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#4521249 - 05/18/20 02:18 AM Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C.  
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Very sad news indeed. So far 1 confirmed dead, the pilot, Captain Jenn Casey. RIP
Crashed shortly after takeoff, into residential area.
Sadly, the Snowbirds were touring across Canada to lift spirits.
Canadian Snowbird crash

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#4521250 - 05/18/20 02:23 AM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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This video shows the ejection, the CBC chose not to.

#4521254 - 05/18/20 03:26 AM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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Why did his chute not open?

I've got some angry questions floating around in my head right now. That video is a whole bunch of wrong.

How much longer is this government planning to make them fly those ancient pieces of #%&*$#? They were old when I was a toddler. I'm in my mid thirties now.

Fuming mad about this.

#4521291 - 05/18/20 12:09 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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The Tudor ac are very old and the team has bugger all money. They quite literally carry spare parts with them in the second seat and stuffed into little corners of the cockpit. They often have one plane down for shows and do not have a spare.


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#4521293 - 05/18/20 12:40 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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Technical anomalies were also experienced in this Tutor crash last year: http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en...071-tutor-from-the-investigator/k37g8df1

With this crash also appearing to be technical, I hope the fleet will grounded until it is guaranteed that 'lack of maintenance/faulty maintenance' isn't the cause of the crashes.

#4521294 - 05/18/20 12:46 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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I would think that Canada's Air Show Display Team would deserve newer planes, these planes have been in use since 1963 and the Snowbirds have been flying them since '71 that's a lot to ask of an airframe for aerobatics


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#4521296 - 05/18/20 01:03 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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There's a video that we hear a bang.

might be bird strike or engine problem.

The pitching-up is kinda odd though

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#4521302 - 05/18/20 01:24 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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So far there are no reports on injury or death from residents of the crash site. Incredible really.

#4521312 - 05/18/20 02:37 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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Pitching up would be to get as much altitute in trade of airspeed that is going to go away anyways - think that is pretty SOP for engine problems. Get as much altitute if your engine is gonna die.

#4521320 - 05/18/20 03:50 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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You're also going to want altitude if you think you may have to punch. I don't know what the minimums are on that aircraft, but I doubt it's zero-zero.


Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Why did his chute not open?

The video I saw on this morning's news seemed to show low altitude and a very wonky attitude when the pilot ejected.


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#4521322 - 05/18/20 04:25 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Why did his chute not open?

I've got some angry questions floating around in my head right now. That video is a whole bunch of wrong.

How much longer is this government planning to make them fly those ancient pieces of #%&*$#? They were old when I was a toddler. I'm in my mid thirties now.

Fuming mad about this.

I would answer this, but I want to keep it out of PWEC.

#4521334 - 05/18/20 05:11 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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Originally Posted by WangoTango
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Why did his chute not open?

I've got some angry questions floating around in my head right now. That video is a whole bunch of wrong.

How much longer is this government planning to make them fly those ancient pieces of #%&*$#? They were old when I was a toddler. I'm in my mid thirties now.

Fuming mad about this.

I would answer this, but I want to keep it out of PWEC.


A bird strike can happen to any plane, and if it's single engined it's going to go down, but at least a newer plane would have better ejection seats and the crew can survive.

You'd think that with their mission profile being almost 100% low altitude work the air force would use ejection seats capable of saving the crew. These aircraft need to be scrapped. How many more pilots and crew need to be killed because of these ancient things. Really frustrating to see this happen again.

#4521349 - 05/18/20 07:27 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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I thought I read somewhere earlier today that the Tutor DID have zero-zero seats, which surprised me.

Edit:

http://www.canadianflight.org/content/canadair-ct-114-tutor

" The cabin is pressurized and zero-level ejection seats are fitted. "

Last edited by F4UDash4; 05/18/20 07:34 PM.

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#4521352 - 05/18/20 07:55 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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Looks like the second pilot will survive. I am not clear if both pilots ejected. There were two explosions seen, but would one be the canopy ?
Pilot who landed on roof of house expected to live

#4521353 - 05/18/20 07:59 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbirds#Aircraft_replacement

Quote
The Government of Canada plans to replace the Tutors with new aircraft between 2026 and 2035, with a preliminary estimated cost of $500 million to $1.5 billion. Official sources were quoted: "The chosen platform must be configurable to the 431 (AD) Squadron standard, including a smoke system, luggage capability and a unique paint scheme. The platform must also be interchangeable with the training fleet to ensure the hard demands of show performances can be distributed throughout the aircraft fleet." The objective of the Snowbird Aircraft Replacement Project is "to satisfy the operational requirement to provide the mandated Government of Canada aerobatic air demonstration capability to Canadian and North American audiences."

An April 2018 air force document mentioned that until a decision is made on replacement, the Snowbird Tutors will receive modernized avionics to comply with regulations. Upgrading work will begin in 2022. The new avionics will permit the team to continue flying in North America and allow the Tutors to fly until 2030.

#4521356 - 05/18/20 08:22 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Why did his chute not open?

I've got some angry questions floating around in my head right now. That video is a whole bunch of wrong.



One chute evidently did (just behind the hill) . . . remember, there are two seats ejecting in that shot.

Not sure what exact type of ejection seats the Tudor has, but most 60's-era seats/chute take a few seconds to go through their full cycle The crew ejected with the aircraft looking like it was 60+ degree nose down and accelerating down . . . that is a pretty tough regime for any ejection seat at low altitude, even newer ACES II.

My question would be why did pilots pitch up and bank into an apparent stall? A quick zoom climb to trade what little airspeed you have left for altitude would make sense, but you need to eject at the top of the climb, before the aircraft starts sinking (or stalls/rolls) to give the ejection seat and chute the best chance. I am curious if they suffered some sort of control failure along with the engine failure, were trying to make the field (which it seems they had no where near enough energy to accomplish), were trying to avoid some sort of populated area in front of them, or got heads down trying to restart the engines.

Originally Posted by WangoTango
Looks like the second pilot will survive. I am not clear if both pilots ejected. There were two explosions seen, but would one be the canopy ?
Pilot who landed on roof of house expected to live


I think that is both seats (presumably rocket motors under both). Depending on the aircraft, canopies use explosive bolts or (is some older aircraft) just unlatch and fall away. Again, at the risk of being corrected by someone specifically familiar with the Tudor's ejection system, I doubt the canopy jettison would create that much visible smoke and flame.

Last edited by Nimits; 05/18/20 08:27 PM.
#4521357 - 05/18/20 08:26 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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surprised no one has posted this yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Og_7sqU7s
1st comment says 0-60 seat not zero zero]


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#4521359 - 05/18/20 08:35 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: Nimits]  
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Originally Posted by Nimits


My question would be why did pilots pitch up and bank into an apparent stall? A quick zoom climb to trade what little airspeed you have left for altitude would make sense, but you need to eject at the top of the climb, before the aircraft starts sinking (or stalls/rolls) to give the ejection seat and chute the best chance. I am curious if they suffered some sort of control failure along with the engine failure, were trying to make the field (which it seems they had no where near enough energy to accomplish), were trying to avoid some sort of populated area in front of them, or got heads down trying to restart the engines.



Just my suspicion but he may have been trying to get the aircraft pointed in the best direction to avoid collateral damage on the ground before punching out. Had they initiated the ejection sequence before the roll and decent the pilot would probably have survived (assuming the seat functioned properly).


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#4521360 - 05/18/20 08:42 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: bolox]  
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Originally Posted by bolox

1st comment says 0-60 seat not zero zero]



That is pretty normal for jets of that era. The system probably depends on the 60 knot speed to pull the canopy away and/or deploy the chute. The seats work pretty well in most regimes, as long as you do not try to bail out in a high speed descent at extremely low level (see the video of Czar 52, where chute actually deploys as the left wing is impacting the ground, before being sucked back into the fireball).

#4521373 - 05/18/20 10:24 PM Re: Canadian Snowbird aircraft crashes in Kamloops B.C. [Re: WangoTango]  
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Good find bolox.

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