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#4521195 - 05/17/20 01:51 PM OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning  
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ArisFuser Offline
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If this becomes a reality and this level of detail is possible without huge investment....Well, I am 100% sold.


#4521197 - 05/17/20 02:40 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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That would be fantastic. Is it even a remote possibility?

#4521201 - 05/17/20 02:59 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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If you want the full package it will be on a subscription fee...

#4521202 - 05/17/20 03:12 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Subscription fee?....For aerial photo data,real weather ...?Would you care to elaborate on your view on that?

#4521222 - 05/17/20 06:13 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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#4521230 - 05/17/20 07:39 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Originally Posted by ArisFuser
Subscription fee?....For aerial photo data,real weather ...?Would you care to elaborate on your view on that?


This is from the Virtual Pilot 3D 2020 site, comparing the two sims..
''For example, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 costs $199 – not cheap. What makes it worse is that Microsoft charge extra to give you access to all of the aircraft or airports available on their simulator. ''

#4521233 - 05/17/20 08:24 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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ArisFuser Offline
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Umm, I´d say Virtual Pilot 3D 2020 is pure spam and scam.

#4521235 - 05/17/20 09:40 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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I will say one thing about this...

If this is really what the new version of FS is going to be like... If you are a pilot, a virtual pilot or someone that always wanted to learn to fly/own a plane... This would be worth dedicating the money into building a home simulator around this level of detail. Even if it cost you over 5k to do.

Owning a GenAv in any metropolitan area is very expensive when you add in all the extra costs involved. It costs roughy 10-12k to get your PP ticket just to do some basic VFR tooling around...and rental on top of that is now beyond a working man's reach.

I'd find an old fuselage to a 152 or Warrior, cut the front off and dedicate an entire area of my basement just to build a reputable home simulator for this level of sim detail.


The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4521242 - 05/17/20 10:47 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Wow. I can already smell my graphics card melting playing this


I got fired as the door man at a sperm bank.
Apparently it's in poor taste to tell leaving customers "Thanks for coming."

Former U.S. Army Medic - SGT.
#4521261 - 05/18/20 05:25 AM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: Trooper117]  
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
If you want the full package it will be on a subscription fee...



Read recently that this isn't the case - no subscriptions (developers addressing subscription rumors debunked it) - just can't find it at the moment...


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
#4521276 - 05/18/20 10:30 AM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: Redwolf]  
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Originally Posted by Redwolf


Read recently that this isn't the case - no subscriptions (developers addressing subscription rumors debunked it) - just can't find it at the moment...


That's good news then!

#4521299 - 05/18/20 01:22 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Originally Posted by jakethescot1
That would be fantastic. Is it even a remote possibility?

Originally Posted by AceMedic88
Wow. I can already smell my graphics card melting playing this

Is it possible to have that level of detail without a huge investment? Well, define "huge"...it really means very different things to different people. Some have no problem dropping $2000+ on a new system, and in that case I think I'd be very ticked off if the performance wasn't great. Some can only afford to scratch together a few hundred bucks over several years; it becomes a far greater challenge but isn't impossible.

There are a few things to consider. If we believe in published system requirements, they are actually somewhat conservative at the entry point for this sim. Here's what I found:

Microsoft Flight Simulator minimum specs
CPU: Ryzen 3 1200 / Intel i5-4460
GPU: Radeon RX 570 / NVIDIA GTX 770
VRAM: 2GB
RAM: 8GB
HDD: 150GB
Bandwidth: 5 Mbps

Microsoft Flight Simulator recommended specs

CPU: Ryzen 5 1500X / Intel i5-8400
GPU: Radeon RX 590 / Nvidia GTX 970
VRAM: 4GB
RAM: 16GB
HDD: 150GB
Bandwidth: 20 Mbps

Microsoft Flight Simulator ideal specs

CPU: Ryzen 7 Pro 2700X / Intel i7-9800X
GPU: Radeon VII / Nvidia RTX 2080
VRAM: 8GB
RAM: 32GB
HDD: 150GB (SSD recommended)
Bandwidth: 50 Mbps

So...the minimum is an i5-4460/GTX770 setup, with 8G RAM. Most anyone already playing WOFF might be able to meet this requirement. A 3rd-gen i7 (like a 3770) and GTX780 will slightly exceed the minimum. Although it's important to recognize this is a 'minimum', systems like this can be had for around $500+.

Even the 'recommended' spec is only an i5-8400/GTX970. The 3rd-gen i7 in the prior example will fall back a bit by comparison, but it's an i7, and is still within ~82% of the i5-8400 specified for 'recommended'. A high-end 4th gen i7 is close to this level (like a 4790k, especially with a good overclock). Also, the GTX970 is a funny card; they have 4G of memory but there are known issues with using anything over 3.5G, which sets a kind of 'artificial limit' on memory usage. Otherwise, the 970 is a bit ahead of a 780, which has 3G (BTW 3G is more than enough for gaming at 1080p resolution). Systems like this can be found in the $700-1000 range.

The stated 'ideal' system is aimed at high performance, but is obviously going to be a lot more expensive (the CPU and GPU combined are currently ~$1400, and the balance of the system would likely run you up toward $2000+)

Now, there's plenty of room for debate about what exactly 'minimum requirements' means. For one, game developers sometimes under-specify, in an effort to sell more copies - but this often leads to a lot of disappointment among the users with low-end systems. Sometimes, developers lean toward the high-end, to make sure their published 'minimum' will actually perform reasonably. By turning down graphics options, and using lower resolution (1080 instead of 1440+, for example), the game can be 'playable' on conservative systems. "Playable", though, is also subjective...

Broadly and generally, 'playable' means a frame rate of at least 30FPS. That's what many consoles use, and isn't far from the rate that motion pictures still use. So 30FPS is playable, especially if it's stable; it can be fairly smooth if it's not bouncing around a lot. Obviously, a stable 60FPS would be better, but this is where you start running into more and more cost; as frame rate goes up, cost increases as well.

Whether a particular publisher under- or over-states system requirements on any given title is anyone's guess. And this game is still not released, so they could change. But, at least for now, that's what Microsoft says about system requirements, and that's what system requirements are for (at least in theory biggrin )

Also, the video (in the first post) was discussing 4k if I'm looking at it correctly; that would look very impressive for sure, but the cost to drive 4k at a high frame rate and refresh rate could put you well past $3000 and toward 4000 (by adding a 4k monitor with a high refresh rate, especially depending on the size). So, you obviously can't get that same level of performance for <$1000.

Hopefully that adds some perspective.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 05/18/20 01:39 PM.
#4521316 - 05/18/20 03:26 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Quote
Hopefully that adds some perspective


Definitely does.

I am on the verge of upgrading my PC at the moment. But I may wait until FS2020 is released and real feedback is provided by users. Microsoft Recommended specs have always been debatable. I would like to have 2 monitors and a fluid framerate but the investment in top end hardware is high. "Just" an Intel i7-9800X+ Nvidia RTX 2080 is already 1400, and without even knowing if "Ideal" specs are ...ideal,...I think is wiser to step on the brakes and wait. Anyway, if Microsoft eventually deliver what it looks to be a huge leap forward in simulation, investment in hardware is assured in my case.

Last edited by ArisFuser; 05/18/20 03:28 PM.
#4521318 - 05/18/20 03:37 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by ArisFuser
Quote
Hopefully that adds some perspective


Definitely does.

I am on the verge of upgrading my PC at the moment. But I may wait until FS2020 is released and real feedback is provided by users. Microsoft Recommended specs have always been debatable. I would like to have 2 monitors and a fluid framerate but the investment in top end hardware is high. "Just" an Intel i7-9800X+ Nvidia RTX 2080 is already 1400, and without even knowing if "Ideal" specs are ...ideal,...I think is wiser to step on the brakes and wait. Anyway, if Microsoft eventually deliver what it looks to be a huge leap forward in simulation, investment in hardware is assured in my case.


One definite benefit to your approach: The hardware typically gets cheaper as time goes on. For example, Intel's 10-series processors are imminent, making the 9-series yesterday's news; the effect tends to cascade down through all successive generations of hardware.

#4521319 - 05/18/20 03:45 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Yes, both Intel and Nvidia are about to release their new ridiculously expensive toys soon, so I hope both i9´s and Nvidia 2080s will be reasonable priced around end of Summer. I was checking some AMD Intel comparisons too, and latest Ryzens are way cheaper for the same performance...

Last edited by ArisFuser; 05/18/20 03:49 PM.
#4521645 - 05/20/20 07:17 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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It looks impressive, but I'm not sure about the level of historic aircraft to be offered. It looks like modern planes at this point. And I was surprised to see some stuttering on that one video of the landing approach. The last general purpose flight sim I bought was FS 2004, which had a fair number of historic aircraft and some add-ons. I'm not putting up any money on FS 2020 unless I see an effort to include historic aircraft like the Curtiss Jenny, DH Tigermoth, maybe a WW1 scout, and maybe something WW2 like a P-40 or the like.

#4521734 - 05/21/20 11:12 AM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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And I wonder if it will allow air combat.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4521737 - 05/21/20 11:25 AM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: Polovski]  
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Originally Posted by Polovski
And I wonder if it will allow air combat.


Agreed. If it allows WWI air combat, I will be very interested. Until then, it's cool but I don't personally have an interest in it.

In semi-related news, I read (below) that Epic is not going to charge any royalties for other devs using their new Unreal 5 Engine until the game or sim makes at least $1 million. So it's free to use up front and now Indie devs also pay no royalties for using it unless or until the game makes a million dollars. That could do a lot for the industry.

https://www.pcgamer.com/unreal-engi...ties-on-their-first-dollar1m-in-revenue/

Here is a video of the Unreal 5 engine rending in-game environments on the upcoming Playstation 5. It looks amazing. I figured it was going to be awesome for 1st person shooters, etc but at about 7:40 in the demo, they talk about (and show) rendering limitless polygons and dynamic lighting all the way to the horizon. I'm sure it's all very complicated behind the curtain but imagine the potential.

Hey Polovski, how long until all the WOFF 2020 assets are imported in? I'm guessing around "two weeks?" wink



Last edited by Hellshade; 05/21/20 01:50 PM.

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#4521761 - 05/21/20 02:23 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: ArisFuser]  
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I hope it does NOT offer air combat. This is a civilian sim with modern scenery/buildings/airports. As a RL pilot, I like *flying*. This will scratch that itch. Maybe later they'll release a combat version, as they did in the 90s. For now, gimme a Cessna 172 or 182 and it's time to shoot some approaches, then fly around Hawaii.

#4521764 - 05/21/20 02:57 PM Re: OT: FS2020...Simply Stunning [Re: JFM]  
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Originally Posted by JFM
I hope it does NOT offer air combat. This is a civilian sim with modern scenery/buildings/airports. As a RL pilot, I like *flying*. This will scratch that itch. Maybe later they'll release a combat version, as they did in the 90s. For now, gimme a Cessna 172 or 182 and it's time to shoot some approaches, then fly around Hawaii.


Same here. I miss being able to use real flight simulators and the opportunity to actually fly, which is what got me started in PC-based simulators to begin with.

And I'd go a step further and say there's a far greater audience for GA than for a combat-specific version (which, just as you suggested, might give them a footing for a combat sim - as has been done previously).

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