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#4521336 - 05/18/20 05:51 PM Scramble question.  
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Tycoon Offline
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Quick question if you fly to an enemy base will they scramble fighters at you?

#4521339 - 05/18/20 06:02 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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VonS Offline
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I've never experienced this but it's possible - I do however get jumped at my 'dromes sometimes, with enemy aircraft approaching, while I'm still prepping the engine. Perhaps some of our fellow WOFFers have had this experience. I did notice a gunbus over one British 'drome, flying low, while I was going over in an Eindecker at about 2400 m alt. - but I don't know if it was just loitering around and didn't even spot me.

Von S


~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
#4521343 - 05/18/20 06:16 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Oh yes! If they're on the field and about to take off, you will definitely catch them with their pants down. Would have to sift through the many of my vids to find the right one. I'll post a link if I find one.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4521346 - 05/18/20 06:54 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Fullofit]  
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Tycoon Offline
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Oh yes! If they're on the field and about to take off, you will definitely catch them with their pants down. Would have to sift through the many of my vids to find the right one. I'll post a link if I find one.

That's not what I'm talking about, what I'm asking is if airfields will actually respond to your presence by scrambling fighters with the intent of shooting you down.

#4521348 - 05/18/20 07:16 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Yes, sometimes are waiting for you somewhere to scramble and intercept.

#4521351 - 05/18/20 07:42 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Originally Posted by Tycoon
Originally Posted by Fullofit
Oh yes! If they're on the field and about to take off, you will definitely catch them with their pants down. Would have to sift through the many of my vids to find the right one. I'll post a link if I find one.

That's not what I'm talking about, what I'm asking is if airfields will actually respond to your presence by scrambling fighters with the intent of shooting you down.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. As you approach, and if the planes are present on the field, they will sometimes take off and intercept.


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4521354 - 05/18/20 08:00 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Fullofit]  
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Tycoon Offline
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Originally Posted by Fullofit
Originally Posted by Tycoon
Originally Posted by Fullofit
Oh yes! If they're on the field and about to take off, you will definitely catch them with their pants down. Would have to sift through the many of my vids to find the right one. I'll post a link if I find one.

That's not what I'm talking about, what I'm asking is if airfields will actually respond to your presence by scrambling fighters with the intent of shooting you down.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. As you approach, and if the planes are present on the field, they will sometimes take off and intercept.

You say if planes are present, what does that mean exactly? Are those planes just sitting there with no objective until you show up, or do they have their own mission and divert to you when you show up?

#4521358 - 05/18/20 08:32 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Originally Posted by Tycoon
Originally Posted by Fullofit
Originally Posted by Tycoon
Originally Posted by Fullofit
Oh yes! If they're on the field and about to take off, you will definitely catch them with their pants down. Would have to sift through the many of my vids to find the right one. I'll post a link if I find one.

That's not what I'm talking about, what I'm asking is if airfields will actually respond to your presence by scrambling fighters with the intent of shooting you down.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. As you approach, and if the planes are present on the field, they will sometimes take off and intercept.

You say if planes are present, what does that mean exactly? Are those planes just sitting there with no objective until you show up, or do they have their own mission and divert to you when you show up?

They are waiting for you.

#4521362 - 05/18/20 08:53 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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Fullofit Offline
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Triple-J knows what they’re doing - I don’t know if they’re there specifically for you, or have a mission of their own.
Take a look at this video:

When zoomed in, you can see planes on the right sitting on the field (this is what I mean by airplanes present). When you get close to the ‘drome, they will scramble. Were they waiting there for me all along? Who knows?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4521371 - 05/18/20 10:05 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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orbyxP Offline
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Washington State
Basically, amount of planes in a campaign are set from the start and no new planes will spawn to intercept you....



Spawning:
1. A predetermined number of planes spawn based on the air activity selection. I've seen as many as 400 planes spawn in one mission with Ultra setting in 1918.
2. No further spawning of new planes occur throughout the entire mission. Therefore, not all airfields will have planes and most will be empty compared to the amount of airfields that are present in the game.

Scramble:
1. The campaign mission file will contain the airfields that have planes waiting on the field, scanning the skies for enemy planes within a certain radius.
2. If you fly over an airfield that does not have planes waiting, then no new planes will spawn to intercept you.

Other:
If you happen to run into planes that are just taking off for a mission, then they may divert to intercept your group.


Last edited by orbyxP; 05/18/20 10:07 PM.
#4521375 - 05/18/20 10:32 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: orbyxP]  
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Tycoon Offline
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Originally Posted by orbyxP
Basically, amount of planes in a campaign are set from the start and no new planes will spawn to intercept you....



Spawning:
1. A predetermined number of planes spawn based on the air activity selection. I've seen as many as 400 planes spawn in one mission with Ultra setting in 1918.
2. No further spawning of new planes occur throughout the entire mission. Therefore, not all airfields will have planes and most will be empty compared to the amount of airfields that are present in the game.

Scramble:
1. The campaign mission file will contain the airfields that have planes waiting on the field, scanning the skies for enemy planes within a certain radius.
2. If you fly over an airfield that does not have planes waiting, then no new planes will spawn to intercept you.

Other:
If you happen to run into planes that are just taking off for a mission, then they may divert to intercept your group.


Thanks.

#4521381 - 05/19/20 12:02 AM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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It would be nice if they would switch to attack you (I don't know if that is possible). Often they will just sit there forever, which I think is when they have a scheduled mission...


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4521387 - 05/19/20 12:27 AM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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Raine Offline
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Some squadrons are classed as "on alert." I have seen them take off and attack but I believe there may be a calculation similar to the AI's regular attack / not attack calculation.

#4521390 - 05/19/20 12:46 AM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Raine]  
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orbyxP Offline
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I hope the new AI routines that OBD is working on addresses this to make the AI less predictable.

Originally Posted by Rick_Rawlings
It would be nice if they would switch to attack you (I don't know if that is possible). Often they will just sit there forever, which I think is when they have a scheduled mission...

+1.

Originally Posted by Raine
Some squadrons are classed as "on alert." I have seen them take off and attack but I believe there may be a calculation similar to the AI's attack / not attack calculation.

+1. This is true. They will actually take off to intercept you because of the "on alert" directive, but then the AI calculation kicks in and "self preservation" will prevail over defending their homeland.

Last edited by orbyxP; 05/19/20 12:47 AM.
#4521408 - 05/19/20 04:02 AM Re: Scramble question. [Re: orbyxP]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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This is where it might be useful to bump up the morale rating a notch or two for enemy flights or pilots. Next time you get a deep offensive patrol, you might try using the mission editor to bump up the morale of enemy flights at aerodromes on your flight path.

At present, you can only do this on a one pilot at a time basis, but I have already asked Jara for a "one click" morale adjustment button in the ME that might make the process a little simpler, if he can implement it.


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4521410 - 05/19/20 05:57 AM Re: Scramble question. [Re: BuckeyeBob]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBob
This is where it might be useful to bump up the morale rating a notch or two for enemy flights or pilots. Next time you get a deep offensive patrol, you might try using the mission editor to bump up the morale of enemy flights at aerodromes on your flight path.

At present, you can only do this on a one pilot at a time basis, but I have already asked Jara for a "one click" morale adjustment button in the ME that might make the process a little simpler, if he can implement it.

Unfortunately, not so easy to implement sigh .

#4521432 - 05/19/20 01:18 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: JJJ65]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Aye, there's the rub, isn't it? wink

To keep things simple, the "bump" would have to apply to all pilots. Inelegant, but could that work?


“With Major Lawrence, mercy is a passion. With me it is merely good manners. You may judge which motive is the more reliable.”
#4521461 - 05/19/20 02:51 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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Raine Offline
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Given what I've read about the AI work that the devs are doing now, I suspect the behaviour of "on alert" AI aircraft may be affected by the overall improvements to AI attack behaviour. Personally, I think we should wait and see.

#4521462 - 05/19/20 03:02 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Raine]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by Raine
Given what I've read about the AI work that the devs are doing now, I suspect the behaviour of "on alert" AI aircraft may be affected by the overall improvements to AI attack behaviour. Personally, I think we should wait and see.


Can you link or quote the post where Pol talks about the changes to AI? I know its around here somewhere but I just can't find it.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4521482 - 05/19/20 05:15 PM Re: Scramble question. [Re: Tycoon]  
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VonS Offline
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Somewhat related to this thread - for those who are interested in implementing an "interim" solution for slightly more aggressive AI (which may also help with intercepts from 'dromes, etc.) - I recommend the following tweaks as per a couple of older threads here in the WOFF forums where BB, I, and others were thinking out loud about the simulation.xml file, which resides in the main WOFF directory, by the way.

Make a backup of the stock simulation.xml file first, and store it somewhere safe.

Then, go into the simulation.xml file in your WOFF directory, scroll down to the "individual fighter-on-fighter" settings, and change the threshold levels as follows, and save the changes:

fightThreshold="-2"
withdrawThreshold="-3"

Should help to give more persistent/aggressive AI, that still eventually backs off - aggressive but not crazy with values of -2/-3 - AI will still sometimes, this way, for example, engage even if they have minor damage, but no crucial components missing or serious wounds.

For even more aggressive behavior that is essentially the same as picking "AI never backs down" in the WOFF sim menu - go with the following numbers:

fightThreshold="-3"
withdrawThreshold="-4"

Happy flying,
Von S smile2

Disclosure: I fly with the -2/-3 setup for my casual campaigns and quick combats - have noticed no oddities so far either in the UE or PE eds. of WOFF.

Last edited by VonS; 05/19/20 05:18 PM. Reason: Added info.

~ For my various FM/AI/FPS/DM Mods. for First Eagles 2, WoFF, RoF & WoTR, and tips for FlightGear, recommended is to check over my CombatAce profile (https://combatace.com/profile/86760-vons/) and to click on the "About Me" tab while there. ~
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