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#4525808 - 06/16/20 08:29 PM The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII  
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#4525810 - 06/16/20 08:35 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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It was great that we got our hands on it but I don't think the course of the war would have changed appreciably if we had not.


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which The Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984
#4525824 - 06/16/20 10:41 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Nice to know a good getaway tactic if you got bounced though.



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#4525827 - 06/16/20 10:47 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
It was great that we got our hands on it but I don't think the course of the war would have changed appreciably if we had not.


I agree. It really wasn’t that important.


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#4525838 - 06/16/20 11:22 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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There was other Zeros that were captured but just didn't arrive back in the USA before that one.

There also was a certain American in China who was ignored.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4525866 - 06/17/20 03:38 AM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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While it definitely helped refine tactics and airplane design, the Americans had already started to exploit the Zero's weaknesses by June 1942, and were pretty much holding their own by the fall.

I often also see credit for the F6F's design attributed to lessons learned with the Aleutian Zero, but the F6F design process was mostly complete by that point (the first prototype flew only about three weeks after that Zero crashed).

#4525900 - 06/17/20 10:34 AM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
It was great that we got our hands on it but I don't think the course of the war would have changed appreciably if we had not.



+1

My top complaint with many of these online WW 2 articles is that they often have exaggerated click-bait headlines that do not mesh with the historical facts. In my opinion it's best to stick with scholarly books and articles written by actual military historians.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4525905 - 06/17/20 11:03 AM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits
While it definitely helped refine tactics and airplane design, the Americans had already started to exploit the Zero's weaknesses by June 1942, and were pretty much holding their own by the fall.

I often also see credit for the F6F's design attributed to lessons learned with the Aleutian Zero, but the F6F design process was mostly complete by that point (the first prototype flew only about three weeks after that Zero crashed).


And months before it was recovered and restored to flying condition.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4525910 - 06/17/20 11:48 AM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
It was great that we got our hands on it but I don't think the course of the war would have changed appreciably if we had not.



+1

My top complaint with many of these online WW 2 articles is that they often have exaggerated click-bait headlines that do not mesh with the historical facts. In my opinion it's best to stick with scholarly books and articles written by actual military historians.


And then you still have to read 20 books on one plane, tank, battle etc, stir them all round in a pot and it will finally spew out a fairly acurate clear picture biggrin

The amount of 'definitive' books i've read on a certain subject only to be surpassed by another definitive book or 'redefined' book by historians, actual participants etc seems to be a never ending thing. Which isn't all bad as new things do come to light or are looked at from a different perspective, plus hindsight.

The thing that galls me though is how the same old rubbish like 'the Nazis nearly had an A bomb!' or 'this Japanese super sub could have nearly turned the tide' and the like is continually trotted out in articles and videos.


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#4525918 - 06/17/20 12:25 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: Ajay]  
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Originally Posted by Ajay


The thing that galls me though is how the same old rubbish like 'the Nazis nearly had an A bomb!' or 'this Japanese super sub could have nearly turned the tide' and the like is continually trotted out in articles and videos.


Yup! These also amuse me:

1. The Polish cavalry charged German tanks in 1939!

2. Hitler wanted to conquer the entire world!

3. The tide of the war in Europe was turned after D-Day!


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4525921 - 06/17/20 12:53 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Tough crowd! winkngrin

But yeah, you're right. salute

#4525922 - 06/17/20 12:54 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Originally Posted by CyBerkut
Tough crowd! winkngrin



It's SimHQ. We are rivet-counters extraordinaire. biggrin


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4525927 - 06/17/20 01:08 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Or this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler

No one ever mention that.


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#4525929 - 06/17/20 01:12 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Or this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler

No one ever mention that.



You are correct that this is largely unknown among the general population and it goes to show that even the leadership of the Third Reich recognized that many of the things they were doing were not "socially acceptable" to other nations.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4525930 - 06/17/20 01:19 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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That's the Nazi version of the Gulf of Tonkin.


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#4525933 - 06/17/20 01:24 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
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Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
That's the Nazi version of the Gulf of Tonkin.



No


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which The Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984
#4525934 - 06/17/20 01:26 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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No? Why not? Like the 2nd Gulf of Tonkin attack which to this day is still questionable as to it ever happen.


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#4525935 - 06/17/20 01:38 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Totally different circumstances for starters.


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#4525937 - 06/17/20 01:47 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: Ajay]  
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Originally Posted by Ajay
...
And then you still have to read 20 books on one plane, tank, battle etc, stir them all round in a pot and it will finally spew out a fairly acurate clear picture biggrin

The amount of 'definitive' books i've read on a certain subject only to be surpassed by another definitive book or 'redefined' book by historians, actual participants etc seems to be a never ending thing. Which isn't all bad as new things do come to light or are looked at from a different perspective, plus hindsight.

The thing that galls me though is how the same old rubbish like 'the Nazis nearly had an A bomb!' or 'this Japanese super sub could have nearly turned the tide' and the like is continually trotted out in articles and videos.

Or you watch a 5mins guide about the Zero on Youtube. Not that I, or more like the creators claim it to cover it all and be ultimately conclusive. - and all that in 150mins on a channel dedicated to naval history reading

Last edited by WhoCares; 06/17/20 02:08 PM.
#4525945 - 06/17/20 02:28 PM Re: The Crashed Japanese Fighter That Changed WWII [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Here is another of these overblown claims. The Mosquito was an excellent multi-role aircraft, but it didn’t save Great Britain.



Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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