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#4522786 - 05/28/20 04:33 PM Would you purchase a flight sim...  
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MarkG Offline
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...if you thought it was the perfect sim (aircraft, theater, gameplay) except that you were limited to staying in the cockpit with no external views?

Just thinking out loud while doing a little reminiscing...
New combat jet simulators preferences poll



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4522787 - 05/28/20 04:36 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I'm not sure I have ever played a sim where we couldn't use external views. Even Gunship from 1986 had a tower cam, I think...

I know Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer did, as did the original Microsoft Flight Sim, of some sorts.

#4522789 - 05/28/20 04:39 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I would not for the simple reason that real pilots in real planes have much better visibility than any flight simmer has while staring at a computer monitor even with the aid of Track IR or VR. Prohibiting the use of any external views would just be adding an artificial difficulty to the sim.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4522791 - 05/28/20 04:40 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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MicroProse's Project: Stealth Fighter for the C64, I think. smile

Imagine how much excruciating detail would never have to be modeled with having no external views (time, resources, etc.), all out-of-canopy graphics limited only to what the pilot can see.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4522792 - 05/28/20 04:42 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
I would not for the simple reason that real pilots in real planes have much better visibility than any flight simmer has while staring at a computer monitor even with the aid of Track IR or VR. Prohibiting the use of any external views would just be adding an artificial difficulty to the sim.


Fair point. Sometimes we cheat with external views to make up for what we lack behind a screen.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4522794 - 05/28/20 04:48 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted by MarkG
MicroProse's Project: Stealth Fighter for the C64, I think. smile

Imagine how much excruciating detail would never have to be modeled with having no external views (time, resources, etc.), all out-of-canopy graphics limited only to what the pilot can see.



...but the aircraft still needs targets though - so "externals" of other aircraft will need to be done regardless (including wingmen). That being the case, then there is no point in excluding externals for the player craft as it will ultimately need to be done anyway.


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
#4522795 - 05/28/20 05:01 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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DBond Online content
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Yes indeed. This is the way I already play. Elite, BMS, Silent Hunter. I don't use externals.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4522797 - 05/28/20 05:03 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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Another good point, Redwolf. Plus, any military pilot is going to have excellent vision.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4522798 - 05/28/20 05:04 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I had played a Flight Sim without external views granted no combat Flight sim. Back when Flight Sims were New and Pc's sims were young. It was a walk in with a Flight prep Operations room. A darken hallway led to individual Flight cockpits {,no seats had to stand up ) Tower and GCA operator's Big Screen projections. The flight prep included Flight plan, maps, different freq's when talking in air and air to ground a nice fantasy for an hour or so complete with flight overalls and helmet ( one side fits all ) Radio talk was exact Ready for departure, on the roll, number in take off Ect, All the real Airplane talk.
I only went one time because when suiting up a off duty police man was there to fly wearing his gun, Someone asked why the gun and he said in case he crashed while over enemy areas.

#4522799 - 05/28/20 05:07 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
Yes indeed. This is the way I already play. Elite, BMS, Silent Hunter. I don't use externals.


I don't either, but I can see now where a developer would still have to create such detailed graphics regardless. I'm just stuck in my old habit of staying in the pit (going back to F-117 where you had to keep heads down in the MFD screens to survive).



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4522800 - 05/28/20 05:16 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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Wow, carrick58!

I bet some of you civilian sim diehards remember, many years back, a guy had developed a long-time successful 747(?) flight sim for PC (DOS) with no outside graphics at all! It lasted long enough to get a Windows port, but that's the last I heard of it. It was featured in one of my PC Pilot magazines, if I find it later I'll mention it.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4522807 - 05/28/20 05:31 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I'm not sure I could give up external views but if the gameplay was solid enough I'd still like to see a Falklands conflict based sim.

As an aside,I don't use external views for E:D or SC but I have no problem flying in external views in all my flight sims.

Last edited by Chucky; 05/28/20 05:33 PM.

The man who invented sexual innuendos has died. His wife is taking it really hard.
#4522810 - 05/28/20 05:39 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I wouldn’t mind no external views while flying the sim if some sort of replay track does allow for externals smile

Cheers,
Slug


"Major Burns isn't saying much of anything, Sir. I think he's formulating the answer..." - Radar - M*A*S*H
#4522811 - 05/28/20 05:44 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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Only if it had the kind of advanced VR interface that probably won't be available to hobbyists for many years.

#4522814 - 05/28/20 06:14 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: Sluggish Controls]  
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Originally Posted by Sluggish Controls
I wouldn’t mind no external views while flying the sim if some sort of replay track does allow for externals smile


Now I'm reminded of my second sim (and the reason I found SimHQ), Graphsim's 'Hornet Korea'. Their F-18 sim had the most useful and lightweight recorder/playback system. It was always on, never seemed to bog down resources, and created a very small 'tape' file if you chose at the end of a mission to save it. The playback was full screen/full resolution with no VCR button clutter, the replay looking exactly as when you flew the mission, except that you could change to any view that was supported in normal play. You could even do the opposite and stay in the pit during playback if you used external views during the mission. So fast, smooth and convenient (since you never had to hit record). Just an excellent system, IMO.



The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in
Gives way and suddenly it’s day again
The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset, hmph
Could be the human race is run
#4522817 - 05/28/20 07:12 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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To just fly the sim, absolutely in pit only.

However to write/test SP missions/campaigns, external views/ability to jump to other aircraft is almost essential (particularly if you want to do anything more than a very basic mission.

There is also the skinners, screenshot artists, video makers to consider- and these can be an important part of a sims success.

These 'community' aspects can be very important to the life of a sim these days

#4522827 - 05/28/20 07:52 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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Originally Posted by MarkG
...if you thought it was the perfect sim (aircraft, theater, gameplay) except that you were limited to staying in the cockpit with no external views?

Just thinking out loud while doing a little reminiscing...
New combat jet simulators preferences poll



Yes, IF it had VR support for an as of yet unknown VR headset with 4-8k resolution AND it had record/playback ability where I could access an external view.


“Together, let us take up the challenge to reawaken America's religious and moral heart, recognizing that a deep and abiding faith in God is the rock upon which this great Nation was founded.” - Ronald Reagan, May 4, 1982
#4522829 - 05/28/20 07:55 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I never...NEVER...do any serious "flying" in an external view. That said, I do occasionally like to get that kind of out-of-body-experience feeling if I'm just tooling around. I wouldn't say that not having external views available would be a deal-breaker, but it would diminish my fun a bit and I'd miss it at those times in a flight.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4522840 - 05/28/20 08:44 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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Assuming a good sim a lack of external views probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me.

However if the option of photorealistic scenery exists I would sorely miss it.

#4522841 - 05/28/20 08:50 PM Re: Would you purchase a flight sim... [Re: MarkG]  
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I always fly in the cockpit when flying missions... I only use an external view if I intend to take screenshots.
If a decent sim was on the market with only cockpit view and nothing else I'd still buy it...

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