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#4519469 - 05/04/20 05:15 PM Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass  
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Chaz Offline
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Current working procedure as of open beta 2.5.6.47404.

UPDATE:: This procedure is valid in Open Beta 2.5.6.49798… Be advised the HUD and FLIR have received some upgrades so things will look slightly different, but TOO coordinates management remain unchanged. The good news is the TGP does not stow itself after pressing undesignate- it stays on the last target.


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#4519662 - 05/05/20 03:13 PM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Chaz]  
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Last night I got 4 targets in one pass with 2 JDAM each on Stations 2 and 8 using WP Designation from setups in the Mission Editor. This is in 2.5.5 release, not the BETA.

I managed to get a TOO1 and TOO2 selected on each station. I pickled them off singly, making sure to switch stations and TOO missions as in the video above. I did have to UNDESIGNATE each time during initial setup when switching stations and TOO missions per station or it would over-write the coordinates (thanks Redkite!). Has this changed now so you can just REDESIGNATE rather than UNDESIGNATE each time before changing Stations/Missions?

It was disappointing that DIRECT HITS on parked MiG-27's resulted in DAMAGE not destruction as in the video above. Did the Beta tweak J82/Mk.82 damage as well?

I will try again using the TPOD designations though my Waypoints were as PRECISE as I could make them in the Mission Editor and the F6 view clearly showed direct hits.

EDIT: So I have to SLIGHTLY retract my statement. Looking more closely, the JDAM's were MISSING. This is another issue as they missed by a fairly wide margin either via WP TGT Designation OR TPOD Point Track TOO modes. I also entered Precise Coordinates directly in PP mode. Same miss. Alternatively the GBU-12 Laser Guided Mk.82 hit perfectly when the aircraft were laser designated and destroyed them. Splash damage from near misses of 500 lbs of explosive still problematic..

Have had JDAM hit precision WP's and TPD TOO targets in other scenarios, so I don't know what is up here... IT did seem that the JDAM trajectory was much flatter than the GBU's...

Attached Files JDAM.jpg
Last edited by Recluse; 05/13/20 02:28 PM.

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#4521034 - 05/15/20 10:13 PM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Recluse]  
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Chaz Offline
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Originally Posted by Recluse
Last night I got 4 targets in one pass with 2 JDAM each on Stations 2 and 8 using WP Designation from setups in the Mission Editor. This is in 2.5.5 release, not the BETA.

I managed to get a TOO1 and TOO2 selected on each station. I pickled them off singly, making sure to switch stations and TOO missions as in the video above. I did have to UNDESIGNATE each time during initial setup when switching stations and TOO missions per station or it would over-write the coordinates (thanks Redkite!). Has this changed now so you can just REDESIGNATE rather than UNDESIGNATE each time before changing Stations/Missions?

It was disappointing that DIRECT HITS on parked MiG-27's resulted in DAMAGE not destruction as in the video above. Did the Beta tweak J82/Mk.82 damage as well?

I will try again using the TPOD designations though my Waypoints were as PRECISE as I could make them in the Mission Editor and the F6 view clearly showed direct hits.

EDIT: So I have to SLIGHTLY retract my statement. Looking more closely, the JDAM's were MISSING. This is another issue as they missed by a fairly wide margin either via WP TGT Designation OR TPOD Point Track TOO modes. I also entered Precise Coordinates directly in PP mode. Same miss. Alternatively the GBU-12 Laser Guided Mk.82 hit perfectly when the aircraft were laser designated and destroyed them. Splash damage from near misses of 500 lbs of explosive still problematic..

Have had JDAM hit precision WP's and TPD TOO targets in other scenarios, so I don't know what is up here... IT did seem that the JDAM trajectory was much flatter than the GBU's...


The challenge with TGP and JDAMs is line of sight. If you aim the TGP directly at the body of the target, the line goes through the target and your lat/long coordinates are offset. So it's best to aim at the bottom of the target and at high altitude like 20k or higher. This will ensure a more top down aim.

And this procedure above works in the latest Open Beta. I didn't try it in the latest stable which I believe incorporates the previous method.

#4521579 - 05/20/20 07:41 AM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Chaz]  
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Originally Posted by Chaz
f you aim the TGP directly at the body of the target, the line goes through the target and your lat/long coordinates are offset. So it's best to aim at the bottom of the target and at high altitude like 20k or higher.


You have to lase the target for the TGP to know that he's not aiming at the ground. If you lase the target, the Bomb will steer exactly to where you aim. Still aiming at where the target intersects the ground should work as well.

#4521602 - 05/20/20 01:00 PM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Sobek]  
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Originally Posted by Sobek


You have to lase the target for the TGP to know that he's not aiming at the ground. If you lase the target, the Bomb will steer exactly to where you aim. Still aiming at where the target intersects the ground should work as well.



Thanks!

I will try that, as well as the intersection with the ground, but it I manage to get direct hits WITHOUT lasing on other targets elsewhere on the map. Also doesn't quite explain why the WP DESIGNATION (which also worked PERFECTLY on other targets) failed spectacularly in this particular case. (and YES, WP Altitude was set correctly).

Maybe something weird with the terrain?? Laser Guided GBU's hit perfectly...as did AGM-65F with handoff from TPOD.


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#4521726 - 05/21/20 09:29 AM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Recluse]  
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Originally Posted by Recluse


Thanks!

I will try that, as well as the intersection with the ground, but it I manage to get direct hits WITHOUT lasing on other targets elsewhere on the map. Also doesn't quite explain why the WP DESIGNATION (which also worked PERFECTLY on other targets) failed spectacularly in this particular case. (and YES, WP Altitude was set correctly).

Maybe something weird with the terrain?? Laser Guided GBU's hit perfectly...as did AGM-65F with handoff from TPOD.


Could be a discrepancy between the INU terrain database and the actual terrain (this might be realistic, as the terrain databases have limited resolution, but could also be a bug). This is the reason why you always want to lase, as that increases the precision of the SPI coordinates. Laser Guidance is a different thing entirely, as the bomb isn't told to fly to coordinates, instead the bomb flys to the point that intersects with the laser. If the laser pointer aim is true, this method of guidance is far less error prone. For the GPS coordinates to be correct (without lasing), the INU/EGI needs a very precise position of the aircraft platform. Also you rely on the INU ground database, which has varying levels of error based on the terrain. If possible, you always want to increase precision by lasing the target with the TGP (some platforms can also use the ground radar to increase precision, but that isn't modelled in DCS yet).

#4521759 - 05/21/20 02:02 PM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Chaz]  
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Makes sense.... I will try it out and see if it makes a difference. Didn't get to it playing with my Shiny New Harrier..


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#4522222 - 05/24/20 06:09 PM Re: Hornet: 8 x JDAM/JSOW (TOO mode) in 1 pass [Re: Recluse]  
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Originally Posted by Recluse
Makes sense.... I will try it out and see if it makes a difference. Didn't get to it playing with my Shiny New Harrier..


OK I tried it out. Yes you guys were right. I dropped 2 JDAM. Fed one the coordinates placing the TPOD on the intersection of the ground and the target and got a perfect hit. The other target I lased first but didn't adjust the aimpoint. Still missed. With that very small dataset I think the right aimpoint is more important than the Laser.

....Tried it also in the Harrier where you MUST Laser Range to feed the coordinates to the JDAM. Mixed results even with targeting the intersection. For objects like Aircraft and vehicles, the Intersection seems to work best. For structures like Chemical Tanks, I had better luck targeting right on top of it.. Again, not enough data to draw a conclusion.


Long system spec sig follows:






PowerSpec G436
Lian Li ATX 205
MSI Z490 Plus Motherboard
Intel Core i7 10700K 3.8 GHz
32 GB RAM DDR4 1600
Nvidia RTX3070

Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
Thrustmaster RCS Rudder Pedals


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