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#4522426 - 05/26/20 02:17 PM Best/good WW2 aviation sim ?  
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Hello,
i wanted to ask which sim/game you would recommend:
Would like to play a good, "state of the art" WW2 sim, i do not know which though. The last ones i played were older MS's combat sims (liked #2 Pacific theatre) and of course the first IL2 and then up to the "gold" and "1946" versions, which were quite a revelation for me at that time.

I have now heard of War thunder (no please), of DCS (few planes though) and the newish (ahem) IL2 sims like Cliffs of Dover and Stalingrad. I am not so much interested in online combat, would like detailed knobs and switches, good flight physics, along with some good campaign and graphics. I would say a good historical campaign would be even more important than graphics.

I heard quite a bit about the shortcomings(?) of Cliffs of Dover, though i have to say what i saw on the 'tube looked spectacular, at least for me ..what do you think about CloD?
Or would you recommend something else?

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

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#4522427 - 05/26/20 02:28 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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IL-2 Stalingrad now known as IL-2 Sturmovik: Great Battles is really the only game in town if you want a realistic WWII flight sim that has current graphics and features.

Cliffs of Dover I dumped after I put about 20 hours into it but that was like 5 years ago. I know some new mods have come out for it so it might be a much better flight sim now.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 05/26/20 02:38 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4522431 - 05/26/20 03:05 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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As PM stated, IL-2 Great Battles has no equal.


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#4522432 - 05/26/20 03:06 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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I agree with Panzer Meyer..The IL-2 Great Battles series is good I have ,,Stalingrad..Moscow,,Kuban and Bodenplatte which is on sale at the IL2-Site but needs IL-2 Stalingrad installed in Steam


Russ
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#4522460 - 05/26/20 04:49 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: rwatson]  
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Originally Posted by rwatson
I agree with Panzer Meyer..The IL-2 Great Battles series is good I have ,,Stalingrad..Moscow,,Kuban which is on sale at the IL2-Site but needs IL-2 Stalingrad installed in Steam

I also agree that IL-2 Great Battles is the way to go. Where I disagree with rwatson post is that you do not need Steam to install IL-2 Great Battles. You can buy direct from the publisher and install it, if however you prefer Steam then that is the way for you to go.


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#4522467 - 05/26/20 05:47 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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Ok, i guess i will pass on CoD and go directly for IL-2 Sturmovik: Great Battles (Stalingrad) then. I have very few games bought via Steam, one of those being Rome Total war when the DVD gave up. Will download it directly from the publisher i think..
Thank you for the recommendation, much appreciated !

All the best,
Catfish

#4522469 - 05/26/20 05:55 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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One thing, though. You mentioned that you like detailed knobs and switches. While the knobs and switches in IL-2 are certainly detailed, they are not clickable. Just making sure that "clickable" isn't what you meant by "detailed."


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#4522475 - 05/26/20 06:13 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Pooch]  
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Originally Posted by Pooch
One thing, though. You mentioned that you like detailed knobs and switches. While the knobs and switches in IL-2 are certainly detailed, they are not clickable. Just making sure that "clickable" isn't what you meant by "detailed."

CoD does have clickable cockpits, and with the Team Fusion updates (which I think now are built in) it works pretty well. They're working on a North Africa expansion, but I'm not sure where they are with it yet.



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#4522478 - 05/26/20 06:26 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Taxman]  
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Originally Posted by Taxman
Originally Posted by rwatson
I agree with Panzer Meyer..The IL-2 Great Battles series is good I have ,,Stalingrad..Moscow,,Kuban which is on sale at the IL2-Site but needs IL-2 Stalingrad installed in Steam

I also agree that IL-2 Great Battles is the way to go. Where I disagree with rwatson post is that you do not need Steam to install IL-2 Great Battles. You can buy direct from the publisher and install it, if however you prefer Steam then that is the way for you to go.


You're right Taxman I read through it too quick yesterday ,,but have Stalingrad anyhow


Russ
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#4522484 - 05/26/20 06:48 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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CoD (at least the current version) is far more multiplayer orientated though, as is DCS, - both not having single player dynamic campaigns and both getting a fair bit of grumbling regarding AI. DCS while trumpeting high fidelity flight and damage models and clickable cockpits (if that is your thing) is rather limited for WW2 (having a great lack of aircraft available) - also very expensive. Remains to be seen what improvement there will be with the upcoming expansion/dlc for CoD, however. Il2 GBS is probably your best bet overall given your criteria - though far from perfect (indeed pretty much everything out there has some real strengths and also weaknesses) -- even OBD's offerings (WingsOverFlandersFields, WingsOverTheReich) have merit - beating the prior 3 in both AI and in-house SP dynamic campaigning (however, not "modern" and lacking the fidelity of other titles). I see you mentioned IL2 1946. You should also consider taking a look at the massive B.A.T mod for it as this really adds a ton and improves a lot.

Best wishes and best of luck in finding what is right for you. smile


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#4522488 - 05/26/20 07:01 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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Great post Redwolf and I had forgotten to mention that a big turn off for me with Cliffs of Dover is that I could tell right away it was geared for the dogfight/adversarial multiplayer crowd.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4522491 - 05/26/20 07:35 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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Yep thanks for the info, the desert dogfight was great to watch. No, i do not want real 'clickable' buttons, but being able to control major settings like mixture or prop setting via keyboard would be great.

I remember "The Mighty Eigth" B17 simulator, where a lot of vital functions for each engine of the bomber could be managed, from fire extinguishers to mixture, to feathering, radiator and so on. Problem was that each time i switched to auto mode all engines would begin smoking and the crew began to bail out. Every f'n time. I was so annoyed i stopped playing this otherwise great sim. Seems i did not have the guts to play through a 2-3 hour mission in realtime and fighting and nursing the plane home after numerous hits.. just to imagine you had to go through this in reality for 25+ times.
Being from Germany i of course have mixed feelings about those bombing missions, but i admit i still was fascinated wink

CoD, just saw this after the desert dogfight, over the channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6u4JxgE2S4 Well made film !

#4522493 - 05/26/20 07:38 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad et. al. have awful AI.

So boring to fight against. Oh look, another long sweeping circle! The AI did the same thing in Rise of Flight, a long, steady, gradual spiral down until they died. Are they ever going to fix the AI?


CoD is gorgeous, but it too suffers from abysmal AI. What ever happened to the smarter AI in the 1946 series?


I love multiplayer, but unfortunately I am an American, and Americans never play flight sims at night. Hell, they don't play any multiplayer games I want to play at night. They like to play stuff like Fortnite and Overwatch and Counterstrike. I guess, maybe, I'm half European, after all? If you aren't European, you can basically forget finding anyone to play flight sims with online during North American evening hours.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 05/26/20 07:40 PM.
#4522501 - 05/26/20 08:41 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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Id only pick IL2 GB up in a sale and as Blastman mentions above at times it has awful AI, yes its getting slowly better but it'll still drive you mad at times. "feeling" of flight is excellent but both Redwolf's and Mr_Blastman's posts nail it for me.

1946 with BAT is excellent, those modders have done a belting job but be warned it takes up a lot of HD/SSD space but absolutely worth it..Best of luck Catfish


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#4522503 - 05/26/20 08:54 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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is there a difference in updates between Il2 GBS from Steam of from the publisher?

IIRC il21946's Steam version was not updated as quick


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#4522504 - 05/26/20 09:02 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Genbrien]  
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Originally Posted by Genbrien
is there a difference in updates between Il2 GBS from Steam of from the publisher?

IIRC il21946's Steam version was not updated as quick



I have a connected account (Stalingrad on steam, and just about everything else purchased from the publisher), but it has been my experience that the updates will appear a bit faster on steam than it arrives for those with only the publisher option (whether it is because they are waiting for it to appear on steam first before releasing or not, I am unsure - to be clear, we are talking about a difference of minutes to an hour or so at most). However, I do know that steam purchase of Stalingrad isn't necessary (it can be purchased from publisher directly) and that purchasing through them (instead of steam) gives them greater revenue and therefore support (as steam takes a kickback from purchases there).

Last edited by Redwolf; 05/26/20 09:09 PM.

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#4522540 - 05/27/20 06:25 AM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Genbrien]  
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Originally Posted by Genbrien
is there a difference in updates between Il2 GBS from Steam of from the publisher?

IIRC il21946's Steam version was not updated as quick


Buy Stalingrad on Steam and then everything else on IL-2's website, link the two, then you get the benefits of Steam while giving extra money to the developer.


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#4522599 - 05/27/20 04:54 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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If you're not using VR, Cliffs of Dover is not to be overlooked. It's older, so cheaper and will perform better, but still looks great and a lot of fun.

Great Battles, on the other hand, has a sublime damage model.

#4522615 - 05/27/20 05:46 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: Catfish]  
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What WW2 games have good AI?


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4522626 - 05/27/20 06:57 PM Re: Best/good WW2 aviation sim ? [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
What WW2 games have good AI?


Top 3 (regarding AI) probably in this order, imho:


#1 Wings Over the Reich
#2 IL2-1946
#3 IL2 GBS (a distant 3rd...but improving over time little by little).


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