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#4522164 - 05/24/20 01:26 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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smile


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#4522167 - 05/24/20 02:01 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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I prefer the speaking to the voice voiceover. Looking good!


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which The Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984
#4522232 - 05/24/20 07:24 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Lifer

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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
I prefer the speaking to the voice voiceover. Looking good!


I was lucky and the winds were nil, meaning the hangar doors weren't banging loudly.

There have been days I've been up there and the winds picked up from just the right direction and the noise was so loud I had to quit! The sound just builds and reverberates from every hangar on the building to where it's quite impressive.

On the list of stuff to buy, a decent camera I can hook the wireless mic to is unfortunately down near the bottom. I'm just propping my GoPro onto a tripod for these, and it picks up huge amounts of ambient noise. wink


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
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#4523907 - 06/05/20 05:06 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Lifer
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Lifer

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I am enjoying watching the rebuild Dart. Are you finding things easier to build this time around since you already had so many solutions in your tool kit from the original build?


Wheels


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#4524216 - 06/07/20 11:31 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Lifer

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Shame you don’t have her rebuilt yet. You are going to miss some beautiful flying weather this afternoon and tomorrow.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4524219 - 06/07/20 12:11 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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On being easier, it's a wash. Because I'm trying to do things a bit better than before, it takes a little more time. But overall, it's not nearly the learning experience it was the first time around.

Yesterday I was snake bit while working on the airplane. My drill has finally bit the dust, as the chuck on it is worn out and won't grip a bit worth spit any more, and everything just seemed like it didn't want to cooperate with me.

So, using the common sense idea that when one is snake bit, stop playing with the snakes, I packed it in early and just went home.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4524255 - 06/07/20 04:27 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Lifer
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Lifer

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For just eyeballing your rivet spacing you do alright. biggrin

If you want it to be a little bit more consistent you may consider investing in a rivet fan though.
[Linked Image]
The pricing ranges anywhere from $20.00 to an insane $100.00 depending on what can be sourced locally to you.


Video link: https://youtu.be/WMcW9qFOfiE


Wheels

Attached Files rivet_fans.gif

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Wheelsup_cavu

Mission4Today (Campaigns, Missions, and Skins for IL-2)
Planes of Fame Air Museum | March Field Air Museum | Palm Springs Air Museum
#4524299 - 06/08/20 12:20 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Lifer

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Yeah, I could use a fan; we certainly do at work for this kind of task.

But all of it is going to be covered anyhow, and pretty don't make it fly. wink

Indeed, ol' Mike Sylvester, who built a PERFECT KR-2 has been helping out and learning to bite his lip at the various build techniques.

At work, for example, putting in a gusset would be a long process. First it would be aligned, drilled just so at the ends along the longeron, and the gusset removed. The holes would then be measured out for even spacing, drilled, and fitted with clecos. Then it would be removed. All the holes would be deburred, and it would be put back on. Then the first hole for a tube would be put in and cleco'd. Then a line (much like I use) would be drawn and it would be removed. Again, a fan spacer would be used, the holes drilled, everything cleco'd back in place, and then the next tube would get one hole, the line drawn, and the gusset removed. All the holes would be de-burred, of course, once the final set of holes were drilled. The gusset would then be put back on, clecos inserted and removed one at a time as rivets were put in. At the end of the process all the shavings in the tubes themselves would be blown or vacuumed out; for those tube that can't be once they're attached, they'd be cleaned before riveting.

All for no real gain, other than aesthetics. Granted, the corollary to "Pretty don't make it fly" is "but it does win awards and command top dollar," and good ol' C&D Aviation has made more than it's share of trophy winning airplanes.

The soul of tube-and-gusset aircraft like these is ease of build. Make a hole, fill a hole with a rivet. Move on to the next one.

Mike has slowly grasped that I want to make this fuselage somewhat better than the old one, but only somewhat. There's going to be a lot of improvements that matter, but slightly unevenly spaced rivets don't bother me.

I still plan on having the plane in the air by mid August. This is entirely reasonable, as I only have to rebuild the fuselage, half the gear, two wings, re-rig, along with rebuilding the engine, covering everything (it's all getting skinned so I can inspect it well), and painting. The fuselage is actually two thirds done - my videos are behind - as I only have a few gussets on one side to finish before working up a very simple jig to make it three dimensional.

Not to belabor the point, but there's a guy who bought the Nieuport 17 kit about the same time I did; it's the same plane, but his is full scale (Airdrome kinda cheats here). I'll have built my airplane, flown it, flipped it, repaired it, flown it, wrecked it, and rebuilt it before his will take first flight. It will be gorgeous, for sure, but that's not why I'm in the airplane building hobby.

Big news on the tail wheel! I've been kicking gravel on how to improve it, and Mike told me to knock it off and he'd come up with a solution. And he did. Somehow he scrounged up a very nice lightweight tail wheel that uses a carbon fiber strip instead of spring steel, and it'll work out fantastic. Now the tail wheel won't be flopping all around and maybe I can do a landing without fishtailing all over the place. smile


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4524311 - 06/08/20 01:57 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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"Pretty won't make it fly." A blatant lie! Pretty made the Spitfire fly. That's why it flew....'cause it was pretty.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4524358 - 06/08/20 09:59 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Pretty doesn't make it fly, that is true. But even spacing insures a more equal distribution of strain forces and removing burrs helps prevent the formation of stress cracks.

To what degree? Probably not a tremendous amount.


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which The Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984
#4524415 - 06/08/20 01:46 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Living with the Trees
Tail wheel sounds like a BIG improvement man.



"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4524448 - 06/08/20 04:09 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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This has been a fascinating project to watch. The good and the bad. It reinforces my feeling that building wasn't for me. When I had my SONEX, (which I bought already built) I would be asked, "Why didn't you build one, yourself?" It definitely wasn't for me.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4524507 - 06/08/20 08:11 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Me either, but Dart sure is having fun with it.

Fun to follow also.



"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4524681 - 06/09/20 05:52 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Lifer
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Lifer

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Originally Posted by Dart
Not to belabor the point, but there's a guy who bought the Nieuport 17 kit about the same time I did; it's the same plane, but his is full scale (Airdrome kinda cheats here). I'll have built my airplane, flown it, flipped it, repaired it, flown it, wrecked it, and rebuilt it before his will take first flight.


LOL, that is truly a clear figurative argument. biggrin

#4524884 - 06/10/20 09:10 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Lifer

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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Pretty doesn't make it fly, that is true. But even spacing insures a more equal distribution of strain forces and removing burrs helps prevent the formation of stress cracks.

To what degree? Probably not a tremendous amount.


In a heavier aircraft, I'd agree. Remember that the plane weighs less than 500 pounds (226 KG), and less than 700 with pilot and fuel. There just isn't a lot of mass or inertia involved with it, especially considering the low speeds it travels at.

I did a much worse job on spacing the first time around, and in the fall out of the 50+ foot high tree, not a single rivet failed; only two gussets failed - one that I had stupidly put the seat belt mount into and one by the firewall, and it broke through the bending of the engine mount.

Also, this isn't a 50 year aircraft. Assuming I don't wreck it again, it's got around 20 years before it's scrap regardless.

Please, please understand it's not an argument or an attempt to dismiss your thoughts - it's very much appreciated.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#4524902 - 06/10/20 11:54 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Originally Posted by Dart
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Pretty doesn't make it fly, that is true. But even spacing insures a more equal distribution of strain forces and removing burrs helps prevent the formation of stress cracks.

To what degree? Probably not a tremendous amount.


In a heavier aircraft, I'd agree. Remember that the plane weighs less than 500 pounds (226 KG), and less than 700 with pilot and fuel. There just isn't a lot of mass or inertia involved with it, especially considering the low speeds it travels at.

I did a much worse job on spacing the first time around, and in the fall out of the 50+ foot high tree, not a single rivet failed; only two gussets failed - one that I had stupidly put the seat belt mount into and one by the firewall, and it broke through the bending of the engine mount.

Also, this isn't a 50 year aircraft. Assuming I don't wreck it again, it's got around 20 years before it's scrap regardless.

Please, please understand it's not an argument or an attempt to dismiss your thoughts - it's very much appreciated.



Oh I understand and agree. But me being me, a bit anal about certain things, I would probably grab the fan spacer real quick and mark the spacing and spin a deburr in the hole for 3-4 seconds. It wouldn't be perfect and I wouldn't take as much time as I would if I were building an RV-8 but just to satisfy that little corner of my brain that would worry about such things later at 1000 ft agl over a swamp biggrin


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which The Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984
#4525294 - 06/13/20 02:31 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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I blame this on Dart and his dedication to his dream, which is awesome.

I stumbled onto Mike after watching one of Darts runway assaults. wink

I think this guy is kinda like Dart; but with unlimited funds. This crazy guy (in a good way), after having spent years getting engineering degrees, is doing insane carbon fiber home-built stuff. Silly Dart, he squandered his youth in serving the United States of America. salute

Anyway, this guy is very intense, very bright and one hard working MF'er.

Worth a look, and I blame it all on Dart. neaner

edit: Link




Last edited by Nixer; 06/13/20 02:32 AM.


"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4525458 - 06/14/20 04:24 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Dart, you'll appreciate this:


https://youtu.be/0s8UcWU2kr8


"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which The Party is always right." - George Orwell, 1984
#4531134 - 07/23/20 11:37 PM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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oldgrognard Online content
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Lifer

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Dart, the new EAA Sport Aviation has a short article on a 7/8 Nieuport 11 at GA39 in Georgia. Page 106. It is a Graham Lee kit.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4531136 - 07/24/20 12:25 AM Re: 7/8 scale Nieuport 11. [Re: Dart]  
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Dart Offline
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Lifer

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It's very pretty! I like the line about it making for an interesting flying machine! smile

I think when the rebuild is done I'm going to write up a short article about the plane with some pictures and submit it to Sport Aviation.

With over half a million views on the EAA forums, the build thread is by far the most popular.

* On flight characteristics, I've long held that I'm a very average pilot, but a very experienced pilot (former Ag and show guy) told me that if I can pilot a tricky little free flying ruddered short coupled aircraft like this I'm more than okay. He had one of the full scale Airdrome N17's until he sold it to build a full scale Camel kit.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
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