the entire situation drastically changed.


Imagine if Hitler would had taken Moscow in September 1941 and then offered Stalin an armistice. I think Stalin may have taken it. By that time in late 1941, Stalin had so many casualties and so many taken POW, over 3 millions POW I think. Then Hitler can go back to fighting England and USA was not in the war yet. Of course you are correct when you say he should not had declared war on the USA but that's because he was backing up his ally Japan.


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#4526155 - 06/18/20 01:29 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
but that's because he was backing up his ally Japan.



Incorrect. The Tripartite Pact signed between Germany, Italy and Japan was a DEFENSIVE alliance agreement so Hitler was under no treaty obligation to go to war with the USA since it was Japan which initiated hostilities. Hitler declared war on the USA due to its generous military aid to Britain and role in escorting trans-Atlantic convoys even though it was officially "neutral".


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4526156 - 06/18/20 01:32 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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If Hitler hadn't behaved like an unhinged Nazi, Germany might have won WW2. But then we wouldn't know it as "WW2". Or Stalin would have attacked a few years later, which he seems to have planned anyway. But Hitler being Hitler, he simply could not not attack the USSR, and lead the war effort in the way that he did. So it's a completely pointless debate.

#4526171 - 06/18/20 03:55 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
As mentioned before, "Führer" meant just "leader" as such it's actually a relatively neutral word even today, although of course historical connotations are often still there and can be rhetorically exploited (if your agenda is anti-authoritatian). So you could be the leader of any organization or sub-organization, and then there were entire rank systems based on neo-pagan/pseudo-aryan words "+führer". But of course there was only one who was "Der Führer" without the need for further specification.


Reminds me of a story told me by a lecturer who was with a party of students in the Rhineland (1970s?) who asked their older German host while they were waiting for the youth leader who was to be their guide 'Wo ist der fuehrer?' The old guy replied, straight faced and apparently somewhat sadly, 'Der fuehrer ist tot.' I think that probably disproves notions of Germans lacking a sense of humour!


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#4526172 - 06/18/20 04:00 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: 33lima]  
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Originally Posted by 33lima
I think that probably disproves notions of Germans lacking a sense of humour!



I have several German friends and I can tell you that this stereotype is totally wrong! It's simply that Germans excel at BLACK humor and not so much the slapstick humor that we see so often in English speaking countries.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4526173 - 06/18/20 04:03 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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This may help sorting out all those silly whatsIt Fuhrer ranks and iron cross stuff.

It helped me a lot this AM. biggrin



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#4526174 - 06/18/20 04:04 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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That right there Nixer is one of my top 3 all time favorite Monty Python sketches. Simply brilliant.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4526184 - 06/18/20 04:32 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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I don't think that there is a highly subjective such as sense of humor that can be adequately characterized by national stereotypes, as much fun as it may be wielding them, especially in an internet debate. I know of Germans who have no sense whatsoever of black humor, personally I love it dry, black, or absurdist (and occasionally the plain silly), and of course I love playing with the expectation that I have no sense of humor by trying to stay deliberately stonefaced and robotic in response if I sense that someone wants to test exactly that.

Of course we all have our prejudices. I'm not sure I should try black and/or blasphemic jokes with strangers in the US bible belt although I'm sure that there will be the one or other outcast in these communities who'd get it. I'm drawing the line when it comes to handicaps although, of course, it's another form of excluding people by denying their right to be mocked at, so if in doubt, I'd go with equal opportunity mockery. Some blind people know great jokes about blindness. The question always is, do you go for the humor, or is the intent to denigrate someone with cruel jokes. Needless to say, what's funny for some is cringeworthy for others, and a lot depends on cultural and personal background and situational context.
I mean, just think of the "danger seeker" skit in the Kentucky Fried Movie. I wouldn't characterize it as "racist" per se since the N word is issued in the context of deliberately provoking a dangerous response but I suppose you could tell the same joke in a different way where you provoke a potentially violent response without using a slur. So we're back to the question about equal opportunity mockery...

#4526186 - 06/18/20 04:55 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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I wouldn't try black humour in the liberal areas these days. Likely to get one turned into strange fruit.

#4526193 - 06/18/20 05:51 PM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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All I know, off the top of my head, is that my DVDs of “Blazing Saddles” and "Life of Brian" were, are, and always will be...

rofl



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Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4526261 - 06/19/20 07:06 AM Re: Whats with all the Fuhrer in title? [Re: Lieste]  
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Originally Posted by Lieste
I wouldn't try black humour in the liberal areas these days.

All the more it may be necessary. If certain topics are declared taboo by quasireligious zealots, its the satirists' holy duty to target particularly these taboos. But, of course, this comes with considerable personal risk. As open societies, we've had come farther a while ago. I mean, Monty Python were never against authority per se, just stupid authority. So whenever the laws of what's permissible to say become too rigid and try to force conformity, if you want to keep your open society you have to speak up against it.
:o

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