Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 12 1 2 3 4 11 12
#4519480 - 05/04/20 06:03 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,969
wormfood Online content
Member
wormfood  Online Content
Member

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,969
Texas
The Sherman was also one of the very few tanks to fight in every theater of war. It was in Western Europe, Russia, North Africa, Italy, and all over the Pacific.It was able to handle all sorts of climates and ground conditions. Really, for the Allies, it was kind of the perfect tank. One vehicle that could be mass produced and exported all over the world... and work with few, if any, maintenance issues when it got there.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4519492 - 05/04/20 07:05 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Nixer Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Nixer  Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Living with the Trees
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
Ton of interesting World War II videos on that Mark Felton YT channel. Thank you Nixer.


You are welcome. I watched about 20 yesterday.

So, German Tanks vs Shermans.

Yes, the Firefly was a MkIV, Panther and Tiger killer. I believe that the Brits only had like one per troop?

Even ignoring Wittman's vicious romp at Villiers Bocage, in the big armored battles around Caen the Sherman losses were horrifying.

The Allies "aluminum overcast" was far more a danger to German armor than hordes of allied shermans.

Another topical Felton video:



Censored

Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet.
I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4519493 - 05/04/20 07:09 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,340
Lieste Offline
Senior Member
Lieste  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,340
Allied aircraft did little vs tanks and other armour. They were effective vs softskins and very light armour though.

Allied artillery and operational attrition were far more significant. (OA is breakdowns and terrain casualties or lack or parts or fuel to recover all vehicles because of unavailability or loss of and on softskins).

#4519495 - 05/04/20 07:09 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Online Centaurian
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,383
Miami, FL USA
Originally Posted by Nixer


The Allies "aluminum overcast" was far more a danger to German armor than hordes of allied shermans.





So was the overwhelming Allied naval shore bombardment during the early phases of Normandy.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4519496 - 05/04/20 07:12 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
"The Sherman was also one of the very few tanks to fight in every theater of war. "

Transportability was one the biggest assets of the M4 series. The U.S had to build tanks that could be loaded aboard ships and carried to the battlefield. The Germans didn't have to worry about that. For the U.S. Army's needs, the Sherman was really just about the perfect tank.
As far as the Tiger is concerned, American tank units didn't come up against them very much. The British Army, unfortunately, did. The section of Normandy in which the U.S. was advancing was not good country for Tigers. The British sector, farther north, was, however. Flatter, wide open fields with no hedgerows. That's where that German Tigers had a field day against British tank units.
It isn't fair, really, to match the Sherman up against the Tiger and say that the Sherman was an inferior vehicle. Read up on the tank battles the occurred in the Lorraine region of France in September of 1944. Shermans against Panthers, and the Panthers got their asses thoroughly kicked.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4519497 - 05/04/20 07:13 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 6,529
NoFlyBoy Offline
Hotshot
NoFlyBoy  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 6,529
I have been playing Panzer General and you can play as German, Italian, American, British, Canadian, Poles, Czech, even Ethiopia and what was then Yugoslavia and the more you advance in the war from 1939 on, the more prestige you earn and it opens up access to newer better tank.

One of the British tank that I was able to get later was the Crocodile. I didn't know it was a flamethrower until the first time I used it against a Tiger II and it had no effect.


[Linked Image]
#4519511 - 05/04/20 07:57 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Nixer Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Nixer  Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17,301
Living with the Trees
Now here's Felton again, this time showing how after Normandy and the continuing meat grinder of the eastern front, the attrition of Germany's experienced tankers was really coming into play.

Arracourt in September 1944:



Censored

Look for me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or Tic Toc...or anywhere you may frequent, besides SimHq, on the Global Scam Net. Aka, the internet.
I am not there, never have been or ever will be, but the fruitless search may be more gratifying then the "content" you might otherwise be exposed to.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4519519 - 05/04/20 08:22 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Alicatt Offline
Hotshot
Alicatt  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,534
Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
I have been playing Panzer General and you can play as German, Italian, American, British, Canadian, Poles, Czech, even Ethiopia and what was then Yugoslavia and the more you advance in the war from 1939 on, the more prestige you earn and it opens up access to newer better tank.

One of the British tank that I was able to get later was the Crocodile. I didn't know it was a flamethrower until the first time I used it against a Tiger II and it had no effect.


A nice bit of British Patriotism and talk of the effectiveness of the Crocodile


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpIoqyjWvzI

and a tale of ATGs in the dessert


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJRd_XiDGg


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4519532 - 05/04/20 09:26 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,735
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,735
SC
Felton is great, another good one is The History Guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4sEmXUuWIFlxRIFBRV6VXQ


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4519543 - 05/04/20 10:01 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,105
Chucky Online sosad
Veteran
Chucky  Online Sosad
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,105
UK
The History Guy is good,I just find he speaks too fast or not clearly enough at times.


EV's are the Devils matchbox.
#4519994 - 05/07/20 01:44 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Pooch]  
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 45
Fidd Offline
Junior Member
Fidd  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 45
UK
Originally Posted by Pooch
"The Sherman was also one of the very few tanks to fight in every theater of war. "

Transportability was one the biggest assets of the M4 series. The U.S had to build tanks that could be loaded aboard ships and carried to the battlefield. The Germans didn't have to worry about that. For the U.S. Army's needs, the Sherman was really just about the perfect tank.
As far as the Tiger is concerned, American tank units didn't come up against them very much. The British Army, unfortunately, did. The section of Normandy in which the U.S. was advancing was not good country for Tigers. The British sector, farther north, was, however. Flatter, wide open fields with no hedgerows. That's where that German Tigers had a field day against British tank units.
It isn't fair, really, to match the Sherman up against the Tiger and say that the Sherman was an inferior vehicle. Read up on the tank battles the occurred in the Lorraine region of France in September of 1944. Shermans against Panthers, and the Panthers got their asses thoroughly kicked.


This I fully agree with. The other aspect affecting US tank design was the recognition that as force that was to be attacking, in strategic terms, there was an assumption that the Germans would always blow bridges over water-obstacles. This severely limited the overall weight, as it was a given that US tanks would have to use pontoon or Bailey Bridges. The Germans were under no such limitation from '42 onwards, allowing them to make heavier vehicles with better armour protection, larger size and turret-rings, and therefore heavier weapons.

In other words, the Sherman was optimised for transport to distant theatres, and for repair without returning it to the USA; and also to be able to continue advances despite the destruction of permament bridges.
As such, it was an excellent design.

#4520014 - 05/07/20 03:02 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,969
wormfood Online content
Member
wormfood  Online Content
Member

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,969
Texas
It also used a regular gasoline engine making logistics way easier. It was also very survivable with only around a 2% KIA and usually only 1 dead crew member when a tank was destroyed. That was actually pretty good and I think only the Churchill was more survivable than the Sherman.
That said, it was very easy for German armor and ATs to knock them out and I'm glad I don't have to fight in one.

#4520016 - 05/07/20 03:16 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,213
UK
A radial engine is not your 'regular' gasoline type engine... lol!

#4520020 - 05/07/20 03:34 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,340
Lieste Offline
Senior Member
Lieste  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,340
Radial petrol engines were only one type used, they also had options for diesel engines and a double bank of truck engines.

#4520024 - 05/07/20 03:52 PM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 6,529
NoFlyBoy Offline
Hotshot
NoFlyBoy  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 6,529
I can be all day watching those WW2 YouTube videos. Better than anything on TV.


[Linked Image]
#4520091 - 05/08/20 01:29 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: NoFlyBoy]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Ajay Offline
newbie
Ajay  Offline
newbie
Veteran

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Brisbane OZ
Originally Posted by NoFlyBoy
I can be all day watching those WW2 YouTube videos. Better than anything on TV.


Youtube has been better than TV for a long time now. It's like it doesn't know how to die despite being beaten to a bloody mashed up pulp by so many other platforms. If you do insist on being bored sh/tless though, all the major news channel have a YT channel as well. One of the best things is that nearly all of the good shows that were on TV back in the day are also stashed away on YT if you want s nostalgia trip.

As for guys like Felton, Drachnifel and tons of others that cover from the caveman era to current, they have really upped the game regards historical based content. I've been on a cold war kick for a bit now regards content and YT has been a dream for finding specific stuff like certain planes, vehicles, tactics, strategies, weapons, beliefs, politics and everything in between.

With so much content you can really nail down a great picture by using so many different sources instead of the old back in day History Channel stuff like - ' Tiger tank, big gun, much scare, kills all'


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
Cliffs of Dover page
CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#4520092 - 05/08/20 01:32 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Alicatt]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Ajay Offline
newbie
Ajay  Offline
newbie
Veteran

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,381
Brisbane OZ
Originally Posted by Alicatt


A nice bit of British Patriotism and talk of the effectiveness of the Crocodile


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpIoqyjWvzI

and a tale of ATGs in the dessert


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJRd_XiDGg


Lindybeige is awesome, love his content.


My il2 page
Seelowe Campaign
Cliffs of Dover page
CloD
My Models
Tanks/Planes/Ships


#4520599 - 05/12/20 04:22 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,338
W-Molders Offline
Member
W-Molders  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,338
I.E. Commiefornia ..S.B Count...
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
The Sherman was WWII's best tank.


LOL


[Signature deleted]
#4520697 - 05/13/20 01:51 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: Nixer]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,304
WOLF257 Offline
Professional Cynic
WOLF257  Offline
Professional Cynic
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,304
Alabama
And one point nobody has really mentioned is that the Sherman was designed as an infantry support tank and was never intended to fight other tanks.

The US doctrine at the time was to use the M4 to support the infantry and the tank destroyers to fight enemy tanks.

There was even some pushback to the notion of equipping the M4 with the 76mm gun because it was felt US crews would go looking for enemy tanks which was not what they were supposed to be doing.


WOLF

You are what you do when it counts

I will do terrible things to protect myself and all that I've worked for.
But even in your deepest, darkest nightmares you can't imagine the horrific things I'll do to protect my family.

#4520715 - 05/13/20 09:39 AM Re: Two Panthers take on 21 Shermans [Re: W-Molders]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,735
F4UDash4 Online cool
Veteran
F4UDash4  Online Cool
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 13,735
SC
Originally Posted by W-Molders
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
The Sherman was WWII's best tank.


LOL



Thank you for your informed and well thought out reply.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
Page 2 of 12 1 2 3 4 11 12

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0