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#4519780 - 05/06/20 11:22 AM Airfields locations  
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xjouve Offline
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I'm carrying out relocation of airfields in global_layers, (1) for better compatibility of my river and landcover mods, and (2) to get an even more accurate experience.

I've already done quite a lot. What can be said is that most airfields are already pretty well located so I only had to make slight changes. However, there are some cases for which I have questions. Initially, I started my work on stock global_layers, but finally I decided to use those of JJJ65's mod in an effort to get a good compatibility with it by addressing the proper objects. smile

What follows must be seen as, if I'm not mistaken... smile

Filescamps / Izel-lès-Hameau

In global_layers, one can find at the same time Filescamp (sic Filescamps) and Izel Les Hameaux (sic Izel-lès-Hameau). First observation, Filescamps is located too far on the north (3.5 to 4km), and second, both airfields are most likely the same one to me. AFAIK, Izel-lès-Hameau airfield was in fact located on the northern side of the road connecting Le Hameau and Filescamps Farm (cf picture below)

[Linked Image]

source: anciens-aerodromes.com/?p=23531

So, is there a mistake here? Anybody knows?

I might have more questions.





Last edited by xjouve; 05/06/20 11:28 AM.

Best Regards,
Xav.
#4519792 - 05/06/20 12:02 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Xjouve

I created the custom mod for these two airfields and they are co-located on the north side of the road with a representation of izel town just west of Izel field. Filscamp farm is east of Filscamp airfield an there is an extension of filescamp field on the north side of the farm. All airfields are adjoining as per historical reference that I had.

Some artistic license was used regarding accurate gps location because the original roads and town were not accurately represented and had to be compromised for appearance.

Hope that helps.


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#4519795 - 05/06/20 12:07 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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xjouve Offline
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Thanks! Of course, it helps a lot. Well, I'm gonna let them as they are in the files. smile


Best Regards,
Xav.
#4519801 - 05/06/20 12:21 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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One other note for you Xjouve. The original airfields placement in WOFF did not locate them close to any roads and many times you would find the airfield isolated in a forest or a field with no visible access roads.
I worked on relocating them to give them road access. OBD then incorporated the new global_layers.
The weak point is that accurate historical placement of the airfields is compromised by the fact that the roads and towns are not accurately placed.


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#4519802 - 05/06/20 12:45 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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I too worked long and hard on the airfield locations and in fact, after adding dozens of needed aerodromes to England, located all to tie into existing roads and/or highways in an effort to get them to look like they belonged there, rather than just being plopped into the landscape. I also gave a hand to Robert with his project of doing the same along the Western Front but had to bow out of that job due to RL commitments at the time.

I also created a new facility tile for the factories along the Western Front and relocated all of those to tie into existing roads as well, and those changes were added to WOFF UE quite some time ago.

That's the thing about modding this sim, you change one thing and suddenly you have to change ten others to get it all looking right again. biggrin


Lou

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#4519809 - 05/06/20 01:00 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Lou, my bad, I forgot to mention your efforts and they were not small by any means. My apologies Sir.


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#4519810 - 05/06/20 01:06 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Originally Posted by xjouve
Thanks! Of course, it helps a lot. Well, I'm gonna let them as they are in the files. smile


Xjouve, I have no objection to you relocating them if you are willing to keep them oriented to each other such that shared rods on the tiles are not disonnected. I am currently working on Phalempin airfield and I can send you the global layer data I have for that or the incomplete mod if you wish. Just PM me.

Best Regards


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#4519811 - 05/06/20 01:06 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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xjouve Offline
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Indeed gentlemen!

FYI I own data with all roads, and all railways for the frontline... I'll try to make all this working ingame. smile


Best Regards,
Xav.
#4519812 - 05/06/20 01:07 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
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xjouve Offline
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Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Originally Posted by xjouve
Thanks! Of course, it helps a lot. Well, I'm gonna let them as they are in the files. smile


Xjouve, I have no objection to you relocating them if you are willing to keep them oriented to each other such that shared rods on the tiles are not disonnected. I am currently working on Phalempin airfield and I can send you the global layer data I have for that or the incomplete mod if you wish. Just PM me.

Best Regards


Great ! smile I'll send you a PM


Best Regards,
Xav.
#4519816 - 05/06/20 01:15 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Lou, my bad, I forgot to mention your efforts and they were not small by any means. My apologies Sir.

No worries Robert. smile2


Originally Posted by xjouve
Indeed gentlemen!
FYI I own data with all roads, and all railways for the frontline... I'll try to make all this working ingame. smile

Xav, that would be super, but unless you have a magic bit of software that will align those many, many airfields for you, (not to mention factories and depots), it will require each one being reoriented along the compass, relocated in the landscape, and having elevations tweaked, one at a time in the global layer files. It's a massive task, just so you know.

.

#4519818 - 05/06/20 01:17 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: RAF_Louvert]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Originally Posted by RAF_Louvert
.

Originally Posted by Robert_Wiggins
Lou, my bad, I forgot to mention your efforts and they were not small by any means. My apologies Sir.

No worries Robert. smile2


Originally Posted by xjouve
Indeed gentlemen!
FYI I own data with all roads, and all railways for the frontline... I'll try to make all this working ingame. smile

Xav, that would be super, but unless you have a magic bit of software that will align those many, many airfields for you, it will require each one being reoriented along the compass, relocated in the landscape, and having elevations tweaked, one at a time in the global layer files. It's a massive task, just so you know.

.

I agree 100%


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#4519845 - 05/06/20 02:51 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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xjouve Offline
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Since yesterday evening, I've been checked about 300 airfields for relocation. It's a bit tiresome, but well, I'm making progress. smile

New question, about Brayelles airfield, which is located N50*10'57.0002 E3*06'26.5002 ingame. I can't find evidence for this one to be located there. However, 1 out of the 3 airfields located aroung Douai was indeed named La Brayelle. It was the largest and oldest. So, this leads me to believe that ingame airfields Douai and Brayelle are in reality the same one. If I'm not mistaken, then location should be 50°22'3.50"N 3°2'3.66"E.

Any thoughts?

[Linked Image]

Last edited by xjouve; 05/06/20 04:40 PM.

Best Regards,
Xav.
#4519852 - 05/06/20 03:39 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Originally Posted by xjouve
Since yesterday evening, I've been checked about 400 airfields for relocation. It's a bit tiresome, but well, I'm making progress. smile

New question, about Brayelles airfield, which is located N50*10'57.0002 E3*06'26.5002 ingame. I can't find evidence for this one to be located there. However, 1 out of the 3 airfields located aroung Douai was indeed named La Brayelle. It was the largest and oldest. So, this leads me to believe that ingame airfields Douai and Brayelle are in reality the same one. If I'm not mistaken, then location should be 50°22'3.50"N 3°2'3.66"E.

Any thoughts?

[Linked Image]


That's a question for RAF_Louvert. That's his creation.

Best Regards


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#4519855 - 05/06/20 03:47 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Nope, not one of mine Robert.

.

#4519856 - 05/06/20 03:53 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
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Ok, My mistake. It's not one of mine custom airfields so it must be OBD's. XJouve you would have to ask Polovski about Douai and Brayelles I suppose. The location as I stated before is the result of the relocation of all the airfields to place them within access of a road.


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#4521108 - 05/16/20 04:08 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Gentlemen, one related note: I have a pilot in RFC 29 stationed at Izel in April 1917. I had to uninstall Robert's excellent mod because the AI were completely confused and were never able to land. Instead they just circled the field(s) endlessly.


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#4521124 - 05/16/20 06:40 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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Did you try moving the "landing waypoint" over the airfiled in Mission Editor to see if that will solve it? It's the last waypoint line.

#4521168 - 05/17/20 03:21 AM Re: Airfields locations [Re: orbyxP]  
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Originally Posted by orbyxP
Did you try moving the "landing waypoint" over the airfiled in Mission Editor to see if that will solve it? It's the last waypoint line.


No, good idea!


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#4525340 - 06/13/20 01:59 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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xjouve Offline
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Anyone have information about Saint-Mard airfield? Stock location is wrong, but I can't figure out where this drome was.

Here's stock location, appearing 8 times during the war. Main problem is that Grub Street book "The Jasta Pilots", which I believe has been OBD source, is wrong regarding the location of the airfield. Indeed, this was well inside allied territory during most of the war. According to TJP, Saint-Mard airfield was used by Ja 21 and 23, by the time they belong to the 7th army.

[Linked Image]

JASTA 23B

As per my researches, Jasta 23b wasn't assigned to 7th Army (WOFF Marne) between late 1917 and early 1918 instead of what TJP reads. However, after looking at their victories during this period, it is no doubt that the unit was assigned to 5th Army (WOFF Verdun).

So, my guess is that there was a field at Saint-Mard S of Virton, which is located N of Verdun. The presence of a drome here is confirmed for WW2, but I haven't been able to see any info regarding WW1. Anyway, Chenois airfield is also next to Virton, meaning that the place was indeed used for planes.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

JASTA 21

With this squadron we have another problem. Jasta 21 was indeed posted to Reims area; which was part of 7th Army sector. Their victories confirm this without ambiguity. However, although I'm pretty confident to say that Jasta 23b was in Virton/Saint-Mard, it looks very unlikely that Jasta 21 has also been based there... 100km+ from Reims! biggrin

[Linked Image]






Last edited by xjouve; 06/13/20 02:10 PM.

Best Regards,
Xav.
#4525344 - 06/13/20 02:16 PM Re: Airfields locations [Re: xjouve]  
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xjouve Offline
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EUREKA!

99% sure Jasta 21 has been based at Saint-Masmes and not Saint-Mard. This very area next to Reims was full of German dromes. Added to my collection!

[Linked Image]

So, I'm going to relocate Saint-Mard from stock location to Virton/Saint-Mard for proper use by Jasta 23b... But Jasta 21 needs a new drome.


Last edited by xjouve; 06/13/20 02:17 PM.

Best Regards,
Xav.
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